Visionary Alignment: Question 2

[Joan Roberts]

Mr.Juris.

Clearly, we're in agreement on this.

When I say "high taxes"are the biggest problem facing Lakewood, it's not because I believe people are too cheap to pay their fair share. Lakewood, bless its heart, has proven itself to be self-sacrificing on that score.

But if you believe the message of "The Tipping Point," you believe that at some point, people collectively (more or less) say "enough is enough", and that's what I fear.

I worry that, instead of looking at a flawed system (admittedly not limited to Lakewood) and an administration that doesn't consider attracting busienss a priority, people will instead place the blame on greedy teachers and policemen

It simply defies logic that a city of more than 50,000 can somehow exist with no private employers of more than 100 people, and that somehow we can pave hundreds of miles of streets and educate 6500 kids on the dime of attic-based podcasters and web designers.

If you're going to run a city solely on the personal wealth and assets of 50,000 individuals, they'd darn well better be the richest ones you can find.
Unfortunately, it seems like our champagne tastes are running headlong into our beer budgets.

[dl meckes]

Joan,

Not that I disagree with you in principle, but I think you've been inhaling too much vanilla on that last reply.

It's a start:

Lakewood Hospital 1,378
Lakewood Board of Education 881
City of Lakewood 689
New York Life Insurance Company 232
Aristocrat Lakewood 168
AT&T 166
First Federal Savings & Loan Association of Lakewood 147
Galaxy Balloons 137
Advanced Energy Tech Inc. 123
United States Post Office 106

[Shawn Juris]

well at least that save the time of the one bit of statistical information that is readily available regarding employers in Lakewood. That is the very report that has me doubting the ability of this city to sustain itself. While this set up may protect us from the woes of many cities that folded when one company pulled up stakes, it would be nice... scratch that necessary at this point to start attracting some bigger stakes from the business world.

Since the distraction was added regarding infrastructure and the increasing costs of our blossoming pop up communities to the west. It's not like we are not in a similar boat as they are when it comes to infrastructure. The difference is that our boat (infrastracture) is old as dirt and corroding while they are popping in new materials as needed. The sewer backups in Lorain made the headlines and that's the problem they face. Our's seem to be on Council's radar and luckily that steaming stew hasn't rose to the surface yet. Character, durability and craftsmanship goes for a while and by all means I like old structures but when it comes to function, new is better.

[Joan Roberts]

You're absoutely right.

But it wasn't vanilla.

It was the nail polish...

Good catch. Thanks.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan, Joan, Joan

A couple podcasters and a handful of graphic designers! First the podcasters are probably just surviving, but many of the graphic designers are well into 6 figures. I am willing to bet the "handful" you mention are over 150. As I mentioned before, I remember when Summit/Westwood/Morrison had 7 designer on that one street ranging in price from $10 an hour to $150 an hour.

While not opposed to sensible development I am curious if we are better off trying to attract a couple big box stores for their minimum wage jobs, or get the approximately 75% of the police, fire, school employees to move to Lakewood that do not live here now.

What business will set us free from this "tax-burden"? Most commercial businesses that you would mention only bring on more burden to the city services. Do we try to compete with tax-abatements the whore of a city, so that we throw away opportunity now for magic beans that might work twenty years down the road?

Again in my small shallow mind as EVERY suburb turns into mini-mall mania to save their asses(which rarely happens), does it not make sense from a marketing point to be the city with a difference. "The city with another small mall" or "The best place to raise a family."?

In the next three years Lakewood will be surrounded by malls. Shopping will not be a problem, and the taxes are county taxes, shared by all.

A build out? I say sure if it is a College or University, that would fill rentals and stores. How about two or three more gold coast apartments. Always a sure winner in Lakewood, and they bring in as much as a mall with almost no negative impacts on a city. But let's use old talking points, What does an Applebees add? What do ten of them add? What do we have to give them to move here?

It is far too easy to say commercial, but rarely does it pay off it is not attached DIRECTLY to a very large freeway.

Let's not forget one young girl's plain that built out 50 acres, and one developer thought it should be enlarged to 100 acres, Savannah's Peninsula. Not only did it add 50-100 high end acres with commercial, it would add to the Lakewood Brand, provide more homes, ad a possible 55 - $125 million in property, pay for all the renovations now slated for the park. Give Lakewood access to the water, bring people through town, and make Lakewood solvent for a long time, even if the commercial world collapses. The day council said we will adopt some of the ideas made me sick. The building of the peninsula offers hope and a chance. Cherry picking parts of the park project, bankrupts the city.

