And what would I be a candidate for Kevin - new to me!
Never have been - never will be.
CALLING OUT ALL CANDIDATES!
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
While Ms. Kinsella may elect to impose a “racist†register in hearing Mr. Bullock’s expression about “protecting our borders,†I believe she is needlessly injecting a confusing hot-button emotional issue that belies the common-sense recognition - The culture of chaos and crime is threatening our community.
There is certainly a danger that whites will blame blacks for any problems with crime - real or imagined. But trustworthy people as well as politicians are witnessing self-indulgent, out-of-control and in some cases criminal behavior on the rise in Lakewood.
Maybe it's not on your street, but the murderous antics of a nihilistic dope dealer in a parking lot off “Main Street,†tell me our borders need protecting and Mr. Bullock is on the mark.
It’s no secret that illiteracy, idleness and illegitimacy breed violent and impoverished environments. Lawless economic losers in Cleveland seek gains in Lakewood; they prey on Lakewood and other places.
Effective policing demands that the borders be patrolled and secured.
It is absurd, I believe, to inject the race card into what for many is a common-sense recognition about crime and social decay that informs Mr. Bullock’s campaign.
A violent and impoverished environment not only surrounds us but its human products, some good and some damaged and dangerous, are being displaced and in some instances setting up shop here.
Let's not delude ourselves. Nor should we deny our racism nor the capacity for anti-white violence in the certain blacks. But claims of racism out of the box only serve to delude us and alienate ourselves from the serious task of sensible integration into functional community norms.
These norms are bred from literacy, work, and family structure.
The breakdown of any family - black or white - impedes mastery of such skills and values. When these commitments are lacking, protecting our borders and securing of lives and property from the social explosion of chaos and crime, no matter the color of the skin, with both police and neighborhood capital are the only response that makes sense to me.
Kenneth Warren
There is certainly a danger that whites will blame blacks for any problems with crime - real or imagined. But trustworthy people as well as politicians are witnessing self-indulgent, out-of-control and in some cases criminal behavior on the rise in Lakewood.
Maybe it's not on your street, but the murderous antics of a nihilistic dope dealer in a parking lot off “Main Street,†tell me our borders need protecting and Mr. Bullock is on the mark.
It’s no secret that illiteracy, idleness and illegitimacy breed violent and impoverished environments. Lawless economic losers in Cleveland seek gains in Lakewood; they prey on Lakewood and other places.
Effective policing demands that the borders be patrolled and secured.
It is absurd, I believe, to inject the race card into what for many is a common-sense recognition about crime and social decay that informs Mr. Bullock’s campaign.
A violent and impoverished environment not only surrounds us but its human products, some good and some damaged and dangerous, are being displaced and in some instances setting up shop here.
Let's not delude ourselves. Nor should we deny our racism nor the capacity for anti-white violence in the certain blacks. But claims of racism out of the box only serve to delude us and alienate ourselves from the serious task of sensible integration into functional community norms.
These norms are bred from literacy, work, and family structure.
The breakdown of any family - black or white - impedes mastery of such skills and values. When these commitments are lacking, protecting our borders and securing of lives and property from the social explosion of chaos and crime, no matter the color of the skin, with both police and neighborhood capital are the only response that makes sense to me.
Kenneth Warren
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Dan Shields
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:16 am
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Mr. Schwegler -
I find your post to be both uninformed and demeaning. You say that you do not know Tom or myself, you don't live in Ward 2, and you are not active in the Lakewood Democratic Club. And yet, somehow, you have an opinion of the value of the endorsement I have recieived.
My endorsement was hard fought and well deserved.
It represents a recognition that I have made a commitment of time and effort, on behalf of both the local party and for the state and national party as well. It means, in part, that I have spent countless hours working on behalf of many issues and candidates. Unless you are politically active (not just interested - ACTIVE), you would not know what that means.
If you were active and present at the Democratic Club meeting, you would know that Tom and I both sought the endorsement. I believe I received it because I presented well my history of civic involvement here in Lakewood, along with work done on behalf of the Club, as well as my ideas for dealing with the challenges facing Lakewood.
