New Grant School??!!!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee

I have to think the BOE/Grant School property is worth far more than the same amount of acreage at Kaufman Park. After all Warren Road is in the middle of LakewoodAlive's "DowntowN" footprint which is supported by the city, and the hospital. Kaufman Park, is at the very edge and well out of the footprint.

Which would be easier to get to for office workers. A shiny tall office building at the entrance to LakewoodAlive's "DowntowN" or to hide it away 10 block farther down the road.

Maybe the schools could make a deal to get the BOE a floor in the new building?

That would certainly sweeten the package. I doubt that anything is yet sealed in stone as we have heard nothing publicly.

As I have pointed out, Lincoln torn down for homes is exazctly what was presented at the first LakewoodAlive meeting. I would have to think LakewoodAlive would love to take credit for this.

FWIW


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[Dee Martinez]

Thats fine and your hip shooting finger-in-the-wind opinion is as good as mine.
Wheres the beef? You and others were all over the "peninsula" and not one person in the public or private sector showed a second of interest or committed a dollar to even looking at it.
Whose responsibility is it to chase someones "idea"?
I support the BOE in its efforts to follow the path it has intelligently followed for the last 8 years.
If you want to take a different path thats your business.

[Jim O'Bryan]

You and others were all over the "peninsula" and not one person in the public or private sector showed a second of interest or committed a dollar to even looking at it.

Dee

This statement is no true. Many people looked at it including the city. The city after their time with it incorporated some of the ideas into their study which had concluded when we printed the peninsula.

There were many people that stopped by the office to see the entire presentation. The the project went on the road to city hall, the planning department, and developers.

The truth of the matter, if she had a different name, I think we would be watching it being built. That is how petty some of this stuff is.



FWIW


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[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee

I was an advocate for the Peninsula, but that is because I was able to see all of it firsthand. The reactions, the comments, and why some comments were made. I also watched many professional come through the office to see it. Savannah needed space to display it and I glad gave her the space. Anyone to say it was not practical, or affordable was just wrong. There were reasons not to build it. Legitimate one, that I did not see outweighing the positives. But cost, practical, not viable, at the time were not true.

As for a new school, I am glad to see many people come forward with a plan, and share it with everyone else. This is why the Phase III story is the lead story in the paper. I support the process. Now the question is how can the process not look at this idea? If the Phase III committee looks at this idea I believe it would add to their process.

I do not really have a dog in this discussion. No kids, no grand kids, Might cost too much, Might not be practical, But then again...

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[Dee Martinez]

I am sorry. I did not mean to sidedtrack this discussion by bringing in the peninsula.
Having said that can you also see MY point about sidetracking the Phase 3 process with an eleventh-hour proposal that will involve a
patchwork of city, state, school. and private entities?

The board and the 50 Years Committee has done an admirable job over 8 years creating an intelligent, methodical, and transparent process on a vital local issue. Now someone comes along and says "Lets put on a show in the barn!"
Tens of millions in state money is at stake. Kids are going to school in trailers. This project needs to get done and as its not going to be easy even without all these moving parts.\
We need to keep our eyes on the ball here and I have faith that the board will do just that. I know Kaufman Park is a fun fantasy for you but this isnt the time or the issue.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee


This idea for Kaufman Park is very different than mine.

But it does not matter.

Would you throw away a good and viable idea, just to stay on track?

If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right.

did I say track?


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[Betsy Voinovich]

Hi. I haven't posted much here yet but I felt like I had to step in here. I'm on the Phase III Steering Committee and we have already been asked to make sure we have copies of Meg's article for discussion at our next meeting on April 21st.

I don't want people to get the idea that we aren't STILL SOLICITING IDEAS from the community at large. If you were at the Community Forum, you saw that the last page of the survey everyone was asked to fill out was a blank page asking for each person's individual ideas and suggestions.

We will be looking at all of these, including Meg's, carefully, at our next meeting when we go over all of the survey results.

There are many in the community, like Meg, who would have liked to be on the Steering Committee but can't make the time commitment. That doesn't mean that ideas that members of the community have aren't important to us. That's why we had the first meeting and why we'll have another one in September, if not earlier. THIS IS THE TIME to bring your ideas to the Steering Committee. We meet every two weeks, for two hours. We want to get this right. If you have a good idea, SUBMIT IT TO THE STEERING COMMITTEE. We want to represent ALL of Lakewood. That's the whole point of this thing.

As for Meg's idea, there have been land swaps in this city before and she did talk to the city planning department, and members of the Lakewood City School District before she wrote this to make sure the whole thing wasn't crazy. As for kids waiting in trailers, that's one of the best parts of this plan. Both Grant and Lincoln would stay open the whole time the new school was being built. No housing kids in trailers or in spare churches, or flooding schools with kids until they're over capacity like last time. When the new school is finished, the kids in the redrawn district will go straight from their old schools to their new school.

