Hilliard Theatre (not political propaganda)

[Stephen Eisel]

I can't recall when there was adequate parking at this facility, and even if you razed the whole neighborhood there wouldn't be enough parking to support a first-run theater.

that was one of the problems that we faced back in the 80's. We had tried to make the Westwood Theater into a 2nd run theater. Parking was always an issue for the Rocky Horror Picture Show and the 2nd run movies...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Will

As the last Lakewoodite to repair and rebuild a theater in this town let me have a crack at it. From all I hear, the place needs a new owner, not an investor.

From being inside over a year ago. The flat roof is a nightmare and the water damage extends from the roof to the floor and basement. This makes it very, very tough for an "easy" renovation.

The reason there is not enough room for parking is the original owners sold the parking lot to the group that built the Silver Coast. This is a newer owner that purchased the property without parking. So one would have to ask them what they were actually thinking when they did that or bought it.

That said I would not flinch at watching the city try to buy and/or take the Silver Coast. There are a couple building projects floating out there, and more than one could easily fit on the property, leaving a lot that could be shared. If the city is serious about saving the Westwood, this should be done ASAP. The Silver Coast owner wants waaaaaaaaaay too much for the property so it will come down to ED. Does the city have the stomach?

Even if you rebuild it, it will never get first run movies, probably not even second round movies, as that is still chains. Even the Detroit is part of a small chain or co-op. Maybe the new owner could join a co-op? Then there is the equipment that would have to be brought up to snuff as well or repurchased. How much???????

The other day in the hallway Phil Florian and I were discussing the idea of running A list 70mm classics? One would then have to ask how many people a week want to see Lawrence of Arabia, Star Wars, Tora Tora Tora? 2,500? In a city the size of Cleveland, with plasma screens and blue ray? With gas at $4.00 a gallon?

Later in the Dan Slife jumped in and spoke of dinner theaters that showed movies, food and drink. Without buying out Italian Creations we just added enough to the budget to raise that to 3,500 patrons a week? In Chicago, LA, New York, I would think it has a 50/50 chance at best. In Cleveland, only a hopeless romantic would try it.

As a night club or concert venue it has a chance. Just a couple concerts a week could float it. But then again you have to work to find acts. Most "headliners" are already signed to House of Blues, Clear Channel, Belkins etc. You can form packs with other clubs and break bands, as I did at Jimmy's, but it is a risk and takes time. Or you could go the way Jimmy Mileti has gone at Winchester, and get them on the way down. Jimmy has good nights and bad nights, another gamble.

But none of it matters without the city getting on the parking problem.

Meanwhile, The Phantasy needs less of a rebuild, has a great stage, a building behind for sale for $187,500 that could be torn down for parking. The problem, they want $5,000,000 for the complex that includes, 3 bars/liquor licences, 5 store fronts, and two restaurants.

The one thing that could save any theater project would be Midnight Movies, but I would hope they would return to 3 hours of shorts instead of playing one film to death.

FWIW


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[Stephen Eisel]

The Westwood had some very nice dressing rooms below the stage / movie screen and a very nice balcony back in the 80's..

[robert dobush]

The theater floor is concrete - the stage floor is wood - the basement floors are concrete - no damage. It is not a flat roof - it is a barrel roof with upper seam going north to south. And, who let you in ? The previous owners never owned the parking lot next door to my knowledge - the long term lease was cancelled when the city allowed the Silver Coast project to go forward. You may be right about the future of this property but I hope you are not. In the meantime, if you think the place should be razed - just say so . I dont think it is wise to embellish your opinions with falsehoods. bob d., theater owner ps thanks to all who stopped at the theater on Sunday - most were very positive and hopeful about the theater's future.

[Jim O'Bryan]

The theater floor is concrete - the stage floor is wood - the basement floors are concrete - no damage. It is not a flat roof - it is a barrel roof with upper seam going north to south. And, who let you in ? The previous owners never owned the parking lot next door to my knowledge - the long term lease was cancelled when the city allowed the Silver Coast project to go forward. You may be right about the future of this property but I hope you are not. In the meantime, if you think the place should be razed - just say so . I dont think it is wise to embellish your opinions with falsehoods. bob d., theater owner ps thanks to all who stopped at the theater on Sunday - most were very positive and hopeful about the theater's future.

Robert

I love the Westwood, my next door neighbor Gene Umpleby now deceased was the projectionist for over 20 years. I always got in free. Though he told me I had to reuse 3-d glasses as they were counted, for the Stewardesses in 3-D.