Another easy way to help save the city is community currency. Those that do not understand the concept laugh at it. Those that do, dedicate their lives to it. Again, had Lakewood launched Lakewood Grinders when it was first floated every $1 would now be worth $4, makes the tax increase seem like a walk in the park. What if the city had bought in and their $75million dollar budget turned into $300million?

On the subject of the tax increase, I have not heard of anyone being turned down, on getting their tax assessment reduced that took the time to stop by the park, and ask for a reduction. Joan did you stop in? Charyn did you? Tim what about you? Hard to complain about taxes if you did not take the simplest steps to reduce yours?

Certainly the biggest problem with the city is a realistic plan that looks realistically down the road. I had the pleasure of having lunch with a person that might be called the biggest proponent of economic development in the city, was for the strip mall on the west side of town. The topic was taxes and what is rolling in. His comment was he now realizes retail, would not have made a difference. That boat has left a long time ago. I would love to see a freeze or reduction in city services, allow the city to bank some money for say three years, while they work on a REAL plan that takes the city 20 years down the road, not one that reacts to the whims and shallow thought of what "worked" in other cities. We need to look ahead, not behind.

FWIW



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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

You sitting down?

I agree with most of what you say.

However in most areas of the southeast I am old enough to be your father.

The legacy left should be a book.

I am not asking anyone to do anything illegal or wrong. The county assessment is a math formula. The inspection is hand on humans. The fact is, if your house has no major capital improvements, not repairs, the tax assessment could be waaay off. In our neighborhood, we had a neighbor sell a home to a recent lottery winner, I think. As they paid almost $100,000 over what it should have been. The fall out was huge, every other neighbor went fishing with for sale signs at crazy prices, that made the neighborhood look like Ebola broke out. Also all of our taxes went up.

We must all pay our fair share, but a second opinion it would seem for some is the difference between selling or staying.


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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Ahh then you were probably one of those trouble makers I had to wait on, eh??

Now that is an interesting question. Maybe we disagreed in another life!

I spent most of my Manners time, in the market that was located behind Manners, to the left of the ball park.


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[Jeff Endress]

That and the fact that we need a clear vision on what we want, what we can afford, and what we are willing to pay extra for. THOSE were my points. And still are.

Exactly Charyn.

All the talk about high taxes, lack of retail, lack of business, excess payroll, poor services, etc. is all well and good. But in the overall scheme of things that is a discussion about the symptoms, not the disease. We can all recognize these problems, just as we recognize that when our head is throbbing, we have a headache. We can treat those problems just like we treat a headache (Head on, just apply to the forehead...) but the piecemeal, temporary fix of the symptom, does not alleviate the the underlying problem of continually being beat on the head with a hammer.

So, discuss (if you must) the relative strengths and weaknesses of manufacturing vs. service, of mini malls vs. storefronts, of Applebys vs. the really good steak house Lakewood could use. It's a fun intellectual exercise that we can apply to the forehead, as we wait for the hammer to strike another blow.

But until there is a reliable, objective and replicable financial forecast, until there is an organized hierarchy of the NEEDS of the city, there can be absolutely no meaningful discussion of dealing with the WANTS of the city. Planning needs to be firmly based in a financial forecast, coupled with a budgeting process that is substantially more than ad hoc, and then a systematic design of what we can do, within the strictures of those studies, to facilitate improvements and changes that will have impact on the future financial forecasts. Any business in which we would invest does no less. And make no mistake about it, Lakewood is a business, and we, as taxpayers, are all investors.

So, let's not confuse the symptoms of the problem as the problem itself. Yes, we have a huge headache. But the problem isn't that our heads are throbbing, the problem is that we lack the information, the analysis, and the integrated planning necessary to stop the damn hammer from smacking us again.

