Issue 6

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:58 am

Bret Callentine wrote:this isn't rocket surgury, or a vote on war, it's a vote to decide whether thousands of people will continue to have to drive to Detroit or perhaps be offered a different destination.

That's fine, but what's wrong with doing it correctly, in a non-monopolistic way, and with controls.

If done correctly, the free market, and competition, could prevail, AND it might benefit ALL Ohioans. That should make sense to you.

Sheesh! You Republicans...

Steve

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Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:05 am

This seems like a pretty simple vote for me.

By the way I did see a commercial FOR the issue while watching the news last night. It showed actors labeled as citizens from different states thanking Ohioans for spending their money in their states.

When Katrina hit Louisiana, the casino in New Orleans was one of the first businesses to open back up, and people filled it. Just a thought.

Life's only as complicated as we make it. Same goes with voting. It's much easier to vote when you know what you're voting for, compared to not knowing the issue and voting blindly. It's much more fun living life after acknowledging that you're going to die one day than it is to lose time living life wondering when your time will come, what will happen, and so on.

John Maynard Keynes, an economist, once said...

"In the long run, we're all dead."

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:07 am

And in about two hours I'll be dead when I take my Astronomy exam if I don't get back to studying.

This place always gets me thinking on a tangent. Ugh

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:12 am

Casino workers are paid minimum wage and most casinos are surrounded in a slum. New Orleans casions were nice and I even won a grand there but they aren't representative of all casinos. IF the bulk of the money is going into the wrong hands and not helping Ohio then I don't care about the people who have to travel to Detroit to gamble. They will still do it. How many people of low income would try to make it rich in Clevleand and lose what they have to feed their children? It is not so cut and dry. Until there is a better plan it is not worth the risk.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:13 am

Justine Cooper wrote:Casino workers are paid minimum wage and most casinos are surrounded in a slum. New Orleans casions were nice and I even won a grand there but they aren't representative of all casinos. IF the bulk of the money is going into the wrong hands and not helping Ohio then I don't care about the people who have to travel to Detroit to gamble. They will still do it. How many people of low income would try to make it rich in Clevleand and lose what they have to feed their children? It is not so cut and dry. Until there is a better plan it is not worth the risk.

Agreed.

But $34,000 a year and full benefits has me pondering why I'm even going to college.

Bret Callentine · Post by **Bret Callentine** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:17 am

No Bret, like the war it is just not that simple and is really about much more than that.

No Justine, it IS just that simple.

We already have gambling in Ohio. The only thing that will change is the realtive distance you will have to drive and which states coffers will be affected.

That's fine, but what's wrong with doing it correctly, in a non-monopolistic way, and with controls.

If done correctly, the free market, and competition, could prevail, AND it might benefit ALL Ohioans. That should make sense to you.

and as I said before, YES, that makes perfect sense to me, to you, and to 99% of the people out there. The problem remains that we are in all likelihood NEVER going to be given the choice to do it right. So how long do we sit and wait until we just go ahead and try to make due with what we can?

If you have some sort of argument as to how passage of this bill will actually damage our state, I'm all ears. Because hey, it's not like I'm sitting in my car waiting to drive down tomorrow.

Sheesh! You Republicans...

CORRECTION: I'm an Independent (economic conservative - social liberal)

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:22 am

Bret Callentine wrote:
No Bret, like the war it is just not that simple and is really about much more than that.

No Justine, it IS just that simple.

We already have gambling in Ohio. The only thing that will change is the realtive distance you will have to drive and which states coffers will be affected.

/quote]

If it were that simple it would be here. Going deeper is what led people to vote no. Don't assume what is simple to you is simple to everyone else.

Bret Callentine · Post by **Bret Callentine** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:23 am

Justine, this casino will not be coming to Cleveland, it's slated for a rural area north of Cincinnati and east of Dayton (along I-71)

Is your argument that someone who can't afford to lose money would rather hop in a car and drive three hours south, than hop on a bus and head down to the flats?

