Who are our teachers?

[Will Brown]

I know almost anytime anyone posts anything about our schools, there is an almost reflexive response defending our teachers, and insisting our problems are due to other factors.

Let me start by saying I am certain there are some excellent teachers in Lakewood, but the idea that they are all ideal because they have completed some courses in education doesn't fly.

So it was with some interest that I read this short article:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0404/p02s01-usgn.html

This makes me think that I am not alone in my belief that too many people who become teachers do so because they aren't competitive in their core fields.

Let me give one example. I transferred into the college of education and got my first degree there because, frankly, I wasn't interested in working too hard, and I could coast there and still get good grades. I recall the first educational psychology course I had to take. It was an early morning class, and I'm a night person, so we started off on the wrong foot, but in all honesty, if the course had been at all interesting, I would have enjoyed it. It was taught (I use the term loosely) by a Professor in the educational psychology department of the college of education, a lady who held a Phd, and was, I'm certain, paid as well as other Phds.

The first day, the professor started out by reading from the text; she neither amplified, added, nor questioned; just kept reading from the text. I was awake enough that I realized this almost immediately, and sat there reading along with her. She read pretty well. I thought perhaps she was temporizing, this being the first day of class, and things would get better the next day. The next day, she continued reading word for word from the text; I wondered if she knew all of us could read, but said nothing. The saddest part was that I looked around the room, and students were taking lecture notes as she read from the text. Since I could read, and it was an early morning class, I stopped attending and just read the text. It was a rather simple text and took less than a couple of hours to read. Unfortunately, for me, one day she threw us an early midterm and, since I wasn't there, I failed it. Fortunately for me, she apparently never did anything more than read from the text, so when I showed up for the final and did, apparently, quite well, I ended up with a B for the course, good enough to keep the draft board at bay. Its sort of sad that so many students had to pay tuition and room and board, and go to class for so many days, when they could have just read the text and learned as much, or should I say I assume they could have learned as much. Anyway, that is how things were in the college of education I attended many years ago, and it is from that pool, and only that pool, that we have been taking our teachers. I sincerely hope that things have changed for the better, but when we tolerate a monopoly we shouldn't really expect much improvement.

So when I am critical of the performance of our schools, I try to look at all factors to see where the problems are. I think people who adamantly refuse to consider the possibility that the teaching needs improvement are being unrealistic, and by refusing to consider that aspect they are unlikely to achieve essential improvement in the performance of the schools.

[Gary Rice]

Mr. Brown,

I for one, appreciate your concerns about improving our public schools.

I find it most unfortunate that you experienced a less than satisfactory relationship with a teacher, even back when you were in college. I believe that most, if not all of us, probably feel that some of our teachers were better than others were, throughout our school years. Teachers, like the rest of the world, are human beings with the same abilities to excel or fall short at times, as the case may be.

That's why each teacher must face an ongoing appraisal process in the public schools.

There are always constructive steps to take when dealing with an unsatisfactory experience with any public person placed in a position of responsibility. There is an administrative review process available at all times, and it is imperative that administrators immediately be made aware of situations that might need to be corrected.

At the same time, teachers, police, fire, municipal, and other government workers do have the right to protection- with due process, and proper representation, to protect them from spurious or unfounded situations.

These days, the training process for teachers in the public schools is rigorous, especially with the Federal "highly qualified" academic mandates in place. There is an extensive process in place for the training of teachers. New teachers must undergo extensive appraisals for several years before being considered for tenure. Even tenured teachers are subject to ongoing scrutiny, licensure renewal coursework, and an ongoing review and appraisal process.

Whatever failings may have transpired in your college experience, even then, I would suspect that you had avenues of recourse available to you to correct what you felt to have been sub-standard teaching. If you were, after all, on track to become a teacher, I would have thought it to be incumbent on you to report what you felt was a less-than-effective teaching effort. Perhaps you did so. That is what I would have done.

As well, I wonder, since you reported the details of your educational degree, how well you were guided about going into that field, as you apparently did not remain in it for very long?

I really believe that effective counseling can go a long way towards helping to determine effective academic outcomes.

In my opinion, the Lakewood Public Schools repeatedly demonstrate a superlative level of instruction to a diverse population. Lakewood teachers, to me, represent some of the finest educators I know of. As a retired teacher from another district, I volunteer in the Lakewood Schools, so my favorable opinion is affirmed virtually every time I walk into a building.

I would also add that it is my impression that the new teachers coming out of their educational programs are better prepared than ever. In fact, I helped to prepare quite a few of them in my own classroom, back when I taught.

