Should the LO work on a curve?

[Jim O'Bryan]

This week we had an interesting thing happen. One group got it, and the other either through misunderstanding, lack of participation, pure laziness, or their utter demise failed to show.

For this exercise lets use, Lakewood High School and St. Edwards. The Lakewood Observer has continually reached out to residents, teachers and administrators in both schools. Yet LHS puts up a monumental effort of writers, photographers, editors, etc. while St. Edwards gets in a story every 4 months or so. It has gotten so bad, they are using a Lakewood High Grad to cover their sports events.

So should the Lakewood Observer punish LHS and cut their stories?

This is not a real scenario, but close to another one. I am interested in hearing what readers have to say.


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[Paul Schrimpf]

A few thoughts:

- As a community paper that relies on volunteer contributions, it's virtually impossible to stick to an issue plan beyond a certain percentage of content. You have to, in large part, go with what you got.

- Every entity that is interested in editorial coverage should understand the rules of LO engagement by now. Even if they don't, the rules of newspaper PR apply -- they are duty bound to do the research and figure out how to secure that coverage. It's not on you.

- That said, from the editorial perspective, it does the paper a disservice to cover one side or another of an issue/company to too great a degree, even if that's what has come over the transom. That's up to the editorial board to make the call, and it's something you do by "feel" and experience. You can generally sense when you're over the top.

[sharon kinsella]

To me it seems that if someone wants to cover the "St. Ed's" sports, even if they don't go to St. Ed's, the LO should allow that because of the citizen journalism proponent of the project.

However, if "St. Ed's" expected that the LO would assign someone to do it, I wouldn't.

I would also put "LHS Student" under the name of the writer if that was the case.

If an organization doesn't want to make an effort toward being part of the community and they have been offered many opportunities, I would have one more meeting with the "power" about why it should be done and then let it go.

Not everyone wants to be part of a movement, but the door should always be open.

[Will Brown]

I think your coyness gets in the way if you hope to get any meaningful responses, as you don't identify what the real subject of consideration is.

A comparison of coverage of Lakewood High and Saint Edward High would no doubt be affected by the fact that Lakewood High is the Lakewood community school, while Saint Edward, unless things have changed a lot since I was in school, is a school that takes students from anywhere, including outside of Lakewood; in fact, I believe a Lakewood resident could opt to attend Saint Ignatius rather than Saint Edward. So the comparison is between a community institution, and an institution that is located in Lakewood, but is not a community institution.

Perhaps if you would identify the actual issue under consideration, you would get more relevant answers.

As to balanced coverage of institutions, my understanding is that you eschew journalistic responsibilities and hold the LO out as a product of community volunteers, so I would not think you would feel any responsibility to balance coverage; if parents of kids at Hayes submitted interesting articles, and parents of kids at Lincoln didn't, would you really refuse to run the interesting articles?

[sharon kinsella]

What is your real problem Will?

Just say it.

[Charlie Page]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. And you shouldn’t hold back one thirsty horse because the other can’t find their way to the watering hole.

I find it difficult to understand how or why one group would fail to show. You’d think there would be more than a few students who would jump at a chance to get their feet wet in the field of journalism. Maybe some internal politics going on?

[Jim O'Bryan]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. And you shouldn’t hold back one thirsty horse because the other can’t find their way to the watering hole.

I find it difficult to understand how or why one group would fail to show. You’d think there would be more than a few students who would jump at a chance to get their feet wet in the field of journalism. Maybe some internal politics going on?

Charlie
Lakewood students have always embraced this project, and St. Edwards, calls sets up meetings and then what starts as a flow, turns to a trickle. The same is true with Lakewood Catholic Academy.

You are correct, why hold one horse back when others are not even thirsty and in full stride. Last year we worked with Ivor trying to get him funding for school, now this year we are hoping to help get another into college, this time Columbia University.

Victoria Policard, a LHS grad, and University of Miami journalism grad, thought the experience was just what young journalism students need to get into college. Rami Daud, attended Kent's Journalism school, and is now with Akron Beacon Journal. Bryan Wroten, brought much to the Observer project and now is in his final year at Kent, building and using his experiences with the LO.

It makes no sense to me, on many levels.

But let's go to Will's question: What is the real scenario.

Lakewood Democratic Party flodded the paper with voter guides, stories, photos, media events and more. LRO sent in zip. Now we know some of the members are prolific writers, flooding boards with complaints about the Obama sign in my wife's window. But could not muster minutes of efforts to tell Lakewoodites why they should vote for McCain.

This happened before during Ryan Demro's run for mayor. At first they could muster nothing and opted to "hire" Julie Mosher from Michigan to write a story for the Lakewood Observer. When that blew up and readers realized she was a "personality" from Michigan, the outcry was deafening. (Do a search and see)

After discussions with Dan Slife and some members of the Lakewood Democratic Club and Obama camp, we held back the onslaught. The articles appear online but not in print this issue.

