Single Payer Universal Health Care

[Lynn Farris]

Heard an amazing talk last week at the Democratic Club on Single Payer Universal Health Care as proposed at the Federal Level by Kucinich and at the state level by Skindell. Pretty impressive to have both of our representatives addressing issues that really matter to people.

And we also have April Stoltz, one of our citizens very active in this issue. She is working on a petition drive in case Mr. Skindell doesn't get his colleagues in the house to go along with this. I'm trying to get her to write an article for the Observer because she knows this issue inside and out.

But in looking at the School administrative thread it made be think about healthcare. If Blackwell wants to crack down on school administrative costs, wouldn't a better place to look be at insurance administrative costs or at least an equally good place be?

Fact One: Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administration.

This is one of the reasons why the US has the most expensive health care in the world and we are not getting the best results.

http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm

The data above is from the state of CT. I know this is similar to the data that was presented. Just wondered what you thought.

[ryan costa]

The Socialism is good??!

[Lynn Farris]

We have an intereting view of health care in our society. Actually everyone finally gets health care when they show up in the emergency room extremely ill. This is when it is most expensive to provide it.

Sometimes we are penny wise and pound foolish - a quote from my mom.

If we had allowed for everyone to have preventative health care in the first place, our costs may have been lower overall and the health of our citizens better.

One other interesting item that came out was the Car manufacturers are going across to Windsor Canada from Detroit to manufacture their cars. Why? The cost of salaries are similar between the US and Canada. But the health care costs in the US are driving companies out of the country.

We need to look at this not because we believe in socialism. Not because we believe the health care is a right, not a priviledge. Not because every other Westernized country has it. But becuase it makes financial sense to do it.

[Danielle Masters]

The cost of salaries are similar between the US and Canada. But the health care costs in the US are driving companies out of the country.

Sorry Lynn, that's where you lost me. At least in the US my autistic son can get care. In Canada many treatments for autism are discontinued at age 6. Plus the wait to get treatment for a young child with autism can be up to 2 years, unfortunately many children are not diagnosed until age 3. Sorry Canadian styled health care does not sound good to me.

[Lynn Farris]

Okay, the Canadian plan has problems, but ours isn't working well when citizens don't have insurance and because of previous health problems can't get insurance, or think they have insurance - but it doesn't cover them if they get sick. I forget the number, but a large percent of the bankruptcies in this country are due to medical costs.

The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $7,129 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 46 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.

This is from Physicians for a National Health Care System
http://www.pnhp.org/

I believe the one that SPAN is proposing leaves the decisions with the doctors, not some insurance bureaucrat, which is why the medical profession is by and large endorsing it.

But the insurance companies will not - and they will bring big advertisement dollars against it.

Ask any small business owner or anyone that is paying for their own health care - this is a huge cost of doing business. And since we keep harping on City and School costs - this is a cost that has skyrocketed in the last few years.

[Danielle Masters]

Okay, the Canadian plan has problems, but ours isn't working well when citizens don't have insurance and because of previous health problems can't get insurance, or think they have insurance - but it doesn't cover them if they get sick.

I do agree with you on that. I would like there to be an affordable solution for health care coverage, but honestly I don't think the government is capable of doing that. They screw up most of what they touch.

[ryan costa]

Okay, the Canadian plan has problems, but ours isn't working well when citizens don't have insurance and because of previous health problems can't get insurance, or think they have insurance - but it doesn't cover them if they get sick.

I do agree with you on that. I would like there to be an affordable solution for health care coverage, but honestly I don't think the government is capable of doing that. They screw up most of what they touch.

The rising cost of healthcare and healthcare insurance is mostly the result of insurance companies and the way the medical profession handles itself.

[David Anderson]

Lynn and All -

I agree that the Canadian system isn't the best but we, as a nation can and must do better.

I also agree that we already have universal health care - Medicare, Medicaid, emergency rooms at county hospitals and private insurance (where generally the folks who really need insurance are not adequately covered). Unfortunately, this is an incredibly expensive mix that indeed has public policy implications on seemingly indirect issues.

While state lawmakers tout their single digit percentage increases in funding for public primary and secondary education during the Taft years, these increases are being negated by double digit increases in health care coverage negotiated in teacher contracts.

You're right, Lynn. For the first time in history, the province of Ontario, Canada is producing more cars than the state of Michigan. (Cars assembled in Ont aria save their makers around $2,000 per vehicle.)

George Will wrote about the Ontario situation a few months ago and joins others in believing that this nation must find a better system - perhaps a hybrid between Canada's Universal and our current - in order to grow economically. Health care is not a vacuum issue anymore.

In terms of Value to the System -

Doctors - Value: provide a diagnosis and care (prescriptions).

Drug Makers - Value: Make and sell needed drugs for a profit. But we get better.

Insurance Companies - Value: ????? What value do insurance companies provide? I'm serious here. Someone please tell me how insurance companies provide value to our health care system.

Lynn, you're right. We have to start looking this as an economic issue, not socialism vs. free market. (Those who bristle against government promotion of socialist tendencies must enter reality. Our economy is not free and open. It is regulated. We have the US Dept.'s of Transportation, EPA, FDA, OSHA, Commerce, Treasury. Hell, if the New York stock market gets too squirrely in any given trading session it's shut down. Our monetary policy is regulated by the Fed - there is not place in a free and open economy for an Alan Greenspan or Ben Bernake.)

We, must get beyond "The socialism is good?" knee jerk reactions to this issue. Second only to providing security, Government's primary jobs should be to clear hurdles that impede the advancement of standards of living (including health) and economic prosperity.