Jeff

[Shawn Juris]

Boy, I hope that the reasoning that the city uses to not attract new business isn't "every other town has become a shopping mall so we don't want to". While we're at it since we're not going after Target let's dismiss the whole purpose of business growth in our town. Cities are built on their industry. This bedroom community is a bunch of bologna. Maybe if we were a hamlet with one traffic light and one guy served as Mayor, cop, firefighter and doctor we could get by on the tax contributions of the local residents but since we're "the most densely populated area from NYC to CHI" we need more services than one guy can provide. It's fine to be different but the current trend but our current approach to be "let's be different" is by taxing the residents and planning for more residential units (which I'm still curious if they'll be abated or not). The difference between successful suburbs and those that are in decline are the commercial dollars they draw in. I'm not pushing for the West End project or for any sort of big box stores. There's only one location that they would be viable and dropping it behind Madison Park, while it would be a great benefit to the Birdtown district would not be as beneficial as drawing real industry. Exports my friend, exports. Lakewood is in dire need of raising money from the wallets of our neighboring cities, not from the remaining lint of our current residents wallets and purses.
This commercial income doesn't have to be from big box stores or from chain restaraunts, it can be something unique and cutting edge but we better find a way to sell this town over the newer, updated options. Whether it's bio-med, IT, financial services or baking bread I'm sure that there will be considerations made regarding amenities like; air conditioning, knob and tube wiring & fuses, DSL lines, and radiators. Not to mention parking. The city's funding for storefront renovation is a step in the right direction.
In regards to this visionary alignment project, are there reports and statistics available?

[Jeff Endress]

Shawn

Great ideas. Apply to the forehead. But, you make my point of not confusing the symptoms with the problem....

In regards to this visionary alignment project, are there reports and statistics available

Jeff

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jeff

While I agree, the financial forecast is impossible. It is far harder than the forecasting the weather 5 years from now.

I think this is what makes much of the work of VAL so exciting. It plains for a Lakewood in best and worst of times. If Cleveland goes down the tube, very little effect on Lakewood, if it does better it helps us. Would seem like a win win.

This is one reason I am starting to think more and more, let them concentrate on safe and clean.

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[Joan Roberts]

Jim,. Jim, Jim.

I have nothing against podcasters and web designers (although I want to see the 6-figure podcaster, at least for the moment). If 150 people in Lakewood are actually making a living wage doing websites and creating podcasts, I'd be surrpised. But hey.....

Howewer, when you run your SOHO, you basically run it yourself (in essence creating ONE job)+, and you actually put nothing on the bottom line as far as the schools are concerned. And that, not the income tax, is where Lakewood is paying through the nose.

You can make six figures as a web designer in your attic (if you say so), but the auditor assesses your home as a RESIDENCE. You could be a million-dollar day trader and the schools don't see a dime. The body shop worker in the house next to you kicks in just as much to the schools.
Does that make a lot of sense?

As to whether people would gladly pay more tax if the operations were better run, I think that's hypothetical. The Lakewood schools treasurer has been named top school financial officer in the state at least once and possible more often, the schools regular get "excellent" marks by independent auditors, yet Mr. Call is unimpressed and would probably throw the guy over for an $8/hr Kelly temp.

I don't want ot speak for him, but I'm willing to bet that Mr. Call just doesn't want to pay any more taxes. Period. Under any circumstances.

As the saying goes, "For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, none is possible."

Finally, the issue of "planning" appears to me to be a given. Of COURSE Lakewood needs planning, and is getting damned little of it. The question is, planning for what? Which takes me back to economic infrastructure.

PS--Adding to your post, Jim. The schools are REQUIRED to do 5-year forecasts. Sometimes they're on target, sometimes they have to be revised. The fact that the law says they have to do it means someone at least has to think about 5 yrs from now. How can that be a bad thing?

[Jeff Endress]

Finally, the issue of "planning" appears to me to be a given. Of COURSE Lakewood needs planning, and is getting damned little of it. The question is, planning for what? Which takes me back to economic infrastructure

No Joan, the question is NOT "planning for what", but rather, planning BASED upon what. You and Jim can discuss forever, what you want to plan for, but until there is an economic forecast, it's like trying to put a roof on that new minimall before you've poured the footers. All the plans in the world to effect the economic infastructure are just so many pipedreams until and unless we have the necessary financial predictions both as to municipal revenues and expenditures. Maybe after we have that, discussing what we want to do with the monies, and how to have an impact will be more than a pedagogical excercise.

Jeff