This brings me to my last point. This isn't a "new Grant" school, as much as I would like it to be, because I am a Grant parent and am very impressed with the family inside the school that has been doing such a good job educating my kids. I'd love to move the school north, intact, with all the same teachers, staff and students, but that's not what will happen, and if it did happen, that wouldn't be fair. This will be a new school, for students from both schools. Look at the half mile circle from the new Kaufman School (the map on the first page of the online Observer) to see where the kids live who would go here. Kids from the center of the city, who would be covered by no school, if Grant closes, will have a beautiful new school with all this space and green fields. Kids from Lincoln who are touched by the Northwest quarter of the circle will also have this beautiful new school with all the green space, a baseball field, a running track? that they lack now.

This is a great idea and if there are any more like it out there, as I said, now's the time. Thank you.

Betsy Voinovich

Phase III Steering Committee Member
Grant Parent

[Charlie Page]

What a great idea! Good job Meg and the Observer for putting it out there.

I haven’t heard any valid reasons why it can’t, at the very least, be considered by the Phase 3 committee.

This is not the eleventh hour. The beginning of Phase 3 has barely scratched the surface. Yes, the overall plan was a good one 8 or so years ago. However, plans should be flexible in case other options like this come along or the State says they’ll pay for 6 but not 7.

A land swap is doable as long as the City and BOE can begin talks and come to an agreement in the near future. The way I see it all sides win. The schools get a better location and the City gets a more commercially viable piece of land. The key is that both sides need to want to do this. Both sides need to see it will be mutually beneficial.

My only concern is the State pulls some funding because we deviated from our original approved plan. I bet they will look for any reason whatsoever to make cuts in these times.

[Danielle Masters]

One point I wanted to make is about the 50 year committee. The 50 year committee did a great job with the first two phases but this is a different Lakewood now. The types of students has changed, the location of students have changed, many variables have changed since the inception of the 50 year committee. And one giant change is the families. 8 years ago many of the parents who are now involved didn't even have children in the schools. Many of the parents who were involved 8 years ago no longer have children in the schools. And that is probably the best part of the new phase III steering committee, it is allowing anyone that wants to be involved be involved. As I said the 50 year committee did a great job and now is the time for the current steering committee to look at what is best for Lakewood's children. So I just want to reiterate this isn't a bashing of the 50 year committee this is just saying that the board has done a great job of making sure that anyone who wants to be involved is now involved.

[Dee Martinez]

Ms. Voinovich.

What of the parents of 400+ Lincoln parents, some of whom will get to haul their kids from Edgewater up to a space in back of Discount Drug Mart? Grant parents will suffer a little inconvenience but many Lincoln parents will have a bunch of it.

This wonderful idea has to get a lot of people on the same page, and that isnt Lakewoods speciality. It will be expensive, complicated, time consumng, and no one can really offer a good reason WHY.
It also doesnt address the issue of Roosevelt. What happens there?
Or the high school. YOUR kids at Grant arent in trailers. MY kid at LHS is. I dont want Phase 3 dragged out.
And whatever deal is struck between the city, schools, state, and private developers Mr Call will be against it.

Is there ANY official support for this or are we just having a good time kicking around another bridge to Canada?

[Dee Martinez]

What a great idea! Good job Meg and the Observer for putting it out there.

I haven’t heard any valid reasons why it can’t, at the very least, be considered by the Phase 3 committee.

I havent heard any valid reasons why it SHOULD be done.

There is a large school which needs to be remodeled, not replaced, in Lincoln.
There is another large school which needs to be remodeled, not replaced, at Grant.

There is no property that needs to be bought or "swapped".
Just fix them, finish the high school, decide what to do about Roosevelt and get it done.
The city gets the Grant and Lincoln properties and we can fight over whether to build shopping centers or condos on those? Grant and Lincoln parents get to fight over whose kid has to walk the farthest?

Truly what is the upside here other than to pat someone on the back and say 'good idea?

[Bill Call]

This is a great idea and if there are any more like it out there, as I said, now's the time. Thank you.

Betsy Voinovich

Phase III Steering Committee Member
Grant Parent

Every once in awhile someone comes along with a really great idea that seems so obivious we are left wondering why no one thought of it before.

A new school at Kaufman Park has the potential to be the most unique, innovative grade school in the region. It is not very often that a built up city like Lakewood has the land to build something really unique.

Make it bigger, bolder and better with as large a footprint as possible. With some cooperation from the City this could be the moral booster the City needs. The bonus is that it opens up the current Grant site, Lincoln and BOE building for development.

I'm reluctantly on board for the next round of tax increases to fininsh phase three. I would be enthusiastically on board to pay a little more for something wonderful. The school board missed on opportunity when bulding Garfield. Let's hope it doesn't happen again.

Do not error on the side of caution.

