John Moss' War Against Lakewood Library

[Jeff Dreger]

and here's the CCPL statement (CPL's is in an earlier post):

"Confidentiality and Privacy — The Library does NOT guarantee that any username, password, email, credit card number, financial, or any other information entered is private or secure.
We recommend you do NOT use public workstation for any financial, confidential or private transaction."


good luck finding a public library that gives you an assurance of privacy

[chris richards]

good luck finding a public library that gives you an assurance of privacy

It is not the "assurance of privacy" that is at issue here. It is the LPL's Policy of deliberately monitoring patrons use of computers via VNC. There are plenty of valid topics that people may want to research that they would not like library staff to watch over.

Any policy in a public library that discourages the research of any given topic is severe to me.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Chris

Would it be fair to say, you had issues with Ken Warren and the LPL way before this policy was started?

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[Bill Call]

It is not the "assurance of privacy" that is at issue here. It is the LPL's Policy of deliberately monitoring patrons use of computers via VNC.

So other libraries accidently monitor computer use?

Mr. Moss was quite precise in the numbers of "offensive" uses of library computers. How can he be so precise when he has no data because there is no monitoring?

I don't understand this hatred towards the library and its people.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill

We could even go farther.

How many monitor and never let anyone know their policy? the Lakewood public library has been very open and straight forward over their policy.

FWIW


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[Jeff Dreger]

the CCPL says:
"Library computers are available for the use of authorized persons and activity only, and activity may be subject to monitoring, recording and periodical audits."

the CPL says:
"Users should also be aware that Library staff may monitor use of the computers for the limited purpose of ensuring compliance with this Policy, and hereby consent to such monitoring."

I have not checked others yet...

so I guess the question should be what library are you going to that does not monitor public computer use?

[Jeff Dreger]

"It is the LPL's Policy of deliberately monitoring patrons use of computers via VNC."

Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not currently the policy nor is it presently being proposed as the policy. As Ken has said, it is a tool that is available and not off the table. Those are two very different things.

Also, where's the outrage at the CCPL whose deputy director admitted: "Usually there's always someone on staff wandering around at all times." So the CCPL is "usually" monitoring your public computer use. This is similar to the policy at CPL. What gives? How is LPL substantially different??

[Robert Bobik]

"The Library does not record or monitor details of activity on our public computers, such as Web sites visited or documents created. Our time management software does, however, record times of login and logout, along with the bar-code used. This information is kept primarily for statistical purposes and will be purged as soon as it is no longer needed."

This is one I found at: http://www.waltham.lib.ma.us/policies/computers.php

From what I have read, almost all libraries monitor patron usage of public computers. Very few, however, do this using VNC or other software.

[chris richards]

"It is the LPL's Policy of deliberately monitoring patrons use of computers via VNC."

Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not currently the policy nor is it presently being proposed as the policy. As Ken has said, it is a tool that is available and not off the table. Those are two very different things.

Somewhere on the deck I thought I read that it was currently in use as a monitoring device.

As for staff wandering around, that is very different from staff logging in and watching what patrons do.

Also objectionable is what determines questionable and ethical when it comes to internet use?

And no, I had issues with other policies and actions of Mr. Warren, not the man himself. I've also stated before about how there are plenty of positive things about the LPL. I do not hate the Library, or its staff. Before the construction started, I would visit the library once a week.

[chris richards]

Finally, I would like to add that, in my own experience, use of the VNC snapshot software is almost exclusively used for patrons with a track record of violating the library's rules (I can recall several patrons that have required daily reminders about library rules) OR when another patron complained that their neighbor was doing something questionable.

This was said by Roy Pitchford, from the Madison Branch. So VNC is in use, at least at the Madison Branch, if he is correct in his statement. I knew I read it somewhere.

[Jim O'Bryan]

And no, I had issues with other policies and actions of Mr. Warren, not the man himself. I've also stated before about how there are plenty of positive things about the LPL. I do not hate the Library, or its staff.

Chris

I did not mean to imply anything but I could have sworn that when we first "met" you hated my parking, and had issues with he library.

If I am wrong, please accept my apology.


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[Jeff Dreger]

Chris - after rereading that other thread, you may be right about the VNC snapshot software actually being used.

Maybe Mr. Warren will chime in and clarify whether or not it has been used and/or is authorized to be used?

Regardless, people have said this is fundamentally different from walking past and glancing at a user's monitor but I have never heard an explanation as to how or why they consider that to be the case.

CCPL admits that they will record your activity and CPL doesn't say that it won't, but there's no outcry about that?

so the question is still how LPL is substantially different from CCPL or CPL or others

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[chris richards]

Chris

I did not mean to imply anything but I could have sworn that when we first "met" you hated my parking, and had issues with he library.

If I am wrong, please accept my apology.


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HAHA! I did find your parking irritating. I did have issues with the library. I still supported the Library, and I still do.

I just do not support the the use of vnc as a monitoring device for public library computers. It's bad enough that the government has an eavesdropping program and that a bill was just passed to protect telecommunications companies. Do we really want our public libraries to strip away privacy any further?

[Jim DeVito]

I think there needs to be a distinction between privacy and ananominity. It is assumed that when you are in a public setting that you will have no guarantees when it comes to privacy. As far as being anonymous goes it should be assumed that the right should not be violated unless the monitoring uncovers some kind of wrong doing. I have not used the new computer system at the LPL as of yet, however if it is like the old system where you had to sign in to use the computers then they have your name on file. I find nothing wrong with the current policy as long as when monitoring sessions the LPL staff doing the monitoring does not put a name to the face so to speak unless said monitoring revels unsavory behavior.

[Will Brown]

I think the LPL is a good library, far better than one would expect to find in a community of this size. However, it has some weaknesses.

I've talked to a number of people who say it is often difficult to locate a specific item since the move to the new facility. This is compounded because it now seems difficult to find a librarian for assistance. Once I wandered into the children's section trying to find a librarian. There was one there, and she was helpful, but said if I had further difficulty I should ask at the checkout. Waiting in line behind people checking our or returning books just to ask where to find an item doesn't impress me as the kind of service we should expect from such a well-supported library.

Now I read that while they apparently don't have enough staff to man a help desk, they do have enough staff to wander through the library trying to find a teenager looking at a picture of a breast. To me, that is the kind of control that one would find in a totalitarian state, and I'm wondering to what other ends their thought control extends. Will they bust (sorry) us for reading racist literature, or Mein Kampf, or unapproved religious tracts, or Republican campaign literature?

I think the staff should take action when patrons are rowdy, or when other patrons complain of being disturbed, but an institutional policy of thought control is a waste of human resources, and contrary to what this country is supposed to be about.

I'm not going to be critical of Mr. Warren, because I don't know if the policies and features I dislike are his, or the Board's.