You mentioned that you like to look at all factors. I take you at your word, and would invite you to examine the rigor, vigor, and depth of educational training required of public school teachers today. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Sean Wheeler]

I took a terrible class in neurobiology once. The professor was inept. I can't believe neurosurgeons all receive such poor training.

[Justine Cooper]

Don't you mean

Whom are our teachers?

[dl meckes]

Probably not-

"Who" is a Subject Pronoun

"Who" is a subject pronoun like "he," "she" and "we" in the examples above. We use "who" to ask which person does an action or which person is a certain way.

Examples:

Who made the birthday cake?
Who is in the kitchen?
Who is going to do the dishes?
"Whom" is an Object Pronoun

"Whom" is an object pronoun like "him," "her" and "us." We use "whom" to ask which person receives an action.

Examples:

Whom are you going to invite?
Whom did he blame for the accident?
Whom did he hire to do the job?

[Justine Cooper]

LOL thanks DL but I was just being a smart---to a ridiculous post.

[dl meckes]

Sorry Justine... I was an English major.

I also used to have a quote on my high school notebooks...

"My teachers could have ridden with Jesse James for all the time they stole from me." -Richard Brautigan

[Sean Wheeler]

I'd be curious to know what "problems" Mr. Brown is talking about. In past posts, Mr. Brown has indicated that teachers are having trouble keeping order in the classroom (post about volunteers) and now seems to be making an assumption about the "problems" in our school.

Perhaps, before making assumptions about the schools, Mr. Brown might want to take a look at our graduation rates, state-mandated testing results, and the vast array of amazing programs available for our school children. While it might be popular to bash public education in certain political circles, it is unfortunate that these arguments get carried over to an assumption that our schools are somehow failing or problematic. The type of thinking exemplified by Mr. Brown's post is spectacularly uninfomed and easily remedied by a simple look at our results.

Could our schools be better? Sure. As in any profession, teachers should be consistently examining their methods, adjusting to situations that arise, and striving to meet the needs of both the community and the students.

I think a baseball metaphor works well here. We have had decades of people making fun of the Cleveland Indians. In fact, when traveling in Europe, I found that most people knew my hometown because there was a series of comic movies made about how poorly our baseball team has performed. But right now we've got a good team. We were one game away from the World Series and are serious contenders for the title again this year. How ridiculous would it sound to your ears if you heard a group of people constantly making remarks based upon the erronious notion that THIS team is the same team that has appeared in the movies? A simple look at our team's record would show that any criticism of this current team must at least start with the fact that the current team is actually performing quite well at present.

It is really discouraging to see continued attacks on our teachers and schools while we, the educators of this district, are continually knocking the ball out of the park when it comes to providing an excellent education.

While I understand that this is an open forum, I am deeply bothered by the continued criticism of a noble, and successful, effort. Especially posts that don't have a leg to stand on.

ps. The article was excellent. The Teach for America program is working well and is inspiring a generation of teachers. Look into Washington DC. The new superintendent is a product of this program and she has some incredible ideas concerning turning her failing district around. I was able to meet with the assistant superintendent of DC schools in January, and they are really becoming a progressive district. The article was a good read, but doesn't have much, if anything, to do with Lakewood schools.

[Justine Cooper]

I know almost anytime anyone posts anything about our schools, there is an almost reflexive response defending our teachers, and insisting our problems are due to other factors.

Let me start by saying I am certain there are some excellent teachers in Lakewood, but the idea that they are all ideal because they have completed some courses in education doesn't fly--

This makes me think that I am not alone in my belief that too many people who become teachers do so because they aren't competitive in their core fields.

Let me give one example. I transferred into the college of education and got my first degree there because, frankly, I wasn't interested in working too hard, and I could coast there and still get good grades. I recall the first educational psychology course I had to take. It was an early morning class, and I'm a night person, so we started off on the wrong foot, but in all honesty, if the course had been at all interesting, I would have enjoyed it. It was taught (I use the term loosely) by a Professor in the educational psychology department of the college of education, a lady who held a Phd, and was, I'm certain, paid as well as other Phds.

So when I am critical of the performance of our schools, I try to look at all factors to see where the problems are. I think people who adamantly refuse to consider the possibility that the teaching needs improvement are being unrealistic, and by refusing to consider that aspect they are unlikely to achieve essential improvement in the performance of the schools.

I know I shouldn't even reply to the actual post, and most wouldn't bother, but I have a couple questions that you probably won't answer, since it is easier to criticize than to back up facts.