So Will? Charlie? others?

Do we have to run the paper on the curve?

Dumb it down so to speak?


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[Ryan Salo]

If the LRO had wanted to reach your audience through the paper we would have written something.

We have no desire to do so.

We have more effective ways of reaching out, to a larger audience, of truly open minded voters.

Not sure why you had to act so secretive, not a big deal if the republicans don't want your help. Shouldn't surprise many after they see how you treat most of us.

Thanks anyway.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Jim,
The answer to this question goes back to the fundamental ideal behind the Observer which has been debated in various forms on this board over the years.

Essentially it boils down to two choices:

A. The Observer is a citizen-led product filled with whatever anyone has desire or time to write about. But it is not not a true piece of "journalism" in the strict sense. It's not beholden to balanced reporting and it's not going to separate editorial content from true reporting.

B. The Observer is a true piece of journalism and will hold itself accountable to the usual journalism ethics (http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp) with editors ensuring unbiased reporting (to the extent possible) and clear labeling of editorial/opinion content.

This is the debate that is at the core of your question.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

If the LRO had wanted to reach your audience through the paper we would have written something.

We have no desire to do so.

We have more effective ways of reaching out, to a larger audience, of truly open minded voters.

Not sure why you had to act so secretive, not a big deal if the republicans don't want your help. Shouldn't surprise many after they see how you treat most of us.

Thanks anyway.

Jim,

I guess the option of submitting articles, getting them printed and in the hands of 17,000 voters along with 3 million+ readers online (I'm sure more now, that was last year's stat) just doesn't cut it for the LRO. Let them use their more effective ways of campaigning here in Ohio for this final week. It's their choice.

It's too bad that the LRO didn't use this last issue before the election to spread their message of this election season around. And not just this issue, but the past issues too. Maybe they don't have someone to write their articles and take their photos for them? Who knows. Maybe they're too busy? Whatever the case is, their decision cannot be reversed and we're all in for a heck of a ride come election day.

But since this frees up a bit of print space, I'll be covering the Jay-Z concert that LeBron James is hosting tonight at the Q for Barack Obama. And rumor has it that Obama himself will be making a last minute stop around the greater Cleveland area this weekend, so I might just cover that too. The Obama office in Lakewood has called me four times this week to do a photo story on all the businesses in Lakewood who proudly show their Obama signs. Since LHS sports is on a break until late November, that sounds like something interesting to cover too.

But I wanted to Thank you and the Board for providing Lakewood students/alumni the opportunity to cover Presidential Candidates and for giving them a place to build their portfolios. In the past year, I have done a lot of great assignments with the LO that I never dreamed of doing, and it would not happen if the LO didn't exist. If the LO didn't exist, I would not have thought about photography as a career...and picked up a camera. True story.

[Charlie Page]

I guess the question is where do you draw the line on fairness? And to what lengths should the LO go to be fair? Everyone has their own definition of what’s fair and it usually depends on which end of the stick they’re on. Like I said, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

We have more effective ways of reaching out, to a larger audience, of truly open minded voters.

If I’m interpreting this correctly, you have just labeled all LO readers/voters, if not all Lakewood, as close-minded. I hardly think this is a position that’s going to win anyone over.

Judging from the barbs and jabs thrown between you and Jim on other threads, there has to be some deep seated ill will between you two. Life is too short for this sort of thing.

[Colleen Wing]

Julie Mosher was a Lakewood resident at the time and had been for 6 years, she has recently moved. She never lived in Michigan. I hate to muddle your attack with facts.

I am glad you clarified this thread because it didn't make any sense. I assumed there was some secret background story and as usually, there was.

BTW-the LRO is not a person so "it" can't submit anything.
I submit articles when there is something to report for various organizations. And when there is news, I will again.

Participating on the Deck and in the paper are two different things.

Don't complain to the garden when you plant corn and you don't get giant zucchini. Check the third floor..maybe they are there.

[Todd Shapiro]

Jim,

Two points for you to ponder. First, I agree with Ryan, why should a Republican waste their time writing an impassioned plea to vote for John McCain in a publication where the majority of contributers and I would guess most of the readers are ardent supporters of leftist politicans like Dennis Kucinich or Barack Obama. God bless everyone and their right to vote and think however this wish, but I don't think any minds are going to be changed by a column in the Lakewood Observer. I have read, and in most cases actually enjoyed, the Observer's pro-Obama coverage, but I am still voting for McCain next Tuesday.

