Cleveland and Lakewood - first class in art and other areas

[DougHuntingdon]

All this talk about "first class" from the other thread reminds me of Mayor White. A "first class" city needed to spend money on a direct flight to London from Hopkins. A "first class" city needed the rock hall. A "first class" city needed a new basketball arena. A "first class" city needed a new football stadium. A "first class" city needed a new baseball stadium. A "first class" city needs a new convention center behind Tower City. A "first class" city needs more monkeys in the primate section of its zoo. A "first class" city needs to redevelop Burke into a park and replace it with a floating airport. A "first class" animal farm needs alpacas--ok I made that one up.

Similarly, I am told online and offline that a "first class" Lakewood needs, among other things: windmills, a peninsula, a jetport, Flintstone vehicles that pick up the trash behind your house, more brick crosswalks, rubber sidewalks (so trees don't uproot them), citywide wifi, Lightspeed, a breakwall to protect a beach that will have the sand mechanically cleaned weekly, CityStat, twice as many police officers, a new YMCA, a 200% larger library, several new schools, federal historical designation for Birdtown, ...

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the above, but who decides what is "first class?" Phil Florian? Mike White? JOB? Mayor George? The current owner of the L-o-m-b-a-r-d-o property?

Who decides what is art? Who decides what art is better than other art? Who decides there is not enough art or that there is too much art? Is Urinetown good art? Is Mapplethorpe good art? Is Madonna singing in front of burning crosses art? Is a Britney Spears' video good art? Bob Dylan? Ivor Karabatkovic? Menopause the Musical? Tony n Tinas Wedding? My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Tom Cruise?

Doug

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Who decides what is art? Who decides what art is better than other art?

all art is good art, its up to you whether you like it or not.

I once knew a sculptor that made sculptures out of metals and scrap garbage from junkyards. If you ask me, the sculptures looked like a bad welding job, but if you ask my neighbor it can be a masterpiece.


that's the thing with bringing art in a diverse community.. you have a lot of different views on what "good" art is, so you better have a big variety of material within the city.

I've been asking myself those questions as I'm building my portfolio for (hopefully) a art show in the future. I can't just have pictures of baseball players hitting the ball a mile away.. because not everyone likes baseball.

if a city like lakewood is looking to boost it's artsy side, they better have more than one style of art to please more eyes.

Speaking of good art, tomorrow in my photography class I have my first "critique" by fellow classmates and the teacher..

the teacher asked me today "ivor, have you ever had your work critiqued?"

"yeah; once too many times....."

I'd love to get more art in the city, I love walking the streets and feeling the energy of the city, if they get art up we have to make sure some of the pieces capture that energy.

[ryan costa]

I have always wondered about beaches. Do they have to be Sand?

I enjoy walking on breakwall rocks. It would be cool if the beach floor was made of those instead of sand and old beer caps.

Where do big rocks come from?

[Phil Florian]

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the above, but who decides what is "first class?" Phil Florian? Mike White? JOB? Mayor George? The current owner of the L-o-m-b-a-r-d-o property?

Yes, I in fact do decide what is first class. As do all the folks on the list. Everyone decides. I think one way to look at it is that the more things that can make the city special to the more people benefits everyone.

I do agree that not everyone would benefit from beaches in Lakewood. But I am willing to bet a lot of people would. Rocks? Well, not so much. Harder to build a sandcastle out of huge rocks. You would actually have to build a REAL castle with those. Cool? Yes. Doable, not so much.

Anyway, the city has to be more than just one-track with how people spend their time. Is a sports franchise important? Absolutely. Does everyone use it? Not at all. I certainly don't. I dislike most professional sports but I understand their place in the landscape of cities and know that people do get enjoyment out of them. But if we are ONLY a sports town with no access to the arts, we are limiting ourselves. If we are ONLY an arts community with no pro sport teams, we are limited. If we have both, we are well rounded and on our way to growing to the potential that this region has.

Maybe a first class city is how politicians describe pornography. They can't describe it but they know it when they see it. Art is the same way. You can't boil it down to quantifiable figures and stats. It is what it is and defies that sort of categorization. What is good for one person is not for someone else. That is what is so wonderful about art...it can be surprising and unpredictable. It can be illuminating, life changing. thought provoking, stupid or simply entertainment. It isn't all things to all people and nor should it be. To some, art is what their children do at school and then post on their refrigerators. That is really art. But so is Mapplethorpe's photographs to some. Art can also be confrontational, offensive and insulting. It communicates in ways that direct conversation cannot. Look at the power of a few political cartoons in Europe. That is powerful stuff. Since it fails to be quantified you just have to embrace it and know that some will be good for you and others won't be but there isn't some baseline "art" out there that everyone can agree upon. How horrible would that be?