You asked if the endorsement makes me the better Democrat. Well, there were approximately a hundred people present who, in the end, think I'm doing a pretty good job thus far.
Maybe you don't understand the political process. That's fine. Are you active with any non-political organizations? Unless you can enlighten me as to some of the organizations for which you volunteer your time - actively - again, you cannot understand the endorsement, and shouldn't comment on it.
As the saying goes, don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes. Or in this case, stood with me for three or four hours holding a sign because you believe in a candidate or a cause.
Dan Shields
I find your post to be both uninformed and demeaning. You say that you do not know Tom or myself, you don't live in Ward 2, and you are not active in the Lakewood Democratic Club. And yet, somehow, you have an opinion of the value of the endorsement I have recieived.
My endorsement was hard fought and well deserved.
It represents a recognition that I have made a commitment of time and effort, on behalf of both the local party and for the state and national party as well. It means, in part, that I have spent countless hours working on behalf of many issues and candidates. Unless you are politically active (not just interested - ACTIVE), you would not know what that means.
If you were active and present at the Democratic Club meeting, you would know that Tom and I both sought the endorsement. I believe I received it because I presented well my history of civic involvement here in Lakewood, along with work done on behalf of the Club, as well as my ideas for dealing with the challenges facing Lakewood.
You asked if the endorsement makes me the better Democrat. Well, there were approximately a hundred people present who, in the end, think I'm doing a pretty good job thus far.
Maybe you don't understand the political process. That's fine. Are you active with any non-political organizations? Unless you can enlighten me as to some of the organizations for which you volunteer your time - actively - again, you cannot understand the endorsement, and shouldn't comment on it.
As the saying goes, don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes. Or in this case, stood with me for three or four hours holding a sign because you believe in a candidate or a cause.
Dan Shields
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Ken -
You of all people should understand the importance of words. There are buzz words, euphemisms and innuendo. These methods can be utilized to seem innocuous but set the stage for certain assumptions.
I am not an academic but I am an intelligent person who knows what harm language can cause.
We certainly do have problems in Lakewood, which is a mirror of our country. There is a huge resurgence of racism in our country and I see that reflected here. There is a book I just read which you may find helpful (from your library) it's called "Unspeak" by Steven Poole. I think you'll find it interesting.
Ken, I don't make things up or point out because I find it amusing. I really am concerned about what I see going on.
Do we want the Jena 6 debacle happening in Lakewood. Maybe, along with crime, we all need to talk about nipping racism in the bud.
You of all people should understand the importance of words. There are buzz words, euphemisms and innuendo. These methods can be utilized to seem innocuous but set the stage for certain assumptions.
I am not an academic but I am an intelligent person who knows what harm language can cause.
We certainly do have problems in Lakewood, which is a mirror of our country. There is a huge resurgence of racism in our country and I see that reflected here. There is a book I just read which you may find helpful (from your library) it's called "Unspeak" by Steven Poole. I think you'll find it interesting.
Ken, I don't make things up or point out because I find it amusing. I really am concerned about what I see going on.
Do we want the Jena 6 debacle happening in Lakewood. Maybe, along with crime, we all need to talk about nipping racism in the bud.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
Ms. Kinsella:
I do understand how language, economic, racial and social context all inform the semantics of campaign buzz in multiple registers.
I happen to believe the logic of territoriality must inform our efforts to secure our community from the criminal behavior that compounds not from race but from the displacement of a sociopathic core into low rent habitats.
I have no objection to the language Mr. Bullock has used to convey a thick message that resonates with me.
With death and sex drives running amuck, the dangerous, dehumanized and dehumanizing culture of male chauvinist pigs and pimps has been spreading across the black and white races in post-industrial America for decades.
As a social justice advocate, you know this to be so.
That’s the context, and it’s been a long time comin,’ and it’s starting to hit Lakewood harder than I’ve ever seen before.
While this is not any single Lakewood politician's fault, we are beginning to see campaigns spinning the signs and symptoms differently.