Also, this is not a "downtown" style casino. This is billed as a resort casino (akin to Mohegan Sun, etc). It will include a championship golf course, full spa, and desitination dining. I don't see a whole lot of interest in such a place from the delinquent crowd when they're much happier going to a place like Greek Town.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:29 am

Justine Cooper wrote:Casino workers are paid minimum wage and most casinos are surrounded in a slum.

Not here. Prairie Meadows is in Altoona (a suburb of Des Moines), right next to Adventureland (a popular amusement park) and the employees are paid very well.

Then again, PM operates as a non-profit, with all the profits (over $300 Million to date) go to education, the arts and grants.

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:29 am

There is a reason there are pawn shops outside of every casino. And yes if it were in Cleveland I think there would be people in their own back yard losing their dinner money that would not travel three hours to do it. I would never want it in Cleveland or anywhere in Ohio unless we waited until it was done right and children in inner city schools could benefit by getting proper books and toilet paper in their schools. It is not a morality issue for me but the truth is, there are pawn shops ouside of every casion for a reason.

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:31 am

David I would vote for that.

Ivor I get what you are saying! But college at least enables you to leave a job and have a better success rate of finding another one, hopefully one you enjoy, than if your only option is to stay at one you hate.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:35 am

Justine Cooper wrote:David I would vote for that.

Here is a good Register editorial about how Prairie Meadows operates.

Ohio could take a lesson from them.

Bret Callentine · Post by **Bret Callentine** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:40 am

I would never want it in Cleveland or anywhere in Ohio unless we waited until it was done right and children in inner city schools could benefit by getting proper books and toilet paper in their schools.

Justine, right now the state of Ohio runs the lottery and instant lottery system. How's that working out for the schools?

It is not a morality issue for me but the truth is, there are pawn shops ouside of every casion for a reason.

That is an inaccurate assesment. there are only pawn shops outside of casinos that target that type of clientel.

For instance, I can tell you, there isn't a single pawn shop outside the Casino in Baden Baden. But there are a few nice jewelry stores.

Down the street from the Hotel Casino I stayed at in London was the Lamborghini/Ferrari dealership, but no pawn shops.

Shawn Juris · Post by **Shawn Juris** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:42 am

Justine,
With all due respect, your responses do not seem to be taking into consideration what is being posted. Granted some will oppose gambling at every opportunity, but if issue 6 is going to be discussed shouldn't the specifics be discussed and shouldn't it go beyond a view of " I just don't like it ". If pawn shops are the reason to not have casinos then what should does that say about the many resale shops in Lakewood?

It seems reasonable to me to take a step forward. Unless there is any real progress on presenting a motion to do this the right way, what is the downside of issue 6? I conceed that some will always be out there who have a problem but that doesn't mean that we eliminate the entire industry because fat people eat too much, drunks drink too much, and hurried people drive too fast. As it was said earlier legislating morality should not be the reason. The tax revenues (even at the .003/$1.00) is more than we're getting now and it may lead to more resorts. If anyone is prime for resorts it's the north coast of Ohio. Let southern Ohio iron out the wrinkles of this and as long as there is an opportunity to add something similar in a few years for Cuyahoga or Lorain county at some point down the road then I'd be voting yes. Is this not the case?

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:48 am

David Lay wrote:Then again, PM operates as a non-profit, with all the profits (over $300 Million to date) go to education, the arts and grants.

David,

The Ohio Lottery money is promised to go to education. Technically it does, but it only supplants money from the general fund. If more people buy lottery tickets, it does not add an extra dime to the education budget.

I just heard an ad this morning saying something like, "Buy a lottery ticket. Take a chance for education." What crap.

Justine Cooper wrote:David I would vote for that.

Justine,

I would agree, only if they really meant it, not like they tell us now about the lottery.

Steve

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