While not on the roof, I was repeatedly told by someone about 2.5 years ago about the cost and the problems dealin with the flat roof that had been patched.

I remember water damage in the back wall, that seemed to continue past the stage.

The now "theory" on the parking lot ownership was while taking with Tom Jordan 2.5 years ago. I had spoken with the DeFrasia's about trying to acquire the Phantasy Theater for a nightclub/concert venue. Terry Takgustan(?) arrianged a meeting with the owner. This is when Terry had his electronics in the front of the building.

after crunching the numbers, and various ideas, I saw it as a near impossible project without parking. The neighbors were outraged in the 70s when the bar across the street was operational, for people parking on the street. Mor than ten times this year I have mentioned to the city, Mike and Rhonda Loje, the city needs to level the Silver Coast. It is the only place with enough space to make the Westwood viable.

So what are your plans?


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[Valerie Molinski]

Jim, are you referring to the same Tom Jordan who worked for the city and at the same time, tried to secure a sweetheart deal for his company with Kaufmann Park and the Drug Mart plaza?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, are you referring to the same Tom Jordan who worked for the city and at the same time, tried to secure a sweetheart deal for his company with Kaufmann Park and the Drug Mart plaza?

Did not know it was his company?

But yes, that is the Tom Jordan I am referring to. Again this was about theaters in Lakewood, and what could be done to save them.

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[Will Brown]

I'm not sure razing the Silver Coast to make a parking lot for a theater makes a lot of sense for the city, short as we are of funds. A theater would have relatively few employees, so we would get only a little income tax revenue. But we would no doubt get more property tax revenue from the theater property itself. At the same time, we would be giving up a lot of property tax revenue from the Silver Coast property (assuming a parking lot would be appraised at far less than an apartment complex). We would also be giving up income tax revenue from all the residents of the Silver Coast. My gut feeling is that the net result would be quite a bit less revenue, and that's not even considering income tax revenue from the two businesses.

I intuit from prior postings that the owner of the Silver Coast is not averse to selling, but won't entertain reasonable offers and demands far more. I suspect that the property tax evaluation of the property is fairly low. So if the owner feels the property is worth much more, why can't the city seek a reappraisal so the owner can pay property tax at a level consistent with his high valuation of the property? Certainly if a fair offer for the property has been rejected, that is evidence that the property should be appraised at at least that level.

[robert dobush]

The property tax on the theater has always been good for the city - has been valued over 400K for years. I have personally put in over 100K to the Lakewood city schools, and coincidentally no child has lived in my building since I bought it. So, I feel that a city-made decision regarding this property or the Silver Coast would hopefully have the neighborhood in mind more than just a matter of who can put more into the city coffers. bob d.

[michael gill]

Will, you're probably right that a movie theater by itself is probably not economically viable, even with parking. whatever the plan, it must be more --or different--than that. A live performance venue, if it were envisioned as serving one organization, is also unlikely. A mix of uses--maybe several companies coordinating their schedules, maybe rentals for graduations and other purposes--is a more likely fit.

By the way, I very much enjoyed your peach canning recollection.

The study the city commissioned from westlake reed leskosky had a range of ideas, including gymnastics training facility (which would take advantage of the high ceiling). Thinking about this should respect the physical nature of the building, but not be limited to "movie theater." It has a vaudeville stage and fly space. The Cleveland Orchestra played there twice.

If the city were to acquire land nearby for parking, it should do so as Cleveland Heights did on Coventry: build a parking deck that would serve the whole neighborhood, thereby giving a boost to business and tax revenue for the surrounding streets. Surface parking would be a waste.

If someone has a less expensive theater to sell, that's fine. As far as I can tell, the subject of this thread not bargains, but the prospect of saving a specific, historic theater from Lakewood's early days, an asset to the streetcar era city, a piece of what makes it what it is.

I still wonder if the city would permit the buying of time. Could someone buy it and put a roof on it to save the place from further decay, even if they don't have complete renovation in mind and a business plan in place?

