Book Club Discussion-A Thousand Splendid Suns

[Lynn Farris]

Brad,

I think we were posting at the same time. I really understand your impression of Jalil - and I think you are right. It is sad that Mariam and Jalil were never able to make amends.

I also think you are right that enduring was the theme of the two women heroines in the book.

While all of these characters were complex and tragic. You may have more sympathy for Rasheed than I did. I would have agreed with you if his reaction had been just to ignore her and withdraw or take a second wife. But the rice and pebbles scene crossed the line for me and the evil in him seemed to come out - that was tremendously cruel.

[Brad Hutchison]

I was afraid my comments about Rasheed would come across as sympathetic. I didn't mean them to be, not in the same way I'm sympathetic toward Jalil. I was more just trying to respond to the specific question, about whether or not Rasheed's violence was foreshadowed, and I don't think that we had reason to believe he was inherently a bad guy. But the consistent disappointment and sorrow of the miscarriages, combined with his past - don't forget the tragedy in his own life - was too much for him. All that anger and rage manifested itself in a horrible, but, to a degree, socially acceptable, manner.

I suppose any sympathy - maybe empathy is a better word - I have for Rasheed is grounded in my feeling that, as I mentioned above, it is unfair to judge him outside of his own culture and society. I don't know. I'm struggling with this concept. No cultural norms make beating your wives OK, but Rasheed's character was that of a "typical" Afghan male - he spoke often about this or that being "within his rights." It was a matter of honor for him - he never beat his wives for sport. Does this make any sense?

I had forgotten about the pebbles scene - that was horrible.

[Lynn Farris]

I don't disagree with you Brad. There are aspects of Rasheeds life that were very sad. Maybe he had a lot to endure as well. His first wife's death, the death of his son. And the fact that his young wife kept miscarring was indeed a burden and sad.

You are right about the cultural norms. The way he complained about men that didn't control their wives. And Mariam felt loved and cherished that he wanted to protect her from other men.

But it wasn't the scenes where he beat his wives that bothered me - the two biggest times they had pretty much violated the cultural standards for that society - it was the day to day small cruelties that got to me - much like Miram's mother. Saying his new wife was a Benz and his old wife was the old Soviet car. Just constant putdowns. And if he would have just stopped with the beatings - I could have seen my way to be more sympathetic - it was leaving them without water including his daughter for so long. That bothered me too.

[Brad Hutchison]

You're right Lynn - Rasheed was capable of terrible acts of cruelty. At the same time, he tolerated Aziza, even showed her a few moments of affection, when he would have been "within his rights" to do something terrible. He was capable of gentleness and affection with Zalmai, and , at least initially, with each of wives.

I don't think we really think that differently about Rasheed. Perhaps I feel willing to give "Rasheed the individual" some slack, instead indicting "Rasheed the cultural norms he represents" in the book. The way many woman are treated in Afghanistan is terrible, but change in that area needs to begin on a societal level before individuals will follow.

[Jennifer Frank]

Sorry I didn't respond to my own questions sooner, I'm dealing with a sick six year old here at home. But it is interesting to read your responses, Brad and Lynn. Here are my answers:

1. What were your impressions of the relationships betweeen Mariam, her mother (Nana), and Jalil in Part One?

I also was a bit sympathetic toward Jalil. I think that he was doing the best that he felt that he could for his daughter: a place to live, food, gifts, visits, etc. However, it was clear that he was ahamed of her or more likely ashamed of himself for getting into such a predictament. However, I admired Mariam for taking a stand and going to town to see him, but you have to wonder how life would have turned out for her had she not gone or if he had welcomed her into his home.

The character of Nana reminds me of some people I currently know who always see the negative side of life no matter what. Yes, she had reason to be depressed, but she acted so harshly toward Mariam at times. It was interesting that Mullah Faizullah talked to Mariam following her mother's death, and he mentioned how Nana was unhappy, even as a little girl. As a side note Mullah Faizullah was a character that I adored-I believe that he represented how a true follower of the Muslim faith should behave.

