Danielle,
I am offended by your assertion that all-day kindergarten is a form of subsidized day care. The masters educated teachers that you have insulted by your comments deserve an apology. Did you really mean to imply that they are glorified baby-sitters?! Shame on you!
You claim that you have been pressured to enroll your child in full-day kindergarten because all but a few of the children at Hayes will be attending full-day. Have you considered the possibility that the majority of parents at Hayes have chosen the full-day program for the educational and social oppoprtunity it offers? Your post implies that parents who choose full-day kindergarten are shirking their responsability to educate their children - again, offensive. Since you take such a dim and frankly paranoid view of the Lakewood school system, I wonder why you haven't chosen to home-school.
Every parent in Lakewood has a vested interested in the Lakewood school system. Constructive criticism is useful, insults are not.
Jennifer
Hayes Kindergarten
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Jennifer Desilets
- Posts: 22
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
First things first, Parents that chose not to have their child in full day kindergarten were told that they would not miss out on any of the education that they were promised. They will not be missing anything that the full day children will be doing. So, what do you call it? if the children are receiving the same education...and one is in school for 2 1/2 hours and the other is in for 6 hours...what is really going on for those 3 1/2 hours??? Having fun, playing games, reading books, "socializing" reviewing what was already taught? In my opinion these are the things that are being done in day care, or what should be done at home.
With that said...Full day kindergarten teachers in my opinion are just picking up the slack from,
a) non involved parents
and
b) what is done in day care...minus the "cost" of day care.
I call it like I see it...nothing against the school system...its great! I love Lakewood schools. But the numbers aren't where we were promised with all these new schools, and no-one should be "bullied" into full day kindergarten. The parent that chose not to do all day...shouldn't feel like their child is missing out on something because of what other parents are saying. I'm assuming Mona, (who feels like she is being bullied) is a good parent and does all these activities at home with her child. There is no reason for children to be in all day kindergarten if the curriculum is the same as half day.
It just makes it convenient for parents...less stress having to worry about before and after care...day care, so on and so on.
Oh and by the way,
Danielle doesn't have a child at Hayes, (If you were paying attention to what was posted), and I saw nowhere that she insulted a teacher in the slightest. If she were so insulting then why would numerous teachers have her in their classroom volunteering in some way shape or form??!!
With that said...Full day kindergarten teachers in my opinion are just picking up the slack from,
a) non involved parents
and
b) what is done in day care...minus the "cost" of day care.
I call it like I see it...nothing against the school system...its great! I love Lakewood schools. But the numbers aren't where we were promised with all these new schools, and no-one should be "bullied" into full day kindergarten. The parent that chose not to do all day...shouldn't feel like their child is missing out on something because of what other parents are saying. I'm assuming Mona, (who feels like she is being bullied) is a good parent and does all these activities at home with her child. There is no reason for children to be in all day kindergarten if the curriculum is the same as half day.
It just makes it convenient for parents...less stress having to worry about before and after care...day care, so on and so on.
Oh and by the way,
Danielle doesn't have a child at Hayes, (If you were paying attention to what was posted), and I saw nowhere that she insulted a teacher in the slightest. If she were so insulting then why would numerous teachers have her in their classroom volunteering in some way shape or form??!!
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Jennifer Desilets
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:31 pm
Suzie,
What I'm reading in your post boils down to this: Parents who choose full-day kindergarten are uninvolved with their children and too cheap to pay for day care. Is that what you mean?
It may interest you to know that the National Institute of Early Education Research (Rutger University) published a review and analysis of numerous studies comparing half-day vs. full day kindergarten. Their conclusions were that among other benefits, children who attended full-day kindergarten achieved significantly higher test scores on math and reading in the 1st grade. They recommend that educational standards be revised in favor of all-day kindergarten. This 22 page document can be found on their website www.nieer.org.
