News Release from Chief Tim Malley

[Stephen Eisel]

Even without guns, humans would still find ways to kill each other. Would the crime of murder disappear with the banning of guns? The problem is the human not the gun.

[Gary Rice]

dl.

I wish the answers were easy.

and I'll amplify Bret's positive thoughts with a few of my own.

Keeping politics OUT of the situation....

If people feel that they MUST own a gun, at least be responsible owners. Don't let everyone know where the thing is, and keep it in a secure place.

Trigger-locks and combination gun safes are available.

Remember too, all you trigger-happy types, that as Jim said, if you use it even in self-defense, your life will probably be full of woe for many years.

If you don't want the gun, please think about where it will end up. The police can dispose of it for you. Don't have it end up in the hands of someone who might abuse it.

The recent difficulty with background checks and mental competency showed another area that needed improvement with our system.

The reality is that criminals will always get guns. Learn how to identify and avoid potentially troubling situations before they arise. Stay out of hot spots, whenever you can avoid it. If you feel that you can learn to resist an attacker, take a self-defense course.

And finally, if you do wish to hunt, or shoot recreationally, take a course (for hunting- I believe that's the law for younger hunters)

[Jim O'Bryan]

The reality is that criminals will always get guns. Learn how to identify and avoid potentially troubling situations before they arise. Stay out of hot spots, whenever you can avoid it. If you feel that you can learn to resist an attacker, take a self-defense course.

Even without guns, humans would still find ways to kill each other. Would the crime of murder disappear with the banning of guns? The problem is the human not the gun.

Oh




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[Stephen Eisel]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

Banning does not seem to work either

[Jim DeVito]

Even without guns, humans would still find ways to kill each other. Would the crime of murder disappear with the banning of guns? The problem is the human not the gun.

At least without guns it would be a fair fight.

[Gary Rice]

Jim,

I believe that I understand your position quite well regarding guns, and apparently by extension, personal self-defense.

Therefore, how would you propose to handle a hypothetical situation where you feel that your life will be endangered if you do not take immediate action of some kind?

Sometimes, it comes down to a basic survival decision.

Are you saying that people should not prepare for these things? Should they always simply submit to their attacker?

That's the problem in a nutshell. We assume rationality on the part of the attacker. How do we respond if there is irrationality involved? If we feel that our lives are on the line?

What say you?

[Jim O'Bryan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

Banning does not seem to work either

Stephen

Whew, thank god you found that tidbit.

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[Stephen Eisel]

Even without guns, humans would still find ways to kill each other. Would the crime of murder disappear with the banning of guns? The problem is the human not the gun.

At least without guns it would be a fair fight.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight

[Jim O'Bryan]

Gary

I am dying to see the numbers of those people that stopped an attack, outside the home, because they had a handgun.

Police do not count.

I cannot think of many times in my entire life where it said, "Thank god he was packing..."

I am willing to bet, the number of times, some cowboy pulls his gun and gets shot by it, or beat with it is 2 to 1 if not higher.

The hang gun thing is not working out, period. I would buy into target shooting, have done it. Self defense, work, a solid reason. Let's not forget I used to carry a hand gun until my lawyer begged me not to.

In the home, shotgun is the only weapon that makes sense. Preferably with very loud action. Nothing like hearing a shotgun get ready to scare criminals. Dogs are nice too.

Now let's look at the numbers of people hurt with guns by accidents, or stolen, or misused to deadly effect. Your NRA and safety is like the crack dealer telling junior, not a lighter it will burn your fingers, use one of those little torches.

In my mind, the legal, responsible, honest gun owner, will always lose the draw battle with the desperado. He has no gun lock, bullets in the weapon, already out and pointed at you, no regards for life or family, and pretty desperate already.

Bang dead.

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This was edited by me, for a reason that was sent through personal email.


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[Todd Shapiro]

Jim,

With all due respect I find your idea of solving Lakewood's crime and drug problem with a $1,000 fee on rental units to be prejudicial and stupid. Of course, that cost will be passed on to the renters. So my roommate and myself who have never had the police called on us, committed a crime ( I am not sure if the red light I ran on Detroit 4 years ago constitutes a crime), or used or sold illegal drugs should pay another $80 a month to pay for those that cause trouble. to that I say B.S. In the past two years I have had five different friends move out of Lakewood for apartments or houses in the West Park or old Brooklyn area of Cleveland. I hope this plan isn't your idea to drive more people back into Cleveland

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

With all due respect I find your idea of solving Lakewood's crime and drug problem with a $1,000 fee on rental units to be prejudicial and stupid.