I’ll certainly be glad when the opportunity to generate political campaign capital from these very serious issues is over.
We are not going to nip racism in the bud by denying the neighborhood norms of Lakewood – norms bred from literacy, work, and family structure. Nor will we nip racism in the bud by needlessly imposing race on those uses of language, even in a campaign, that speak through the logic of territoriality to the need to secure borders and advance functional neighborhood norms.
There reasonable people who live in neighborhoods where the sociopathic effects of illiteracy, idleness and illegitimacy are blending with crime and racism. However much we cry for justice, the thick, festering matter of political and social life can’t be silenced, much less nipped so easily in the bud.
Kenneth Warren
I do understand how language, economic, racial and social context all inform the semantics of campaign buzz in multiple registers.
I happen to believe the logic of territoriality must inform our efforts to secure our community from the criminal behavior that compounds not from race but from the displacement of a sociopathic core into low rent habitats.
I have no objection to the language Mr. Bullock has used to convey a thick message that resonates with me.
With death and sex drives running amuck, the dangerous, dehumanized and dehumanizing culture of male chauvinist pigs and pimps has been spreading across the black and white races in post-industrial America for decades.
As a social justice advocate, you know this to be so.
That’s the context, and it’s been a long time comin,’ and it’s starting to hit Lakewood harder than I’ve ever seen before.
While this is not any single Lakewood politician's fault, we are beginning to see campaigns spinning the signs and symptoms differently.
I’ll certainly be glad when the opportunity to generate political campaign capital from these very serious issues is over.
We are not going to nip racism in the bud by denying the neighborhood norms of Lakewood – norms bred from literacy, work, and family structure. Nor will we nip racism in the bud by needlessly imposing race on those uses of language, even in a campaign, that speak through the logic of territoriality to the need to secure borders and advance functional neighborhood norms.
There reasonable people who live in neighborhoods where the sociopathic effects of illiteracy, idleness and illegitimacy are blending with crime and racism. However much we cry for justice, the thick, festering matter of political and social life can’t be silenced, much less nipped so easily in the bud.
Kenneth Warren
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Bryan Schwegler
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Dan,Dan Shields wrote:Mr. Schwegler -
I find your post to be both uninformed and demeaning. You say that you do not know Tom or myself, you don't live in Ward 2, and you are not active in the Lakewood Democratic Club. And yet, somehow, you have an opinion of the value of the endorsement I have recieived.
To call me uninformed is disingenuous at best as that's hardly the case. Based on all the discussions I've had with people, and confirmed by Ms Kinsella in this thread, is that the Lakewood Democratic Club chose the endorsement by secret ballot. Ms Kinsella even went as far to inform me in this thread that the Club itself can't say why it endorsed someone. only each person can tell you that.
If that's true, then I have every right to ask what the value of an endorsement is if the organization as a whole can't articulate why it was given. I can't help it if you feel the information I'm given is wrong, that doesn't make me uninformed, but rather misinformed. In either case your hostility is unnecessary.
Thank you. You are actually the first person who has been able to explain to me what the endorsement means.It represents a recognition that I have made a commitment of time and effort, on behalf of both the local party and for the state and national party as well. It means, in part, that I have spent countless hours working on behalf of many issues and candidates. Unless you are politically active (not just interested - ACTIVE), you would not know what that means.
I have to admit I'm a little turned off by the condescension in your question, but to answer your question, yes I do participate and volunteer in several organizations including:Maybe you don't understand the political process. That's fine. Are you active with any non-political organizations? Unless you can enlighten me as to some of the organizations for which you volunteer your time - actively - again, you cannot understand the endorsement, and shouldn't comment on it.
- Trinity Cathedral Council
- Trinity Cathedral High School Youth Leader
- Sunday Lunch for the Homeless
- West Shore Chorale
- Actively on the campaigns of two candidates for Lakewood offices
Dan, I would ask that you go back to read what I wrote in this thread. NEVER did I attack you or your candidacy. I simply questioned the value of the endorsement of this particular Club regardless of who got it. I would have question it for Joe Dangelo also who is in my ward. It was only brought up in reference to you because of Ms Kinsella's attack on Tom Bullock in this thread.As the saying goes, don't judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes. Or in this case, stood with me for three or four hours holding a sign because you believe in a candidate or a cause.