I don't know, but I imagine that the teachers involved were part of the curriculum development for the full-day program. I would be surprised if any of them would agree that they are doing the work of a day care provider (or negligent parent) in the additional hours. They are professionals, and I doubt that they would participate in a curriculum that involved baby-sitting. To suggest otherwise is insulting!
What I'm reading in your post boils down to this: Parents who choose full-day kindergarten are uninvolved with their children and too cheap to pay for day care. Is that what you mean?
It may interest you to know that the National Institute of Early Education Research (Rutger University) published a review and analysis of numerous studies comparing half-day vs. full day kindergarten. Their conclusions were that among other benefits, children who attended full-day kindergarten achieved significantly higher test scores on math and reading in the 1st grade. They recommend that educational standards be revised in favor of all-day kindergarten. This 22 page document can be found on their website www.nieer.org.
I don't know, but I imagine that the teachers involved were part of the curriculum development for the full-day program. I would be surprised if any of them would agree that they are doing the work of a day care provider (or negligent parent) in the additional hours. They are professionals, and I doubt that they would participate in a curriculum that involved baby-sitting. To suggest otherwise is insulting!
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
Jennifer,
Studies are fine and dandy...But what we are being told is....The half day program is NO different then the full day program...the children are getting the SAME education. I will stand my ground and say...
Yes it is a convenience thing. If there is no difference in the curriculum then they "should" receive the same test scores.
There has been comments from teachers made ...stating they feel they are a glorified babysitter. Why is that??? Maybe because the parents or parent isn't doing what they should be at home. Or maybe the children aren't getting the attention they so rightfully deserve.
I will live my life as a guilt free parent because my children went to half day kindergarten and I took the time to read with them and make sure that they did there homework and that they understood what they were taught that day. I took the time to listen to their stories of how the day went. I took on the responsibility of having children and I am taking the responsibility of raising them as well!!!
Oh and just an FYI my daughter went to half day kindergarten and is now in the discovery (gifted/talented) program at school...
No test score is going to prove how I should or shouldn't raise my children.
Studies are fine and dandy...But what we are being told is....The half day program is NO different then the full day program...the children are getting the SAME education. I will stand my ground and say...
Yes it is a convenience thing. If there is no difference in the curriculum then they "should" receive the same test scores.
There has been comments from teachers made ...stating they feel they are a glorified babysitter. Why is that??? Maybe because the parents or parent isn't doing what they should be at home. Or maybe the children aren't getting the attention they so rightfully deserve.
I will live my life as a guilt free parent because my children went to half day kindergarten and I took the time to read with them and make sure that they did there homework and that they understood what they were taught that day. I took the time to listen to their stories of how the day went. I took on the responsibility of having children and I am taking the responsibility of raising them as well!!!
Oh and just an FYI my daughter went to half day kindergarten and is now in the discovery (gifted/talented) program at school...
No test score is going to prove how I should or shouldn't raise my children.
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Jennifer Desilets
- Posts: 22
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Justine Cooper
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: Lakewood
Suzie,
I feel like I know you through this deck and respect you as a person so I hope my message comes out from that respect as if often reads differently in writing. I don't think there is anything wrong with half day OR full day kindergarten and I think it is a good pilot program for Lakewood to try. I have two kids that went to half day and they are doing very well. However I do feel that my youngest might benefit from this program and feel blessed for it, not because I want to shirk any duties, but because he does better under structure, he is on the younger and more immature side, and I am eager to try this program. I never even considered comparing it with daycare, as he has never been in. I am using the time to finish my own teacher's license and feel that I can be a better parent having something for myself. I do not feel selfish saying that. I have been a parent for 17 years and if I have learned anything, it is that we all have strengths and weaknesses, that we know what is best for our child, that judging anyone as a parent will surely come back to bite us, that it is not uncommon to have one gifted child and one with a disability because we can't control the brain of our child and we can't take credit for one and not the other.
