The Medical Mart Plan Makes No Sense Too Me

[Bill Call]

I guess I am missing something. If anyone out there can provide better answers than those that I found in the Plain Dealer please weigh in.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf/2008/03/20/

Apparently the County will pay $800 million dollars over a twenty year period to build the Convention Center.

The County will pay Merchandise Mart $103 million to run the convention center.

The Merchandise Mart gets to keep any revenue generated by the convention center.

If the Merchandise Mart has a bad year and can’t get enough business it just walks away.

Just what is in it for the County?

[Jeff Endress]

Bill

It's one of those weird moments.....but reading the story, I had EXACTLY the same reaction. Unvoted County taxes to pay for the construction....overseen by the tennant. County to pay the tennant to run the facility. Tennant to keep profits from facility. Oh yeah, Med Mart kicks in 20 mill. Seems like a pretty scewed deal from that basic review.

But then I forgot the part not covered in the story, and I think I understand. Med Mart will cause a complete turnaround for CLeveland! Jobs, visitors, revenues...people riding on the Euclid corridor trams, new hotels, cheaper gas, reduction in crime, Browns in the super bowl, Indians World Series, long term LeBron contract, a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage!

Clearly the PD is thrilled. Don't ask any hard questions. The Commisioners are thrilled...great to do this by fiat. I suppose Nance is thrilled...love to see the bill for negotiating this deal. And I'll bet the powers behind Forest City will be thrilled once they announce a Tower City site. I can only hope that one of the displays centers around colonics, 'cause we sure got one.

Jeff

[Dee Martinez]

Im a little skeptical about this too. Smells too much like the Rock Hall of fame. If the medical equipment industry needed a mart, wouldnt they have already built one? If you are manufacteuring MRI machines in Orlando why are you going to make your customers go to Cleveland to see it? Do hospitals and doctors offices really equip their offices all at once, like honeymooners in a new house?

Was there competition for this thing and thats why the tax dollars going to it?
Or is this something Cuyahoga County decided the medical industry needed? Someone smart needs to explain this to me (and obviously not just me)

[Valerie Molinski]

When they explained the deal on the radio (npr) yesterday, it went through who pays whom, who leases through whom, who leases BACK and pays whom, and on and on...

The first words out of my mouth to my husband was "who thought of THIS money laundering scheme??"

It doesn't make a lot of sense and I think that, unless this thing wildly successful, I do believe the county is going to get the short end of the stick on this one and I don't believe is it going to be this huge windfall and change agent that some people are making it out to be.

[Brian Pedaci]

Glad I'm not the only one scratching my head over this. Can't wait to see what Roldo has to say about it.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

smells like the rock hall..

If it's anything like the Rock Hall then we'll be ok.

Bus tours, out of country visitors, out of state visitors, in state visitors, all come to the Rock Hall on a regular basis. I remember when my uncle was here from Germany he had a travel book for America, and every city had about 2-3 pages if not more of stuff to see. Cleveland had one tiny paragraph with the Rock Hall photo on it.

Not to mention starting 2009, the induction ceremony will be made here in Cleveland.

If I remember correctly, Mr.Demro was very passionate about getting this on the ballot. He had a ton of information. But I think that the medical field is one worth betting on because there is always a need for equipment and workers. Knowing how many of my classmates are going into Pre-Med to become Doctors, I think the next 20 years won't be as scary as if we were opening a.."auto mart" that would be doing the same thing with cars.

Overall I think it's a risk, one that doesn't make too much sense, but the risk could be bigger if it wasn't a MEDICAL Mart.

[Shawn Juris]

Isn't this the nature of the beast these days? I know that here in Lakewood we scoff at the audacity of places like Avon Lake, Solon or Westlake for having the nerve to give a business tax abatements or land to convince them to open shop but it's reality. It's a good question if there were other places in competition and honestly I don't know. In general though I accept this for what it is. For one it is a good idea. As Ivor said it attracts visitors to the area. While entertainment districts and major sports teams are fine and good they don't necessarily import revenue. They just move money from the residents to the sports teams, the bar owners and the parking lots. So this would import money... good. Second we've got to get past the pining for the steel mills and get on to something new. With the hospitals and research from CWRU this seems to be a good fit.
I also accept that this party who was negotiating my side as a taxpayer was a beauracrat and I've never expected them to be competent or have a tight grasp on the bottom line. We're also not exactly negotiating from a position of power at this point.
So now that its done what is Lakewood (private and public) going to do to use this to our benefit?

[Dee Martinez]

smells like the rock hall..

If it's anything like the Rock Hall then we'll be ok.

Bus tours, out of country visitors, out of state visitors, in state visitors, all come to the Rock Hall on a regular basis. I remember when my uncle was here from Germany he had a travel book for America, and every city had about 2-3 pages if not more of stuff to see. Cleveland had one tiny paragraph with the Rock Hall photo on it.

