Comparing the 3 Candidates Crime/Safety Information

[Jim O'Bryan]

I found it interesting that in 2002 both property and violent crimes dropped off dramatically compared to 2001 or the 3 year prior average. Since that time we seem to be steadily rising in property crime and have been somewhat spikey in violent crimes. Was there a change that happened in 2002 that caused such a drop (particularly in larceny)?

Shawn

I know one thing that might or might not figure into it, was an offloading of criminal cases from county to the city.

Not sure how this effected numbers but know it did happen.


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[Kevin Galvin]

Jim,

You said "I know one thing that might or might not figure into it, was an offloading of criminal cases from county to the city.

Not sure how this effected numbers but know it did happen."

What do you mean by offloading of cases? I'm not familiar with the phrase.

Thanks

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

You said "I know one thing that might or might not figure into it, was an offloading of criminal cases from county to the city.

Not sure how this effected numbers but know it did happen."

What do you mean by offloading of cases? I'm not familiar with the phrase.

Thanks

Kevin

And I'm not sure, but I remember talking with Judge Carroll about crime stats (I get the yearly reports from the court). He mentioned that many cases that were handled by the county are now handled by the city.

Not sure of the impact on numbers.

It might account for the climb Shawn is indicating?

I know going through arrests, which the police would use, it appears nearly static.

This is what I was thinking of when I say, all three would be interesting. Calls, arrests, and court.

But this is your field not mine.


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[Shawn Juris]

Interesting suggestion. In order for it to hold up though I would suspect that it would have meant that for 2002 and 2003 Cuyahoga County somehow shouldered the burden for Lakewood then started giving them back in 2004. If there was such an anomoly, why was it not adjusted for on the FBI reports. From what I picked up on there are a number of reasons that incidents can be cleared from that report to adjust for false arrests and juvenille convictions. The odd thing about this suggestion is that it would mean that if we're using statistics as an indicator of safety then Lakewood wasn't as safe in the years that Cuyahoga "offloaded cases".

Are the numbers for 2006 and/or the projections for 2007 available? These additional statistics may put an end to this, leaving 2004-2005 as nothing more than a temporary increase from which we leveled back off again. The statistics that I have do not correspond with the FBI reports so it would be wrong to compare the two. While they are similar the 2005 numbers are higher, leading me to believe that the final FBI tables have been adjusted somehow. Based on the trend though across 2005/2006/projected 2007, I expect that the rise may be supported.

Once again, this seems pretty easy. Agree on a standard then look at the raw data to see what the increases and decreases are.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Interesting suggestion. In order for it to hold up though I would suspect that it would have meant that for 2002 and 2003 Cuyahoga County somehow shouldered the burden for Lakewood then started giving them back in 2004. If there was such an anomoly, why was it not adjusted for on the FBI reports. From what I picked up on there are a number of reasons that incidents can be cleared from that report to adjust for false arrests and juvenille convictions. The odd thing about this suggestion is that it would mean that if we're using statistics as an indicator of safety then Lakewood wasn't as safe in the years that Cuyahoga "offloaded cases".

Are the numbers for 2006 and/or the projections for 2007 available? These additional statistics may put an end to this, leaving 2004-2005 as nothing more than a temporary increase from which we leveled back off again. The statistics that I have do not correspond with the FBI reports so it would be wrong to compare the two. While they are similar the 2005 numbers are higher, leading me to believe that the final FBI tables have been adjusted somehow. Based on the trend though across 2005/2006/projected 2007, I expect that the rise may be supported.

Once again, this seems pretty easy. Agree on a standard then look at the raw data to see what the increases and decreases are.

[Kevin Galvin]

[


Kevin

And I'm not sure, but I remember talking with Judge Carroll about crime stats (I get the yearly reports from the court). He mentioned that many cases that were handled by the county are now handled by the city.

Not sure of the impact on numbers.

It might account for the climb Shawn is indicating?

I know going through arrests, which the police would use, it appears nearly static.

This is what I was thinking of when I say, all three would be interesting. Calls, arrests, and court.

But this is your field not mine.


.

Jim,

Ok, actually that helps. If, and I stress IF, I understand correctly. I don't want to be putting words in Judge Carroll's mouth but I think he may be talking about lower level felonies. If an adult is arrested for a 4th degree felony by Lakewood Police, the procedure is to bind them over to the Common Pleas Court. (aka "county"). The case is still handled by LPD but the prosecution leaves Lakewood and is transferred to Bill Mason's office.

With the number and severity of cases going through Cuyahoga County I'm sure that you can see where the knucklehead that Lakewood caught breaking into businesses falls to the bottom of the pile for the prosecutor who has murderers, rapists and misc. shooters and robbers on his plate. A first or second time adult offender will almost always get a plea agreement from county that will include no jail time and limited (if any) supervised probation.

Now if Lakewood chooses to charge this person with Criminal trespass and petty theft, Judge Carroll would maintain jurisdiction and can sentence him for up to six months for a 1st degree misdemeanor. Obviously this would impact the workload of our law department as well as our court, but that would be an entirely different thread.