I feel that I devote myself so much to my children that I often let other things go. Trying to find the balance in life is always a challenge,and often mothers neglect something in their own life to sacrifice, whether working moms or stay at home moms. I have been both and both are incredibly difficult!! I never feel like I do enough at the end of the day, but I do my best. The best thing we can do for our children is to accept ourselves and accept others. The best thing we can do as women is embrace other women and their choices as we know in our heart, parenting is never black and white, cut and dry. It differs with every child and the job is never done. Supporting each other as mothers teaches kids far more than anything else.
I feel like I know you through this deck and respect you as a person so I hope my message comes out from that respect as if often reads differently in writing. I don't think there is anything wrong with half day OR full day kindergarten and I think it is a good pilot program for Lakewood to try. I have two kids that went to half day and they are doing very well. However I do feel that my youngest might benefit from this program and feel blessed for it, not because I want to shirk any duties, but because he does better under structure, he is on the younger and more immature side, and I am eager to try this program. I never even considered comparing it with daycare, as he has never been in. I am using the time to finish my own teacher's license and feel that I can be a better parent having something for myself. I do not feel selfish saying that. I have been a parent for 17 years and if I have learned anything, it is that we all have strengths and weaknesses, that we know what is best for our child, that judging anyone as a parent will surely come back to bite us, that it is not uncommon to have one gifted child and one with a disability because we can't control the brain of our child and we can't take credit for one and not the other.
I feel that I devote myself so much to my children that I often let other things go. Trying to find the balance in life is always a challenge,and often mothers neglect something in their own life to sacrifice, whether working moms or stay at home moms. I have been both and both are incredibly difficult!! I never feel like I do enough at the end of the day, but I do my best. The best thing we can do for our children is to accept ourselves and accept others. The best thing we can do as women is embrace other women and their choices as we know in our heart, parenting is never black and white, cut and dry. It differs with every child and the job is never done. Supporting each other as mothers teaches kids far more than anything else.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Kate McCarthy
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:25 pm
- Location: Lakewood
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Justine Cooper
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: Lakewood
Thank you Kate! We are all soul sisters in this Universe! None separate!
Suzie,
I did want to ask if you meant the Kindergarten teachers feel they are babysitting or some frustrated in general that are not connected with the Kindergarten? Overall, we have seen a decline in parenting with the rise in drug/alcohol/mental instability in the country, but I believe none of that has to do with stay at home moms or working moms, just many other issues!! It takes a village and the more we can all support each other, the better off we will all be.
Suzie,
I did want to ask if you meant the Kindergarten teachers feel they are babysitting or some frustrated in general that are not connected with the Kindergarten? Overall, we have seen a decline in parenting with the rise in drug/alcohol/mental instability in the country, but I believe none of that has to do with stay at home moms or working moms, just many other issues!! It takes a village and the more we can all support each other, the better off we will all be.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
Justine,
I do agree with what you said. I am very happy that you feel that your son would benefit from the full day program, But for someone to say its better then half day...why isn't yours in full day...and basically having your motherhood picked on because your child isn't in full day...that's another story.
At Hayes...there is two kindergarten classes. Both kindergarten classes are there all day. Only the select few that are in half day leave in the middle of the day. The same children that they were in class with in the morning then stay and continue their day. So technically, ALL the required curriculum is to be taught in the morning. If what we are being told is true...the teacher should not be teaching any "core subject" in the afternoon. So she or he will be teaching the...socializing, playing games, extra reading, etc. I do these things at home. I as my children's mother teach them these things. (Part of what I feel is my job as a parent) I don't feel my child needs to be in school for that. In my opinion they also do these things in a day care as well.
My children are "kids" just that. they like to play have fun and BE A KID. They grow up way to fast as it is...I will take every moment I can with them. My now first grader is very young. She just turned 6 in August...most children are turning six in the kindergarten year. There is no way she could of mentally or physically handled being in class ALL day. As it is right now she comes home exhausted.