1. Who said "all teachers are ideal'? I don't even think teachers would say that. I am sure there are some teachers flying under the radar, passing out worksheets, not utilizing strategies to teach to all children, engaging all children, encouraging all children, etc. And frankly, I don't want that for my child or any child. What I can attest to, and is one of the benefits of volunteering in your child's school, is observing excellence in teaching at Hayes. I also observed this at Roosevelt and then Emerson with my older child, and with some teachers at the high school. So I am wondering where you got quotes here on the deck that all teachers are ideal? I for one, didn't have a high number of amazing teachers, which is one reason I want to be one. In Lakewood, although I grumbled about it on another post, they do have extra requirements that other school districts don't have to try to ensure getting higher quality teachers. I am glad of that and see evidence of that.

2. Saying teachers become teachers because they don't succeed in their "core field" is a blanket critical generalization on every single teacher in the country. What if "children" are your core field? For many teachers, children are their core field and that was the most disgusting insult of all your posts. It gives closed minded a new definition.

3. Which bring me to three. Are you seriously taking one professor you had to tell the world that this is where the "pool" of all teachers come from? Did you ask for a refund from your community college? Probably not, because you paid for a passing grade, not a real education, and you got it. Congratulations. FYI most teachers in Lakewood have a master's degree or are working on one.

4. The government knew there was a problem in education, and even though I don't agree with the way NCLB is implemented, a large part is based on evidenced based research because part of the reading failure was due to ineffective instruction in schools. That is half the "environment" part you failed to realize. Either teachers had bad materials, overcrowded classrooms, or some just weren't effective, which is why the laws now dictate changes in teaching, leading to more education and better teaching today.

5. When you say you "look at all the factors" put your money where your mouth is. What factors have you looked at? Where have you taught and what Lakewood classrooms have you observed in?

you have obviously had a bad experience with your own schooling and your child's, so you have generalized ALL TEACHERS into one category as a result. Pretty brilliant analogy. Based on that, some bad experiences I have had with men would make all men the same?

[dl meckes]

Mr. Brown is offering some anecdotal evidence of his experience and expertise, but no facts presented for consideration.

I countered with an experience from high school. My viewpoint at that time surely demands the same serious discussion as a memory from Mr. Brown's past.

Mr. Brown decided that some teachers weren't very good and he could have been a teacher, so most teachers are probably not very competent.

It isn't a logical nor fact-based assertion.

Perhaps he would enjoy a round of Praxis examinations to prove his competency?

[Justine Cooper]

But DL, your experiences with teachers actually contradict his assertions, that all teaching was better years ago! You are clearly saying the opposite, and I totally agree with you. Getting an education degree today, means a lot of things, including learning several strategies to teach to children "outside of the norm", something that was not done years ago, with you and I, numerous assessments that weren't around years ago, a high incident of Autism and ADHD that wasn't around years ago, behavior problems much higher today than years ago because of drugs other issues that went on the rise, teaching to a much higher ELL population (and Lakewood has one of the highest non English speaking pops) and evidenced based research that you have to teach, that wasn't around years ago.

Today, you cannot stand in front of a classroom and just recite to children, there is much more required. You also cannot insult or discriminate with children, and have to know how to mainstream children with disabilities into a general education classroom, as well as teach to non English speaking children. The praxis is a very different vehicle for teachers today. And you still have to do well in student teaching, teaching a full semester without a salary, to get hired. Not so cut and dry asMr. Brown makes it.

Disclaimer: There were many excellent teachers years ago too, but stakes and education are much stricter now.

[Gary Rice]

In my opinion,

Citing real or imagined differences between teacher training "then" and "now" is not the point.

Teaching. to me, is as much about sublime intangibles, like caring and compassion, as it is, knowledge.

...and in my opinion, that has always been the case for good teachers.

A good teacher will hopefully inspire and guide curiosity, and love of learning.

That might not be an easy thing to do, but I think that's the mark of a fine teacher; whether from the past, or now.

[Justine Cooper]

And you are an example of a "good" one! You are right it is not about better or worse because that is completely opinions of people's personal experiences, but to answer Will's general "teaching used to be better" it needs to be noted that stakes are higher now for teachers with the legislations and entire staffs can get cut if they are not hitting the marks. Does that automatically make better teachers? No, because as you stated, compassion and caring override everything, and really good teachers have always known that.

It goes beyond even that though, knowing when to push your students to get the most from them, and knowing when not to push because they are sitting there with no socks and dirty clothes in the middle of winter, It is also about never getting so lazy that you can't find inventive and interactive ways to teach even the toughest kids. There is a lot more available to teachers today, which hopefully balances out the stricter standards they are forced to teach to, but at the end of the day, like parenting, teaching is still a balancing act, an art and a science.