Not to mention starting 2009, the induction ceremony will be made here in Cleveland.

.

The Rock Hall wasnt sold in 1995 as something that would get us "one tiny paragraph." It was sold as something that would "turn the city around," a "major element to downtown's revitalization," yada yada.
15 years later and how many tax dollars later, well finally get the induction ceremonies. Yay.

The Rock Hall is a nice little tourist attraction, but it was sold to us as something much bigger than that.

I dont think you are appreciating exactly how often in the last 30 years,, people around here have been told "pay for this and were on our way!"
Gateway, Tower City, the Browns Stadium, Playhouse Square,, the Eiuclid Corridor, the Rock Hall,the RTA line that connected the Flats (remember the Flats?) to the Rock Hall, the I-X Center (although to be fair, that did not suck in tax dollars,, it was just a political football), expansion of Hopkins, It just goes on.

My prediction is that we will pay for a medical mart that the industry will nominally use for a while, while MRIs will be bought and sold at conventions in Vegas.

[Jeff Endress]

Shawn

I, for one, aren't pining for the steel mills. But I'm also disinclined to take the attitude that we need to spend this HUGE amount of tax money for the promise of importing money. Looks like the County is going to be spending around 45 million per year of our money.....Based on that, will we ever even reach a break even with the imported visitor's funds?

But, you're right. It is a reality. How do we best leverage that to our benefit? Open B & B's in Clifton Park.

Jeff

[Shawn Juris]

Dee,
You may well be correct that it will be used for a short time and in the end the purchases will be made in Vegas. We can't compete on that scale of attraction for a convention. If that does happen though, in the end we have the renovated convention center that has been sought after for a good number of years. The cost and was it worth it? I'm not certain. Could well be more than it should be but the alternative as I see it is to not bring in the Med Mart. What would that offer? More of the same, ignore that we have world class hospitals and a top universities that are quickly forgotten and severely underappreciated in the local economy.

As far as the other projects that were supposed to save the city, imagine Cleveland without 3 sports teams that play downtown in new facilities, the theater district without their updates, not having the west bank or the Warehouse district and all of the residential growth that happened as a result of the first wave of the entertainment district in the flats. It would have just been vacant office buildings with nothing else to offer. Galleria and Tower City shopping were both major disappointments in my mind but with any luck both structures will become occupied again with tenants that appreciate their architecture and benefits. If it wasn't for this progress, this poorest city in America would have been even worse. Sometimes just keeping your seat at the table is enough to catch another winning hand.

[Jeff Endress]

Could well be more than it should be but the alternative as I see it is to not bring in the Med Mart. What would that offer? More of the same, ignore that we have world class hospitals and a top universities that are quickly forgotten and severely underappreciated in the local economy

OH ! I know! (franticly raising his hand) OH! call on me!

Rather than turning tens of millions a year over to a private development who will reap the profits on the deal I would:
1) In vest the taxpayers money in the safety forces, and hire more cops,
2) Invest the money in saving declining housing stock,
3) Invest the money in infastructure,
4) Invest the money in schools
5) Maybe give CC and LeBron the deals they need to stay

Using these taxpayer funds in such a way would have a direct impact on the very problems that cause people to flee the Cetral City. Investing in this private enterprise offers the hope that similar benefits might occur as a result of an economic boom fueled by the project. I'd prefer to take a direct, rather this indirect approach that promises, after a long time, the hope of similar results.

Jeff

[Dee Martinez]

Shocking as it may sound I CAN envision Cleveland without sports teams or Playhouse Square or downtown condos. I can also envision Cuyahoga Ccunty with a sales tax thats nearing 8 percent but is still one of the Top 10 counties i the US LOSING population.

What weve been doing just isnt working. And nothing were doing is making it better, just more expensive.
How many people have stayed in Lakewood because of the Indians or Browns or Playhouse Square?
I dont have a fantasy about steel mills or Ford plants either. Im just feeling that, if theres a profit to be made in something, why does the government have to pay for it?

[Brad Hutchison]

Nothing anybody ever does in Cleveland is going to make a bit of difference until there is anything to do on the waterfront. That's an asset we have that can separate us from other cities, but we do nothing with it. Any city can build a nice convention center, including many with better weather than we have. But the one thing we have that few other cities can claim provides nothing in the way of attractions.

If someone called you and was looking to book a weeklong convention in downtown Cleveland, and wanted to know what their people could do when they weren't convening, what would you tell them? Most of the answers you can give wouldn't even take the person within sight of the Lake.

[Bill Call]

It's not going to happen and I'm wasting my time suggesting it but what if we had spent that $3 billion on making Cleveland part of the international world market instead of subsidizing sports star salaries, new bus lanes along Euclid, new convention centers, new jails and new county administration buildings?

see

http://nationaljournal.com/brownstein.htm

[sharon kinsella]

Development in the flats did not reap us big bucks twenty years ago, the warehouse district is a big yuppy bust.

Bad money after bad money.