Dan Shields
My questioning came about as a result of the answers I received from Ms Kinsella in this thread and others that I know are part of the Democratic club. If you have a problem with misinformation, I suggest you take it up with her or the others in your club.
However, I'm disgusted that you felt the need to personally attack me in response. That is not the behavior I would have expected from someone who wants to represent people of all views in Lakewood. I'm thankful I live in Ward 3 where all 4 of our candidates are gracious and understanding of differences. They are a role model.
Never did I attack you personally, but you felt the need to do that to me. If you feel that I did somehow, I apologize for that, but I would suggest you were reading into my comments more than was there or implied.
Dan, if you met me in person, you would realize I'm one of the most open minded people you'd ever meet. I can only make judgments based on the information I'm given. Which if it was wrong in this case, I apologize if I offended you.
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Bryan -
I did not "misinform" you. You asked me specific questions about a whole group and I can't speak for the whole group. I did however speak about why I voted for Dan. I told you that I felt that Dan was the only person that was not putting out, what I consider to be a divisive message. That was my opinion, I do not consider myself the voice for the entire club.
However, I do support Dan by adding that when you vote for a particular issue or candidate, you do so because you believe, as an informed person, that it is right to support that person or issue based on your own criteria for yourself.
I did not "misinform" you. You asked me specific questions about a whole group and I can't speak for the whole group. I did however speak about why I voted for Dan. I told you that I felt that Dan was the only person that was not putting out, what I consider to be a divisive message. That was my opinion, I do not consider myself the voice for the entire club.
However, I do support Dan by adding that when you vote for a particular issue or candidate, you do so because you believe, as an informed person, that it is right to support that person or issue based on your own criteria for yourself.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Dan Shields
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:16 am
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Mr. Schwegler -
You state that you are working on the campaign of two Lakewood candidates? One of them wouldn't happen to be Tom Bullock, would it?
I have the right to respond to you. You claim to be open minded, but you attacked me, my candidacy and the Lakewood Democratic Club without knowing me or having participated in Club activities. And let's not play games - you are questioning the value of this endorsement. This is a city race, and these are the city Democrats who know and work with the both of us. They endorsed me.
If you want to put me on the defensive then you will hear from me in response.
You claim that you are being "attacked" as well by Sharon Kinsella, but she has told the truth. If you would like to interview the members of the Club as to how they came to their decision, then I would be glad to bring you into one of our meetings, or provide you with a list of the over one hundred or members who made their decision to endorse. Remember, Tom was there seeking the same endorsement.
Make no mistake, words matter. Endorsements matter. They matter here, because Tom is claiming in his campaign literature that he has received the very endorsement I won. If you are questioning value here, why is Mr. Bullock claiming to be 'Endorsed by Democrats', when in truth I am the endorsed Democrat in this race.
By the way, I notice you have not questioned the 'value' of any other endorsement of any other candidate in Lakewood.
Dan Shields
P.S. FYI - Last night I was given the endorsement of the Cuyahoga County Democratic Party Executive Committee. That means that I am the ENDORSED DEMOCRAT in this race. Once again, I am very proud to have received this, it has tremendous value to me and Lakewood voters.
You state that you are working on the campaign of two Lakewood candidates? One of them wouldn't happen to be Tom Bullock, would it?
I have the right to respond to you. You claim to be open minded, but you attacked me, my candidacy and the Lakewood Democratic Club without knowing me or having participated in Club activities. And let's not play games - you are questioning the value of this endorsement. This is a city race, and these are the city Democrats who know and work with the both of us. They endorsed me.
If you want to put me on the defensive then you will hear from me in response.
You claim that you are being "attacked" as well by Sharon Kinsella, but she has told the truth. If you would like to interview the members of the Club as to how they came to their decision, then I would be glad to bring you into one of our meetings, or provide you with a list of the over one hundred or members who made their decision to endorse. Remember, Tom was there seeking the same endorsement.