I hope this plan isn't your idea to drive more people back into Cleveland

Todd

You know me too well to believe that.

I hope.

It is not just to address crime, it also help with housing stock.

Of course it gets passed down, but you also in theory, gets you safer streets, and better living quarters.

What is that worth?


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[Gary Rice]

Jim,

Your point about the criminal being more experienced is spot-on.

Plus, they will have the element of surprise in their favor.

As your attorney pointed out, guns are often far more trouble than they're worth.

And please, "my NRA?" Come on Jim. Believe it or not, that organization was in fact, chartered by an Act of Congress. Let someone else deal with the political side of that situation.

"My" discussion concerned educational programs.

A positive topic not discussed here, but one that needs bringing up, concerns alarm systems; particularly those having inside panic buttons and audible warnings.

Deterrence is often the best defense. At the least, valuable seconds can be bought, and hopefully, the intruder will quickly leave the scene.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Use a gun for a crime, see ya.

Violent criminals in jail, long time.

Non-violent criminals, are more then welcome to maintain my streets.

Hard time if violent and a threat to society

Hard labor while living at home and paying taxes for the rest.

Innstatnly no new jail are needed, and we would not have to take care of the ones we have. Let them sort it out.

FWIW

[Kevin Galvin]

Jim,

While your lawyer was probably correct about the variety of legal proceedings that will most likely result from a civilian shooting in self defense, there is an old adage that keeps lawyers in business. It is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

While I certainly would not advocate an untrained person carrying a firearm I am for the carry law. To get a permit a person must undergo training. I would rather that people who decide to defend themselves with a weapon, even if only in their home, take some type of training.

You are correct that people are injured by their own gun or when they mishandle it. You asked about statistics regarding injuries sustained by people who attempt to use a gun in self-defense and I have none to offer. I can tell you that the stats would not tell the whole story even if I had them.

As you have offered in the past, criminals don't like crowds. They would rather grab the purse of the woman on Madison because there weren't a lot of people around. If a couple of adult males had been walking towards them, they probably would not have grabbed the purse. From a statistical standpoint, they would not have reported that they did not commit a crime. Who can say whether or not they were going to rob a woman earlier and passed her by because of too many people being around? What I'm saying is that there is no way of knowing how many crimes did not happen because the thug(s) weren't sure if the target was armed. I'm sure the guy on the east side who killed the kid trying to rob him was seen as an easy touch walking down the streets with a bag of groceries. Just my two cents.

Regarding people who make comments regarding "if these guns weren't made", you need to get back to reality. Even if every gun was melted down, no companies made them, every reference was removed from the Internet and all books, people would still make guns. Prisoners make them in jail using the most innovative methods. Granted the volume of guns would be less but the people making them in underground factories would not be overly concerned with who purchased them. I don't have the answer by any stretch but wishing guns didn't exist is fruitless.

[Jim O'Bryan]

JRegarding people who make comments regarding "if these guns weren't made", you need to get back to reality. Even if every gun was melted down, no companies made them, every reference was removed from the Internet and all books, people would still make guns. Prisoners make them in jail using the most innovative methods. Granted the volume of guns would be less but the people making them in underground factories would not be overly concerned with who purchased them. I don't have the answer by any stretch but wishing guns didn't exist is fruitless.

Kevin


If there is one thing I try to be is be a realist. Many do not see what I see, but believe it it gets mentally tossed around long before i gets out. While I have to admit, it is a dream, I think it is a dream we should try to live with. A reduce in trends would be marvelous.

How many are shot and killed by legal guns, opposed to illegal guns? I have to think the NRA would brag that illegal guns kill people. Does this not underline the problem, they are everywhere, they are too easy to get, and the whole system has broken down.

Criminals will always find ways to kill, hurt rob, whatever. Do we have to make it easy and cheap too? My single biggest problem with the NRA, they have become nothing more than a lobbying group, who collect membership fees from gun owners and millions from gun manufacturers. Now a very distasteful lobbying group, like cigarettes.

Using your logic, heroin should be legal, especially this year, as it will be more prevalent, and cheaper than ever before. Thanks to the wonderful work of the American government. So why make it illegal, license it, and set up shops. Let people legally use it. Crack, even more prevalent, cheaper, and easier to get should be the same.

I do not buy it. I understand all you are saying, agree with some, but in totality I do not buy it.

This hand gun thing is not working.


My opinion and thoughts.



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