Our current health care system is bleeding us and our economy dry. What choice do we have?

[ryan costa]

Lynn and All -



Our current health care system is bleeding us and our economy dry. What choice do we have?

The jobs of 21st century are in Healthcare and the Inurance and drug indstries tied to it. Why do they pay so well?

If the are such a substantial component of the Economy, is the blood going from the Economy to the Economy?

[Grace O'Malley]

Our healthcare system is a mess and WE are in big trouble.

I listened to a news short on NPR yesterday about a company who is paying to send its employees to INDIA for surgery! Apparently, its cheaper to pay the airfare and other costs to go halfway around the world to have a surgical procedure performed. Now that's remarkable.

However, would YOU feel comfortable doing that? What if the companies that provide your healthcare INSIST that you travel out of the US for care? They've outsourced almost all other services, why not healthcare?

I think the future is very troublesome unless we do something about our system now. Not only do we have way too many people without coverage, we need to seperate coverage from employment.

If we don't act soon, don't be surprised when your employer or insurer demands you go to some third world nation where medical care is "inexpensive."

Oh, and BTW, I actually know many Canadian citizens and not one has complained about their health care. Don't believe everything you read in the paper. My friend's two sons have terrible allergies and other chronic illnesses and she runs them to the pediatrician all the time. No co-pay, no wait to get in, no paperwork or bills. She also gets a new pair of eyeglasses for each member of her family every year. Suffice it to say, she gets more benefits then I do for a lot less hassle.

[Phil Florian]

The cost of salaries are similar between the US and Canada. But the health care costs in the US are driving companies out of the country.

Sorry Lynn, that's where you lost me. At least in the US my autistic son can get care. In Canada many treatments for autism are discontinued at age 6. Plus the wait to get treatment for a young child with autism can be up to 2 years, unfortunately many children are not diagnosed until age 3. Sorry Canadian styled health care does not sound good to me.

For full disclosure, I work for the County Board of Mental Retardation as a case worker. I am curious what "care" means to you. I am not being facetious, either. Autism is one of the fastest growing diagnoses for developmental disabilities in our nation. This could be because it is a "spectrum disorder" which means that a person is diagnosed from a large list of possible symptoms but person A could be almost completely different than person B with the same diagnosis. Because of this, the "spectrum" might include people that 20 years ago might have not had that diagnosis. Who knows. (Danielle, I know YOU know this but I thought it would be good for others to read as a part of this conversation). So when I hear "care" it could mean all sorts of things from medications, therapies, respite care, equipment, schooling, etc.

But what I wonder about is what care you are getting that a child in Canada may lack? And if you are okay with a little sharing, how is your child's care provided? Insurance? Out of pocket? Both? Are you getting ANY help from government sources, such as my agency (which is both County and funded in a large part by Medicaid funds...this is good for Bill Call, who always asks how much money in Federal and State taxes come back to us...with our agency, a LOT)?

If this is too prying, let me know.

Thanks!

Phil

[David Anderson]

Lynn and All -



Our current health care system is bleeding us and our economy dry. What choice do we have?

The jobs of 21st century are in Healthcare and the Inurance and drug indstries tied to it. Why do they pay so well?

If the are such a substantial component of the Economy, is the blood going from the Economy to the Economy?

Ryan – You raise an interesting point. The classifieds are chock full of health care positions. What would the impact of any reform effort be on the economy?

1) If 40-60 million more Americans are brought into the health care system on a regular or preventative – not emergency – basis would this not offset any assumed decreases in money coming into the system as result of any reform effort?

2) Also, would not a healthier workforce population result in greater productivity across the economic board?

3) If more folks are enrolled in preventative care would not’t the costs decrease Medicaid and other programs that must pay for the uninsured and indigent to get a bypass after being rushed to the emergency room because of a heart attack? If so, won’t the amount of money the government grabs from us to pay for these costly procedures actually decrease?

4) Would not’t some manufacturing jobs be able to return here and promote another component of our economy?

5) The health care industry could be considered a bubble. If the price for health care continues to inflate fewer businesses and individuals will be able to afford it. (Bowling Green University is mandating that all incoming freshman must prove they are covered through a parent or employer before being admitted.) Nothing I’ve read indicates that the health care industry infrastructure would take a severe hit with even the most sweeping reform proposal.

6) The health care industry is growing at the expense of other components of our economy and/or the health of the workforce. Growth should not have such a draconian effect.

Various insurance regulation options, managed competition proposals, tax incentives and tax equity issues and getting consumers to be cost conscious about health care purchases, and medical IRA’s have all cropped up since Bush I.

The fact of the matter is that, for the most part, if you have access, our system is tremendous. If you are on fixed income a change in benefits tend to do much harm (who can blame the elderly for shopping in Canada for drugs). We do not want a government run program but the one we have instead is hindering our ability to compete globally while insurance companies are sitting on billions of profits at the expense of curtailed and affordable access - again not adding any value to the system.

Sorry for the long response but it’s just one man’s opinion.

[ryan costa]

Sorry for the long response but it’s just one man’s opinion.

Those are good ideas. probably the best ideas possible based on conventional economic preconceptions.

[dl meckes]

I always want to know why, when you need to have a test done, everybody starts with the most expensive diagnostic possible?

[Lynn Farris]

Wow Grace, I know you always have your facts straight, but I couldn't believe outsourcing surgury to India. So I did some checking. My gracious you are right!!!! Time Magazine/CNN

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1196429-1,00.html