What's right for one is not right for another. As I said before no amount of test is going to prove how I should or shouldn't raise my children. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Yes supporting other mothers would be a good idea...but I promise you...If you went to any given school you are not going to find that. What you will find is the mothers that are there volunteering countless hours, arranging class parties, helping the teachers, and reading to children because their parents don't do it at home.
Jennifer,
I don't need a mother of a year award for raising my children the way I feel they should be.
I do agree with what you said. I am very happy that you feel that your son would benefit from the full day program, But for someone to say its better then half day...why isn't yours in full day...and basically having your motherhood picked on because your child isn't in full day...that's another story.
At Hayes...there is two kindergarten classes. Both kindergarten classes are there all day. Only the select few that are in half day leave in the middle of the day. The same children that they were in class with in the morning then stay and continue their day. So technically, ALL the required curriculum is to be taught in the morning. If what we are being told is true...the teacher should not be teaching any "core subject" in the afternoon. So she or he will be teaching the...socializing, playing games, extra reading, etc. I do these things at home. I as my children's mother teach them these things. (Part of what I feel is my job as a parent) I don't feel my child needs to be in school for that. In my opinion they also do these things in a day care as well.
My children are "kids" just that. they like to play have fun and BE A KID. They grow up way to fast as it is...I will take every moment I can with them. My now first grader is very young. She just turned 6 in August...most children are turning six in the kindergarten year. There is no way she could of mentally or physically handled being in class ALL day. As it is right now she comes home exhausted.
What's right for one is not right for another. As I said before no amount of test is going to prove how I should or shouldn't raise my children. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Yes supporting other mothers would be a good idea...but I promise you...If you went to any given school you are not going to find that. What you will find is the mothers that are there volunteering countless hours, arranging class parties, helping the teachers, and reading to children because their parents don't do it at home.
Jennifer,
I don't need a mother of a year award for raising my children the way I feel they should be.
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
Justine,
I wouldn't say that the teachers aren't connecting with Kindergarten...It's teachers in general...several grade levels...not connecting with parents. Or I should say Parents not connecting with the teachers. The parents that send their children to school expecting the teacher to teach them everything they need to know. Parents that don't check their child's backpacks or make sure they do their homework, or review. There are several parents that don't even send kids to school with their supplies. And I'm not talking about the ones who financially can't....I'm talking about the ones whose kids are wearing the name brand clothes and hundred dollar shoes. The ones that can't be bothered. I pray for those kids every day that someone will look out for them, help them out, and show an ounce of compassion to them. Shame on those parents that don't take the time to raise their children.
I wouldn't say that the teachers aren't connecting with Kindergarten...It's teachers in general...several grade levels...not connecting with parents. Or I should say Parents not connecting with the teachers. The parents that send their children to school expecting the teacher to teach them everything they need to know. Parents that don't check their child's backpacks or make sure they do their homework, or review. There are several parents that don't even send kids to school with their supplies. And I'm not talking about the ones who financially can't....I'm talking about the ones whose kids are wearing the name brand clothes and hundred dollar shoes. The ones that can't be bothered. I pray for those kids every day that someone will look out for them, help them out, and show an ounce of compassion to them. Shame on those parents that don't take the time to raise their children.
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Suzie -
Okay, I've stayed out of this, but, as a woman who was a single working mom of three, I resent the fact that you are inferring that the women who do not work outside the home are better moms than who do.
If single mom's don't put the bread on the table, who's going?
Yes I checked my kids backpacks, yes I checked their homework (until they were old enough to be responsible for it on their own).
No, I didn't read to them every day, when I got home I cooked dinner, cleaned house and washed clothes.
Does that make me not as good a mother as you? No.
And I don't like your inference otherwise.
Shame on you.
Just call them like I see them Suzie.
Okay, I've stayed out of this, but, as a woman who was a single working mom of three, I resent the fact that you are inferring that the women who do not work outside the home are better moms than who do.
If single mom's don't put the bread on the table, who's going?