Secondly, I find your comparison of the political stories submitted to the Observer to the Observer's sports coverage to be personally insulting. First of all, if you take the time to read the very newspaper this lists YOU as the publisher you would see that all three St. Ed's sports stories that have been written this school year, have the byline Todd Shapiro on them. That's right Jim, I have a name. Oh and by the way I am not the "Lakewood Grad" that they use to cover their events. I am the Benedictine grad, who is a proud resident of Lakewood and still, amazingly, believe in you and this project.
And if LHS puts a "monumental effort" into the Observer,again YOUR words not mine, why is Ivor the only other person, who does not have a vested interest in a sports events, to take the time to cover EITHER Lakewood or St. Ed's sports events.
Seeing, as we are always reminded, that this a citizen journalism project, you don't know what sporting events are being covered until the story shows up in the member center. The reason St. Edward got any coverage from me this year, was not any meeting you had or any trickle of information they provided to you. Instead, it was Ivor who talked me into covering some St. Edward events.
Why did St. Ed's get their football games covered this year and Lakewood didn't, and did anyone even notice? Again, myself, the only person who takes the time to provide consisitent print coverage of sporting events spend Fridays working for the Lorain Morning Journal, getting paid for my services. Therefore, I decided, after Ivor talked me into it, to cover some St. Ed's games instead because they usually play on Saturday. Again there is no way that yourself or anyone else involved with the Observer would know that because it is citizen journalism, you don't know what stories are coming in.
I long ago realized that most of the people deeply involved with the Observer Project, are not sports minded people and aren't as interetsed in hard-core journalism as in promoting their personal views and agendas. However, with the daily newspaper business quickly dying and citizen journalism business thriving, I guess it dosen't matter who writes a story or who gets insulted, because there is always another press release to print.
P.S. If anyone has friends or family on the Lakewood boys soccer team tell them to look on the Observer website for the story about their surprizing tournament run. The researched, attributed story was bumped from the print edition so a press release, could be plager....., I mean, copied and ran on the Schools and Sports page.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Todd,

I wouldn't take Jim's initial post personally at all. I know I didn't take it personally. He clearly stated that the Sports example was only one to serve as a metaphor for the real issue, the political one. He just used Lakewood/St.Eds, who are known to hate each others' guts, as the example. There's not a lot of other examples to use in Lakewood. We just happen to be covering both sides of the coin, both sides that in history don't like each other, so that's why I wouldn't take it personally. It's not about our work, it's a metaphor for a rivalry.

As for covering Lakewood/St.Ed's athletics? Hey we've got a new season ahead of us at the end of the month. I don't know if you hear anything from the parents, but I know every time a new issue comes out I hear praises for the work YOU do. The parents have caught on to who writes the articles, and they are very appreciative of the coverage you give their children.

What we do together is really cool, and really fun, and I'm glad to have you by my side during games. That's why I'm thankful that you're still on board and contributing with the LO project, and it's also why I asked you to cover St.Ed's sports with me.

Todd, just realize that your time and work is greatly appreciated by those who read it on a ritual basis. I'm not joking either. You have no idea how many people go out to pick up a paper every two weeks because of your work. I have many people that have bookmarked the photoblogs and check them every single day, sometimes more often, but my work doesn't mean anything if there's no story that's running with it. And there's no one out there who I'd rather have writing the stories than you. I'm sure the parents and coaches would echo that.

[Colleen Wing]

Ivor,

I guess you got to the heart of my frustration with this and other similar situations in general.

First, if politics was the issue then that should have been stated directly. I thought this thread was about sports.

Second, Lakewood/St. Ed people hate each others guts. That is rivalry. Which means...leave it on the field.

When I was a restaurant manager, one of my stores was in Ann Arbor. On the day of the Ohio State vs. Michigan game I proudly wore my OSU sweatshirt into work, I was the GM so it was okay Alot of razzing happened and some very happy OSU fans ordered extra but then one guy walked in said "this is bs and told all of his friends they were out of here" his friends thought he was joking but he was serious, and they left.

I went back and took off my sweatshirt and put on my apron. I didn't feel I had the right to jeapordize a business that I didn't own just to make me feel better for one day, even though 98% of the people took it as school spirit, I was there to sell bagels - not at the stadium. I have been to 2 games in The Pit and have sported proudly my school colors, and although I got yelled at...a lot, I never waivered, and since Cooper was our coach at the time, lost in a morally defeating fashion.

I was raised with a shrine to Woody Hayes in my basement, the first time I saw my father cry was a trickle down his cheek, looking up at the arch at on the outside the Horseshoe. He pretended to play the drum for the fight song while I was walking down the aisle because Fr. wouldn't let us have that for our wedding march in church.

My husband's best friend went to UofM and I love him but I want in to lose horribly one day a year. He is also a Democrat. So I guess make that two times a year.

But I don't hate Democrats, and I really, really don't hate people I know who are Democrats.

We prepare for the game, we sing, talk smack, we fight and play, and rally our team but at the end of the game, the score is the score.

And then we leave it on the field.

And then we get ready for next year.

At least that is how it is supposed to be.