2. Mariam's mother tells her: "Women like us. We endure. It's all we have." How does this sentiment inform Mariam's life and relate to the larger themes of the novel?

Yes Brad, this does certainly seem to be THE THEME of the novel. The novel constantly places these female characters in increasingly difficult situations, and it seems that all that they can do is to carry on (endure).

3. What were you impressions of Mariams's marriage to Rasheed in Part One, both before and after the miscarriages? Did you predict based on his behavior early in the book the violence that was to follow later?

When Mariam first came home with Rasheed I was almost pleasantly surprised, I expected him to be boorish from the beginning. I think his consideration for her at the beginning of their marriage made his change in behavior as the book went on even more difficult to imagine being in Mariam's situation. Lynn I agree about the horror of the rice and pebbles, that was a definite turning point-the beginning of the end...

[Lynn Farris]

Jennifer you said:

As a side note Mullah Faizullah was a character that I adored-I believe that he represented how a true follower of the Muslim faith should behave.

I absolutely agree.

[Brad Hutchison]

The character of Nana reminds me of some people I currently know who always see the negative side of life no matter what. Yes, she had reason to be depressed, but she acted so harshly toward Mariam at times.

This is true, and I felt the same way you did. But I think, by the end, Mariam would have disagreed with us. What did her mother say that didn't turn out to be true for Mariam? I alluded to this in my above responses, but I think that Mariam really understood her mother by the end, and knew she was right.



I'm always afraid discussing the next book will kill discussion of this one, but I just want to see what everyone thinks. Unless there's someone out there who is ready to stop peeking in the windows (looking at you, Sharon) and come into the book club, then I guess it's my turn again. What I'd like to know from you, Jennifer and Lynn, is whether you enjoyed reading and discussing a novel or would like to return to nonfiction. For my two cents, I think this was our best discussion to date, though I don't know if that is a result of it being our first fiction. I really don't care either way, though I believe some nonfiction lends itself to discussion better than others.

I will also reiterate the call for anyone interested to please join us. If you join this week we might even let you pick the book!

[Jennifer Frank]

Brad, I see what you are saying about Mariam's life being similar to what her mother predicted. However, even if Mariam came to better understand her mother, I felt that she had a more uplifting spirit about her. For example, how she related to Aziza in such a positive and rewarding relationship.

As for the next book, maybe fiction is better for discussion because there is more room for personal interpretation. Nonfiction by its very definition is much more "matter of fact". Being factual may leave less room for discussion. Just a thought.... In any event, I do agree that this has been a good discussion, and I have even more questions to follow:

4. The driver who took Babi, Laila, and Tariq to the Giant Buddhaa above the Bamiyan Valley describes the crumbling fortress of Shar-e-Zohak as "the strory of our country, one invader after another...we're like those walls up there. Battered, and nothing pretty to look at, but still standing." Discuss how this relates to Mariam and Laila and how their story reflects Afghanistan's history.

5. Discuss how Laila's relationships with her parents later impact her relationships with Rasheed and Mariam and her own children.

6. This book took place from the 1960's through present day. Did the timing of this book have an impact on you?

7. What were you impressions when Abdul Sharif visited Laila after her accident and shared his news about Tariq?

[Jennifer Frank]

Here are my responses:

4. The driver who took Babi, Laila, and Tariq to the Giant Buddhas above the Bamiyan Valley describes the crumbling fortress of Shar-e-Zohak as "the strory of our country, one invader after another...we're like those walls up there. Battered, and nothing pretty to look at, but still standing." Discuss how this relates to Mariam and Laila and how their story reflects Afghanistan's history.

First of all when they arrived at this sight I remember my stomach sinking as I recalled the news footage from when the Taliban blew up the Buddhas. I knew that this perfect afternoon that Babi, Laila, and Tariq were having, indeed this idyllic moment in their lives, was not to last. Just as the statues were later blown apart, so were the lives of these people.

I see the author's meaning in this quote and how Mariam and Laila have endured so much yet they continue on. Similarly Afghanistan has been through so much war and turmoil. Each time a new group emerges as part of its leadership/controlling party, it seems to be even more damaging than the last group in power. The United States is just one more group waging war within this country, and the continual fighting seems to have had devastating results in Afghanistan.