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
It was brought up here that in order for Lakewood to be a "First Class" city it needed certain things, (eg. Windmills and a peninsula).

I wanted to say that the proposed peninsula is art that works.

It would grow Lakewood by 26 acres. What could Lakewood do with this extra acreage? Get much needed additional tax revenues year after year after year.

How much?
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Annual additional City revenue: $ 2,217,075
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Annual additional School revenue from property taxes: $ 5,211,518
(Isn't this enough to skip a cycle or 2 of property tax increases to cover operating expense increases?)
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Annual additional Library revenue from property taxes: $ 269,561
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Annual additional County revenues from property taxes: $ 1,707,221
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Total annual additional revenues $ 8,985,375
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That would be a big help to Lakewood each and every year.

Art that works!

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[DougHuntingdon]

Maybe the access road to the peninsula could have a small toll, at least for non-Lakewood residents.

Doug

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

I'd love to have the peninsula

think of all the possibilites of pictures come the 4th of july and the fireworks!


*drools*

[ryan costa]

Those are expensive pictures, Ivor. Real Kodak Moments.

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Donald Farris]

Hi,
One of the keys to any action Lakewood takes in the future is an open exchange of ideas. Which is why I feel it is so important that they be brought out in public from the very beginning. Any plan can be improved and Lakewood has the most incredible collection of individuals that care about it and truly do want to make it better.

I would certainly want Lakewood to have an open discussion on the vision for the park before it was implemented, and certainly we should vote on it. But that's getting ahead of the needed process. I would think a feasibility study would be a necessary worthwhile next step. All aspects of the plan could be studied, park improvements, land reclamation, water intake and perhaps windmill farm (should it be in sight or out of sight?) could be investigated and a cost for such parts determined.

The vision Savannah developed was a collections of ideas from everyone she could speak with during the 4 months she studied the Park. She attempted to enhance the Lakewood Park experience for everyone by addressing aspects she and others felt would make the park better. But her challenge was to find a way to improve the park without burdening the strapped City finances further. The additional growth of Lakewood by way of the peninsula is the vehicle to fund all the park improvements and make the lake more accessible. The extra tax dollars I mentioned above are another bonus.

She did want a public Lakewood beach because she was lucky enough to live near and have access to Clifton Beach. She and her brother have spent countless hours playing down on that beach. She wanted that experience to be available to all of Lakewood's kids. She didn't like that Lakewood was next to the lake but there wasn't a place you could put your toes in the water or build a sand castle or look and touch rocks on the shore. She felt that people would spend hours at the park but they would make a day of the beach.

Her plan would change the park. The existing views would be changed. Look at this beautiful view from the condos on the Gold Coast:
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WoW! I have lived in Lakewood for many years and just recently got to see this from the top of one of the Condo towers. That's a million dollar view for the condo owners. PS Here's the view of Cleveland from up there:
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It was a little hazy that day but still WoW!

But while the view from atop the cliff would be changed to looking out over the peninsula, there would be many exciting new views. You could go out on the peninsula and have an unobstructed view of the lake looking north. You could go to the east end of the peninsula and have an amazing view of the Gold Coast and the City of Cleveland. You could go to the west end and have another amazing view of western Lakewood, Rocky River and Lorain. In addition to these views you could go up to the top of one of the lighthouses that rise high above the park for a 360 degree view. I think that the view looking south of the Park and central Lakewood will be one of the best.

A very similar view to the existing one the park offers would still be available at many of the streets that end at the cliffs. I walk to Webb and like that view. Not exactly the same but very close.

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

In that regard, we are in complete agreement in that it is something that city (meaning all people) would have to evaluate together to decide of it is something that they would want.

Charyn

A quick question.

How do you feel about not being asked to vote on the current Lakewood Park multi million dollar redevelopment, expenditures to the Beck Center, Mainstreet, and their programs?

Just curious.


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[ryan costa]

In Avon Lake there is a semi-private park on the lake. Only people who live on Vineyard Street or nearby streets could use it. I don't know if people went swimming there, but I found a lot of fishing lures on the shore.

Perhaps that is Lakewood's solution. Don't turn it into an official Beach. Just tear down the "no swimming" signs and let people take chances.

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Thanks for the clarification.


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