[Danielle Masters]

Dee there are not 400+ students Lincoln, there are a little under 400. Here are the numbers so we know what we are talking about. I think the placement of the students is important to fully understand why the logistics of closing another school are complicated. It also should be noted than many of the schools with a higher percentage of low income children have a higher number of students that have no transportation to and from school. Anyhow really I don't want to get sucked into this conversation anymore that I already have. So here are the most current numbers from the district.



I just realized part of this was cut off. The ** in front of Grant mean that the champs students are not added into the class counts. For example one of the classes of 28 1st graders is actually a class of 30. The teachers that have champs students (pull out special ed) have to create a separate lesson plan for those students which is a lot of work. Anyhow these teachers of huge classes are doing an excellent job of teaching the kids. My son is in a class of 30 and his teacher is amazing. I wish though her job would be made easier by having a class the size of other classes in other schools throughout the district. Anyhow tangent over. Carry on.

[Charlie Page]

I havent heard any valid reasons why it SHOULD be done.

There is a large school which needs to be remodeled, not replaced, in Lincoln.
There is another large school which needs to be remodeled, not replaced, at Grant.

There is no property that needs to be bought or "swapped".
Just fix them, finish the high school, decide what to do about Roosevelt and get it done.
The city gets the Grant and Lincoln properties and we can fight over whether to build shopping centers or condos on those? Grant and Lincoln parents get to fight over whose kid has to walk the farthest?

Truly what is the upside here other than to pat someone on the back and say 'good idea?

After looking at the map on the front page of the Observer, it's obvious this plan makes sense and should be considered (which is what I said, not that it should be done). Keeping both Grant and Lincoln keeps two schools very close to each other. A more central Kaufman school would serve parts of both districts. The Kaufman school would not be a mega school and redistricting would happen after completion. Some outer edge Lincoln/Grant kids would need to go to schools other than Kaufman. While Kaufman is under construction, Lincoln and Grant kids would still go to their respective schools, no mods/churches/etc needed.

Roosevelt should be kept and remodeled. There is too large of a gap if this school gets decommissioned. This could be the last school remodeled. While the remodel is underway, some would go to Grant (which would be empty because of the Kaufman school) and others would go to Harrison or Hayes.

Building a Kaufman school and remodeling Roosevelt makes the most sense to me. There are fewer gaps between the circles on the Observer map with the Kaufman school in the picture. It’s the fairest option to all and should be considered by the Phase 3 committee, Board and City officials.

The City gets the Grant property. The BOE retains Lincoln which could become the BOE HQ.

I would be willing to add another 20-30 bucks a year to my property taxes to support the additional expense of a new Kaufman school. I’d support whatever bond issue that comes up because, as you stated, Phase 3 needs to get done. However, I’d like to see it done right, fair and equitable for ALL not just the power players or the really squeaky wheels.

[Mike Zannoni]

What a great idea! Good job Meg and the Observer for putting it out there.

I haven’t heard any valid reasons why it can’t, at the very least, be considered by the Phase 3 committee.

I havent heard any valid reasons why it SHOULD be done.

Really?!!! I am new to this forum, but have closely following the issues on school closure/remodeling/rebuilding in Lakewood, as I am moving to Lakewood, whose schools are a major attraction. As a person shopping for a move to Lakewood and as a future taxpayer, I think Meg's idea is certainly valid enough for us and the committee to consider. Obviously many serious people here are already considering it, and therefore should the committee. It would be unseemly for it to be otherwise.

I've heard and seen plenty of reasons in this thread alone (and elsewhere) why it should be considered. ANY plan would meet with objections from some quarters and interests, but I haven't seen as perfect a fit for the largest group of Lakewood students or for Lakewood's future as an inviting, attractive, viable city.

The discussion that Meg's idea is generating is healthy and proper, and the excitement among many diverse people is obvious. Any idea that is this compelling for all of these intelligent people here must have something going for it. (Unless the idea of community involvement is just a farce to make people feel included when they aren't.)

No one here has any interest in simply patting anyone on the back (though we shouldn't take that off the table); to say that the idea is so invalid that it should be dismissed immediately by all on behalf of some former Lincoln students who may have a slightly longer trip still within established walkability range . . . Any school's area will have some students closer and some at the edge. Certainly the Edgewater students in question ought not take priority above all else.

Some here have pointed out that the resulting redistricting from a Kaufman Elementary School would mean that some former Grant students would not even go Kaufman. This redistricting, again, is part of the idea, not a megashool. Maybe the real horror of horrors, however, is that some former Lincoln students would not go to Kaufman Elementary School either, and some would be joined with a greater part of the former Grant student body. Lincoln families and educators, I'm sure, don't want their community disturbed any more than any other group, but unless that is to be considered overly for some reason, it doesn't measure up to all the positives voiced here.

The beauty, fairness and economy of Meg's plan is self-evident to so many people here, where many of Lakewood's concerned and knowledgeable people come to communicate, that to not consider it as a valid idea is mind blowing. It would make one wonder.