5. Discuss how Laila's relationships with her parents later impact her relationships with Rasheed and Mariam and her own children.

Laila's mother was devastated and depressed by the loss of her sons. She essentially could not care for Laila for the majority of her life. This led Laila to become much more emotionally attached to her father than maybe another Afghan girl would have been. It also led to her affection for Tariq. Because her mother was unavailable, Laila's relationship with Tariq probably developed much more deeply than a more involved mother would have allowed.

Since Laila had such a loving relationship with her dad and Tariq, I don't think that she had any idea of the type of cruelty and violence that later existed in her marriage to Rasheed. I thought that she expected her to treat her with kindness and take care of her once they were married.

Because of Laila's independence from her mother, I think that she was able to exist in the household with Mariam for quite some time without interacting with her. Laila's childhood was a constant exercise in co-existing with someone without relating to them. However, Laila's friendship begins with Mariam when she defends Mariam from a beating from Rasheed. After this she begins to interact with her more as one of the friends she had lost, or as the mother figure she wished she had.

Also, knowing how distant her mother had been with her, Laila seems to make extraordinary efforts to be involved with her own children. Even to the point of risking beatings to visit her daughter in the orphanage.

6. This book took place from the 1960's through present day. Did the timing of this book have an impact on you?

Throughout the book, I was constantly reminded how different this culture is from our own. One of the chapters had the date of "April 2001". This was the month and year that my son was born. I was so struck by how different my life and the lives of my children are from the women and children of Afghanistan. This was the chapter in which Laila had to take Aziza to the orphanage because the family could not feed her, and they kept her brother at home over her. While I was welcoming a beautiful son into my family who has every opportunity available to him, Afghan people were starving and dying.

7. What were you impressions when Abdul Sharif visited Laila after her accident and shared his news about Tariq?

At the time I wondered if his "news" was a hoax, but I couldn't believe that anyone could be so cruel. I was saddly proven to be correct in my thoughts.

[Lynn Farris]

4. The driver who took Babi, Laila, and Tariq to the Giant Buddhaa above the Bamiyan Valley describes the crumbling fortress of Shar-e-Zohak as "the strory of our country, one invader after another...we're like those walls up there. Battered, and nothing pretty to look at, but still standing." Discuss how this relates to Mariam and Laila and how their story reflects Afghanistan's history.

I think it is a pretty apt description. what is sad is that those Buddhas are now gone forever for the world.

5. Discuss how Laila's relationships with her parents later impact her relationships with Rasheed and Mariam and her own children.
She was raised wtih respect and to become someone. She wasn't as willing as Mariam to give up. She convinced Mariam to try to leave - didn't work. She fought Rasheed off. She ultimately came out fullfilling her destiny of doing something worthwhile for her country. After writing this I read your answer. I was thinking of her mother at the begining - not during her depression about her sons.

6. This book took place from the 1960's through present day. Did the timing of this book have an impact on you? Oh yes, that is why I posted the RAWA site. It is unbelievable that woman are living like this today. If a country treated blacks like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia treats woman - the world would protest. But since it is woman and they are doing it in some perverted view of religion (we know not the one discussed in the Faith Club.) it is okay. Alright I'll get off my soapbox.

7. What were you impressions when Abdul Sharif visited Laila after her accident and shared his news about Tariq?I believed him and I was incredibly sad. for Laila who should have gone with him in the first place.

[Lynn Farris]

Maybe Fiction is better as it may appeal to more people. I have had lots of people tell me they were reading this book.

One of the things I have really liked about this group is you have made me stretch and read books I would not have selected on my own. As an aside, my son who is in college is always suggesting that I read some of his books - some of them are classics that I have never read and I'm always blown away by reading with him as well. The chance to see someone else's perspective is great. Three of my favorites that he suggested I read were Conrad's Heart of Darkness, Coetzee - Disgrace and Candide by Voltaire. However I normally read mysteries if left to my own selection and I'm not too ashamed to admit I love Janet Evanovich. So I'm pretty open.