I wracked my brain to try and remember if anything occurred in 2002 that might explain the statistical anomaly Shawn found and nothing came to mind. I will mention that I hesitate to trust my memory lately so take it for what it's worth.
Thanks.

DISCLAIMER: I in no way am claiming this is the situation. My example is just to explain one way that a county case could be heard in Lakewood.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Kevin

I will check with Judge Carroll, he hates other people putting words in his mouth!

I will ask on Monday.

I remember he mentioning something like that with one of the yearly books.


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[Justine Cooper]

What about the fact that Cleveland reduced so many police it allows more criminals to roam free here in Lakewood, as we can see by many arrests here come from residents of Cleveland?

What about the fact that the juvenile system is so overloaded they let out juvenile criminals every day, including one who raped at knife point?

The variables that affect crime in Lakewood often have nothing to do with Lakewood. So what can a mayor do in terms of these variables? Obviiously more police on the streets when criminals do come in from Cleveland. But does any mayor candidate have any plan to help with the Juvenile problem? How many crimes were committed by people under the age of 18? Is there a plan for diversion for these youths like many other cities have????????

[Shawn Juris]

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves into what the mayor is going to do about crime and what the possible causes of crime are, can we at least come to terms with if it has increased or decreased?
I find examples to be helpful in understanding a situation: If it's 70 degrees and clear outside, one may say it is cold or warm, pleasant or lousy. It's all a perception relative to their expectation. What you cannot dispute though is if this 70 degree day was warmer or colder than the day before. Sure you can average in as many days as you need to get higher or lower but if you expect to maintain credibility you better disclose what you're comparing.

[sharon kinsella]

One of the things I have heard is that the County Juvenile Detention Center is so overcrowded that when the police do bring kids there, they are sometimes turned away. Lakewood does not have a juvenile detention center and I'm sure that it would be very costly to develop one.

Also, County jail is also severely overcrowded and many people are granted early release because there is no place to hold them.

This is one of many thousands of reasons that a "zero tolerance"crime initiative, in addition to being way over the top, is totally unfathomable. Beside the policy being one of always punishing, where do people think they're going to put all the people they are zero tolerating?

Ridiculous.

[dl meckes]

Zero tolerance isn't a great idea for a number of issues, including noise complaints. If a graduation party is too noisy and a neighbor complains, shouldn't a family have a chance to be told of the complaint and tone things down before a citation is issued?

We've heard complaints about weddings, children's birthday parties, graduation parties, neighbors talking too loudly on porches, etc. and once they've been asked to quiet down, most do.

The ones that don't may deserve a citation, but sometimes what seems like a simple complaint isn't. Sometimes neighbor wars occur and people become hyper-sensitive about what their neighbors do.

There has to be some sort of reasonable way to handle complaints.

[Justine Cooper]

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves into what the mayor is going to do about crime and what the possible causes of crime are, can we at least come to terms with if it has increased or decreased?
I find examples to be helpful in understanding a situation: If it's 70 degrees and clear outside, one may say it is cold or warm, pleasant or lousy. It's all a perception relative to their expectation. What you cannot dispute though is if this 70 degree day was warmer or colder than the day before. Sure you can average in as many days as you need to get higher or lower but if you expect to maintain credibility you better disclose what you're comparing.

My questions were in response to Lynn's post, not your questions.

[Shawn Juris]

I found it interesting that in 2002 both property and violent crimes dropped off dramatically compared to 2001 or the 3 year prior average. Since that time we seem to be steadily rising in property crime and have been somewhat spikey in violent crimes. Was there a change that happened in 2002 that caused such a drop (particularly in larceny)?

Shawn

I know one thing that might or might not figure into it, was an offloading of criminal cases from county to the city.

Not sure how this effected numbers but know it did happen.


.

In relation to the crime reports through the FBI, I got confirmation that this "offloading" would have no effect. I suppose that there would be a possibility if the topic of the study was the burden on the court system but in terms of crime regardless of who (city, county) prosecutes the case, the incident is attributed back to the location that it occured in.

So are the statements that crime is steady, static or down just interpreting them to fit the needs or are some just in denial? Still waiting to see those most recent 2006 and 2007 projections to determine what to make of this. Until then, on the issue of safety I'm left to decide if I prefer Demro or Fitzgerald since I can't buy what Mayor George is selling on this topic. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the debates.

[Justine Cooper]

But haven't both these candidates been on council during the Mayor's term? What have they done to contribute to safety and keeping up the parks?

[Jeff Endress]

Well, at least the streets will be a little safer this coming weekend! LHS will celebrate its 2007 Homecoming this Saturday, 9/22. In years (and decades) past, the dance was from 8-11. Gave the kids time to go out for dinner, the usual stuff. FORTUNATELY, this year, because of the change in curfew, the dance has been changed to run from 7-10, thus making sure those dangerous students are are able to make it home before running afoul of the earlier curfew. I know I sure feel safer. I'm hoping that in the spring they make the prom an afternoon affair.



Jeff