[Michael Loje]

The Lakewood Historical Society would like to thank all who attended the 2008 Come Home To Lakewood house tour. Because of you, the Lakewood community, it was a great success.
In particular, I enjoyed my time answering questions at and about the Hilliard Square Theater. I was encouraged to hear the positive reaction that most of you had to the beauty of the tile work and wrought iron of the lobby interior. Also, the artistry still visible in the plaster work. A question, though, has come up about these posts on the Observer. That being; what is so special about the Hilliard? What makes it so different from the Detroit or the former Homestead? A few of you came up with the answer yourselves. The Hilliard was/is the most beautiful theater on the west side.
There were only a few that rivaled the Hilliard. The Granada (now a Pizza Hut) was one. Downtown, The Palace and Hippodrome, (now a parking garage), were the others. The locals, the Detroit and the Homestead, were “formulaâ€￾ theaters. Fifty plus theaters in the Cleveland area would have been nearly identical to these on the inside. The Hilliard, though, is a one of a kind design by a noted architect. The eclectic designs of the Hilliard and Madison facades are unique in the Cleveland area. The simple attractiveness of the storefronts is what present day developers strive for, but seldom attain. The French, Spanish, and art deco influences of the auditorium set it apart. And, as most house tour attendees agreed, the lobby is a jewel. This is a place worth saving.
On a personal note, it was a pleasure seeing all of you. I hope we will soon see the day when the Hilliard will again be a part of life in Lakewood.
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[Jim O'Bryan]

Michael

Thanks for the post. I am well aware of the amount od sweat equity you have put into the Hillard/Westwood, and as you know I too love theaters. Especially the Hillard and Homestead.

The question is not nor should be can they be saved. That can be done, and quite possibly should be done. The question is, can the be operated at even a break even level. I would think no one wants to see Mr. Dobush nor DeFraisia loose their shirts on these projects.

First thing even before rehabing is parking. Can parking be attained? In both cases the answer is yes. Building behind the Phantasy is for sale, and John might even be interested in purchasing for parking. In the case of the Hillard/Westwood it seems much harder, though not impossible. The clearest choice is The Silver Coast.

I agree with Robert Dobush that the city should look at many factors, and have often lobbied them to obtain the Silver Coast. I think the sanest thought program is to put one of the new office buildings being talked about in the spot, and as Michael says build a parking lot on the other half that could serve the office building and the theater. I am not sure what else in the area needs parking at this time, but who knows in the future.

Whatever it will need an owner, that is happy to have a hobby, and put much love and attention into it. It would seem that Mr. Dobush might be that kind of owner.So the second question is, what can the city afford to do to help. And that is where Will Brown has been very good in this conversation.

Other factors besides taxes are what does the property cost the city currently. The Silver Coast is a drain on city services, and does seem to be a "wild west" of sorts with the many calls the police get to go to that complex. While we know the financial impact The Silver Coast has, we need to look at what impact and office building and classic theater could have in the neighborhood and the city. I believe the city is serious looking at that after conversations with the mayor and other people at city hall.

I can only seeing it working financially as a bar, ala Johnny Malloy's in Cleveland Heights, that is in its sister theater. A live venue, or possibly a studio of some kind for music or photography.

What if it were to become a "Lakewood Museum?" Not sure it is viable, but another option that has just occurred to me.

No matter a thanks to you, and Rhonda, and the Lakewood Historical Society, and to Mr Dobush who saved it and seems very interested in the discussion of the next step.

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[Brad Humphreys]

Some random thoughts:

-I agree that a theatre is probably one of the least likely possible future uses (In talking with Bob D. he seems to recognize that and had been working to get other tenants but was stymied by the city).

-Is the propane shop/Chinese restaurant approachable?

-I think Bob struck a cord with me in his want to utilize the positive aspects of the building in a way other than the low hanging fruit redevelopment: IHOP, Dunkin Doughnuts, Autozone, etc (not to take anything away from these as I know a lot of work must be done to get them and they are positives). But utilize the uniqueness of the building for something unique to the city.

-If you could change time and go to the world of What if…… What if the building had been available when they put the albatross on the front of the high school. What if this building could have served that purpose? Not too far from the high school, could have been used for city meetings, etc. Would have been a nice use…..

[Jim O'Bryan]

-Is the propane shop/Chinese restaurant approachable?

Brad

Chinese place does an OK business, the propane shop was out of business, then family stepped in to run it again.

From the way I see it there are a bunch of lots that might be available.

The public lot next to the Chinese restaurant, The Harding lot, possibly the mall on Northland and Madison, the Senior Center, If they really get rid of the pocket park with tennis courts.

OR, get rid of the Silver Coast.

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[d drickhamer]

As a Northland Ave resident, tearing down the Silver Coast apartments and the two other run down "first month free!" apartment buildings next to it can't happen soon enough. Demolition would cut down on the people driving 50 mph down our street.

As far as parking goes, the home improvement biz across the street from the theater on Madison seems to be on life support as well. The storefront side is slowly deteriorating, which is ironic. It occupies a big footprint that could be put to some kind of alternative use. Despite the cracked tennis courts, the park does provide some green space in the midst of a lot of asphalt, which would be a shame to lose.