Make no mistake, words matter. Endorsements matter. They matter here, because Tom is claiming in his campaign literature that he has received the very endorsement I won. If you are questioning value here, why is Mr. Bullock claiming to be 'Endorsed by Democrats', when in truth I am the endorsed Democrat in this race.
By the way, I notice you have not questioned the 'value' of any other endorsement of any other candidate in Lakewood.
Dan Shields
P.S. FYI - Last night I was given the endorsement of the Cuyahoga County Democratic Party Executive Committee. That means that I am the ENDORSED DEMOCRAT in this race. Once again, I am very proud to have received this, it has tremendous value to me and Lakewood voters.
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Bryan Schwegler
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Actually no, I'm not on his campaign. Why would I be when I'm not in Ward 2? But thanks for the accusation. For the record I have participated in the Demro and Summers campaigns.Dan Shields wrote:Mr. Schwegler -
You state that you are working on the campaign of two Lakewood candidates? One of them wouldn't happen to be Tom Bullock, would it?
Dan,I have the right to respond to you. You claim to be open minded, but you attacked me, my candidacy and the Lakewood Democratic Club without knowing me or having participated in Club activities. And let's not play games - you are questioning the value of this endorsement. This is a city race, and these are the city Democrats who know and work with the both of us. They endorsed me.
I'm sorry...but I'm taken aback by your beligerence. I never attacked you or your candidacy. Please quote exactly where I did so. I simply questioned the endorsement since up until you, no one could tell me what it meant anyway. And for the record, it's not just their endorsement of you, it's any candidate they endorsed. What does an endorsement mean if you don't know why it happened? I think I have a right to ask the question.
Constituents will ask you questions and question your motives...that's life in politics. If you respond this way before you're even elected, what would a constituent expect from you if they're not happy with your choices?
You certainly have a right to respond, I never claimed you didn't. What would have been a more rational response from you would be politely correcting my understanding. I make mistakes, I don't know everything nor can I say with 100% certainty that the information that is given to me is correct all the time. I'm open to changing my mind. Your explanation of the endorsement helped me see the value of it. I'm just disappointed in the tone you've chosen to take in responding.
Dan, you are putting yourself on the defensive. You are reading into my comments more than is there. You're twisting my words and making assumptions based on things that were never said or implied.If you want to put me on the defensive then you will hear from me in response.
Where did I ever say she "attacked" me...please show me the quote. All I said is that she answered my questions (which I really appreciated) and I formed an opinion based partly on those answers. You feel that it was misinformation that I made my assumption on and you are correct.You claim that you are being "attacked" as well by Sharon Kinsella, but she has told the truth.
No need. If you re-read my last response to you, you'll see I thanked you for your explanation as no one else had given me one yet. That is sufficient and I appreciate the time you took to explain it.If you would like to interview the members of the Club as to how they came to their decision, then I would be glad to bring you into one of our meetings, or provide you with a list of the over one hundred or members who made their decision to endorse. Remember, Tom was there seeking the same endorsement.
I agree.Make no mistake, words matter.
You're assuming that this is the only place I participate and that all of my conversations take place here on the Deck. I talk to people in person, I talk to people on other forums, I talk to people via personal message. So please don't claim to know everything I've said or done.By the way, I notice you have not questioned the 'value' of any other endorsement of any other candidate in Lakewood.
For the record I have on other forums questions the endorsements of other candidates. On this very forum I have questioned the numerous union endorsements of Mayor George (you should be able to find that in a search). I have stated multiple times that IMHO, all endorsements are pointless to me...they don't help me decide. I view each candidate individually based on their platform and goals.
Congratulations. At the onset I had fairly positive views of both you and Tom based on the little I knew. I just wish you would have given me the same benefit of the doubt before responding to me so harshly.P.S. FYI - Last night I was given the endorsement of the Cuyahoga County Democratic Party Executive Committee. That means that I am the ENDORSED DEMOCRAT in this race. Once again, I am very proud to have received this, it has tremendous value to me and Lakewood voters.