Yes I checked my kids backpacks, yes I checked their homework (until they were old enough to be responsible for it on their own).
No, I didn't read to them every day, when I got home I cooked dinner, cleaned house and washed clothes.
Does that make me not as good a mother as you? No.
And I don't like your inference otherwise.
Shame on you.
Just call them like I see them Suzie.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
Shame on me!!!
NO shame on the parents that aren't involved in their child's education.
Not once did I state I was a stay at home mom and I'm better then working moms, Did I??? I didn't see it.
Good for you...you check your kids back packs and homework. Pat on the back for you. But being at the school...every day...I see the many kids whose parents that DON'T!!
Do I need to point out studies that state that reading with your child is a wonderful thing??? No I don't because that's not me.
But this thread wasn't about that!!
Full day kindergarten- Half day kindergarten.
Whats the difference?
NO shame on the parents that aren't involved in their child's education.
Not once did I state I was a stay at home mom and I'm better then working moms, Did I??? I didn't see it.
Good for you...you check your kids back packs and homework. Pat on the back for you. But being at the school...every day...I see the many kids whose parents that DON'T!!
Do I need to point out studies that state that reading with your child is a wonderful thing??? No I don't because that's not me.
But this thread wasn't about that!!
Full day kindergarten- Half day kindergarten.
Whats the difference?
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sharon kinsella
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- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
"If you went to any given school you are not going to find that. -What you will find is the mothers that are there volunteering countless hours, arranging class parties, helping the teachers, and reading to children because their parents don't do it at home."
You're words - mothers who are volunteering, arranging the parties and reading to the children, not their children, but othe children, as if mom's that don't do that aren't as good. I also noticed that you aren't saying it about the dads.
By the way - my kids are grown - oldest boy - manages a store and owns his own home, daughter NHS, Cum Laude and Accelerated Masters graduate, youngest son BS Info. Technology - Computer Interfacing and Communications facilitation for a multi-national.
So I do know what I'm talking about, the good moms aren't all the same and I was saying that judging other's based on your standards is wrong and shame on you.
And if you're going to criticize for parental participation, or lack thereof, why are the dad's left out of your finger pointing?
Shame on you - I just call them as I see them.
You're words - mothers who are volunteering, arranging the parties and reading to the children, not their children, but othe children, as if mom's that don't do that aren't as good. I also noticed that you aren't saying it about the dads.
By the way - my kids are grown - oldest boy - manages a store and owns his own home, daughter NHS, Cum Laude and Accelerated Masters graduate, youngest son BS Info. Technology - Computer Interfacing and Communications facilitation for a multi-national.
So I do know what I'm talking about, the good moms aren't all the same and I was saying that judging other's based on your standards is wrong and shame on you.
And if you're going to criticize for parental participation, or lack thereof, why are the dad's left out of your finger pointing?
Shame on you - I just call them as I see them.
"When I dare to be powerful -- to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid." - Audre Lorde
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Suzie Dean
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:55 pm
Sharon,
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you...this is getting out of hand! Yes I did say mothers reading to children whose parents don't. Why did I say it....Hmmm lets see I call it as I see it.
Pat on the back for you...your kids are grown and have a good life.
Mine are young...and I enjoy every moment with them. I didn't say you were a bad parent. I didn't say Dad's are bad parents.
I said shame on those that aren't involved and shame on you for the...I'm assuming guilt you have for not being a stay at home mom. Otherwise I don't think you would be so.....willing to judge me.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you...this is getting out of hand! Yes I did say mothers reading to children whose parents don't. Why did I say it....Hmmm lets see I call it as I see it.
Pat on the back for you...your kids are grown and have a good life.
Mine are young...and I enjoy every moment with them. I didn't say you were a bad parent. I didn't say Dad's are bad parents.
I said shame on those that aren't involved and shame on you for the...I'm assuming guilt you have for not being a stay at home mom. Otherwise I don't think you would be so.....willing to judge me.
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Richard Cole
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:42 pm