My suggestions are:
1) readily available. For the Dali Llama's book (my suggestion) I had to go to Mayfield to find it in stock.

2) Maybe we should select paperback so that it is less expensive for more people?

3) I have really enjoyed the different culture aspect of what we are reading. I looked at the Nobel Prize winners in Literature. They are a good group. I looked at the New York times list. Actually I wasn't as blown away by them. They are dominated by Oprah's list - which may be great books but I don't know how many people have already read them.

[Brad Hutchison]

As for the next book, maybe fiction is better for discussion because there is more room for personal interpretation. Nonfiction by its very definition is much more "matter of fact". Being factual may leave less room for discussion.

This was exactly what I was thinking when I asked. Some nonfiction is better for discussion than others, but we'll stick to fiction for now. Lynn had some great ideas too - I think about it and put forth some suggestions.

[Brad Hutchison]

4. The driver who took Babi, Laila, and Tariq to the Giant Buddhaa above the Bamiyan Valley describes the crumbling fortress of Shar-e-Zohak as "the strory of our country, one invader after another...we're like those walls up there. Battered, and nothing pretty to look at, but still standing." Discuss how this relates to Mariam and Laila and how their story reflects Afghanistan's history.

I don't really know much Afghan history other than what's in the book, but the driver's quote becomes an excellent analogy for Laila's and Mariam's lives.

5. Discuss how Laila's relationships with her parents later impact her relationships with Rasheed and Mariam and her own children.

Laila stood up to Rasheed a lot more than Mariam did, and I attributed that to the differences in their upbringing. Laila was educated and grew up believing she could be and do anything. Mariam grew up being told that she would never be or do anything.

6. This book took place from the 1960's through present day. Did the timing of this book have an impact on you?

Not really. However, as a student of history, I was interested to see all of those events unfold. I remember as a kid the Soviets being in Afghanistan, and I remember the word Mujahideen, and of course the Taliban, and I thought it was interesting to see the connection of those events and who all these people were.

7. What were you impressions when Abdul Sharif visited Laila after her accident and shared his news about Tariq?

Actually, that came at a time in the story when there was so much other tragedy going on, I was kind of numb to Tariq's "death." I just kind of viewed it as a literary device to bring Laila and Mariam together. It wasn't until after Tariq came back and we realized Laila had been duped that the horror of Rasheed and Abdul Sharif's lie really set in with me. Everything she had been through, everything she had endured, and he was still alive all that time.


Sorry if I duplicated anyone's answers, but I always like to give mine before I read yours.

[Brad Hutchison]

So I googled "cultural fiction" and actually came up with quite a few lists. Some I was intrigued by:

Raise the Red Lantern by Su Tong - "Three novellas about some of the darker elements of modern Chinese life in the 1920s, 30s and 40s."

The Chinese Maze Murders: A Judge Dee Mystery by Robert van Gulik - This guy was a Dutch diplomat and expert on Chinese history, who translated an actual 18th century Chinese detective story (called Dee Gong An) featuring Judge Dee, a real person in Chinese history. He then went on to write several novels based on ancient Chinese stories and casebooks - this is the first of the novels. I thought this sounded interesting, especially given Lynn's penchant for mysteries.

something by Chinua Achebe - I read Things Fall Apart in college and really enjoyed it, plus we haven't done anything involving Africa. After a quick browse of some of his other titles, a few caught my attention:

No Longer at Ease (foreign educated man loses touch with African roots and returns as part of corrupt ruling elite);

A Man of the People (forshadows Nigerian coup of 1966);

Arrow of God (father vs. son struggle in tribal regions of Nigeria).


Anything look interesting?

[Lynn Farris]

My first reaction was to go straight for the African books. I have read a lot of African books and have always been amazed by them - but never any by this author and I don't believe any about Nigeria. The one No Longer at Ease to me sounded the best - but they all sounded good.

Then I looked at the The Chinese Maze Murders and that sounded right up my alley.

Either of them is fine with me. Or both one this month and one the next. But if anyone out there, particularily people who are thinking about joining have other ideas. that is great with me too.