Rockport - Was It Murder?

[Bill Call]

It took longer for the Rockport development to reach its current stage of construction than in took to build the Empire State Building.

It seems odd that a multi billion dollar corporation in the business of housing and retail development couldn't deliver on what was promised. Original plans for loft apartments and mixed retail have been set aside. Replaced with poorly designed, overpriced and unattractive homes that are proving difficult to sell. If I had been one of the first to buy I would be asking for a refund.

If the developer wanted the project to succeed it would have succeeded.

People in the area were eager to sell. That would have provided opportunity for a bigger footprint.

The City was eager to cooperate. But the developer wasn't interested.

A few changes here and there would have laid the foundation for substantial development opportunity in an area with huge potential. The success along that area of Detroit would have fed further development all along Detroit. Development that would have competed with planned downtown development and Crocker Park.

Is that why the project was abandoned? Was it a bad market or was the project killed by design? Killed by neglect? Killed by indifference? Or killed in exchange for a seat at the table?

Or is the project in stasis, waiting for a change here and there that will bring it back to life?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill




I thought you started this thread once already.

The facts would indicate you are over simplifying the project, which has had pretty darn good success, considering what else is out there.

Three years ago the Observer highlighted $200 million in building projects that have all but two been completed. Rockport and The Cliffs.

Now which had made the most progress and done better for the city.

Which development is dead, while the developer The Foran Group, in a newspaper article talk of developing elsewhere in Cleveland right now, as it suits them better!

Bill, let's talk numbers and life there, where the discussion is needed.


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[Brian Pedaci]

Last year, Councilwoman Madigan facilitated a neighborhood discussion between Forest City and the residents in the area to discuss their amended site plan (they adjusted from the original developer's plan by adding a second loft building instead of townhouses on the north lot) and how it would impact and enhance the neighborhood. It was a good and productive meeting.

As market conditions have obviously played a part in the execution of their plans, and the rumored Applebee's development could further rearrange the site plan, I've asked the Councilwoman to go back to Forest City and set up another meeting to keep us appraised of progress and their outlook on the project. She agreed that would be a good idea and promised to contact the developers's representative and Nate Kelly to make it happen or at least get updated information.

If it does, I'll be sure to let you know, Bill.

[Sean McDermott]

Let's be honest. With both the current market situation and the perceived eastern Detroit Avenue challenges its my opinion that Rockport has done well. Its easy to criticize what has taken shape down there but harder to see what would be sitting there if Rysar had never taken the first leap of faith. You can NOT blame Forest City for the guidance of the project as they were originally just the equity partner. In fact, if it were not for Forest City guaranteed you would see no movement there in the past eight months. Its not murder, but appreciated life support....

[Jim O'Bryan]

Let's be honest. With both the current market situation and the perceived eastern Detroit Avenue challenges its my opinion that Rockport has done well. Its easy to criticize what has taken shape down there but harder to see what would be sitting there if Rysar had never taken the first leap of faith. You can NOT blame Forest City for the guidance of the project as they were originally just the equity partner. In fact, if it were not for Forest City guaranteed you would see no movement there in the past eight months. Its not murder, but appreciated life support....

very true

meanwhile at the other end of Lakewood...


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[Sean McDermott]

.....and, to add on to my last though, what Rockport has done is shown what the market is able to bear in that section of Detroit. The next developer who comes along has some great knowledge of knowing that more moderately priced units will fare well.

[Bill Call]

You can NOT blame Forest City for the guidance of the project as they were originally just the equity partner. In fact, if it were not for Forest City guaranteed you would see no movement there in the past eight months. Its not murder, but appreciated life support....

Forest City has cut back the scale of the Rockport project to concentrate on tax payer funded development downtown. They are particularly interested in having the new convention center located at Tower City. If they can't deliver on a small residential development in Lakewood why should the taxpayers fund their new efforts downtown?

Rockport sold a lot of units promising a mixed use development that will not be built. If I bought one of those homes I would be asking for a refund.

[Sean McDermott]

Bill, THE MARKET CHANGED!!!! There are suburban developers sitting out there all over the country with roads in, utilities in, and lots platted just waiting for buyers that are now years away from coming. In the meantime they are going bankrupt. Of course the Rockport plans changed. Let's be glad that there is still movement in the right direction. Had Forest City not taken over the project there is no telling what activity would be taking place down there. Plans change.

Want a fun activity? Drive down some of the streets near Regina High School in South Euclid. Driving down a particular street the houses go immediately from large stately brick to your post war bungalow. Why? The Depression. Plans change.

[Bill Call]

Let's be glad that there is still movement in the right direction. Had Forest City not taken over the project there is no telling what activity would be taking place down there. Plans change.

Even though the project was started when the market was booming your point is still valid.

Most of the completed homes have been sold even in this tough market. And they have been sold in the $290,000 range, quite an accomplishment.
I just think that with Forest City eager to have the convention center located at Tower City now is the time to apply some pressure on them to do more here in Lakewood.

The project is remarkably successful but we should expect more. We should apply pressure on Forest City to get it.

I guess I get frustrated when I see a billion tax dollars being spent downtown in an effort to bribe people into living where they don't want to live. We can't even get State tax dollars to help finance a medium strip on Clifton or to get Bunts Road paved. We get poor representation from the likes of Skindell and Kucinich. At election time they come into town for a little slap and tickle and then slink away in the wee hours after the vote.

Lakewood can win a fair fight. We can't compete against $100,000 land in Avon when all available development money from government is spent on downtown boondoggles and new infrastructure along I-90.

Our hospital is being used to finance the Cleveland Clinics new medical buildings in Avon, our City employees treat us like a piggy bank and we are just expected to keep paying. This is economic war and it's time we realized it. It's time to pick a fight and Forest City and the Clinic seem likely targets.

[Brian Pedaci]

I'd say reports of their demise were a tad premature.

Today before the Planning Committee, representatives of Rockport Square and Applebee's requested approval of their amendments to the site plan for the north lot of the project (between Beach and Fry).

Applebee's restaurant is still in contract negotiations with Forest City, but the proposed site plan abuts their building with the sidewalk and puts the parking behind it, which I think is a good move.

The major shift in thinking for that phase of the project is to ditch the second six-story loft building that was planned in favor of a three-story Class A office building, 60000 sq. ft., with an adjoining 3-story parking deck that will face Detroit and go along the west side of the lot, along Beach. Variances in setback were requested (and approved) to bring the building flush with the sidewalk.

The Bischof building on the corner of Detroit and Fry is still off the plan, as Mr. Bischof apparently cannot come to agreement with Forest City on a price to acquire his building.

While residents in attendance at the meeting applauded Forest City for their determination to find a profitable use for the land, some disappointment was noted that Phase III of the project has moved from mixed-use residential/retail to strictly commercial.