Kauffman Park - Plans to Redevelop?

[Shawn Juris]

Have to agree with you John on the need for fields. And Gary you said it well regarding the need to consider the ripple effect.
I have been astonished and confused at some of those that support the redevelopment at the expense of losing Foxx Field. The justification given most often is the field is not used or worse, used by out of towners. Allow me a moment to respond to that view. Those who play at least Rec Dept ball at diamonds in Lakewood pay a higher fee than residents and in addition should be seen as potential customers for not only the bars but for other local businesses. Why on earth would this view want to be entertained? What message would it send? not from here... don't come here. Sure it's important to pay attention to our tax payers needs and city's financial well being but what I've heard sounds spiteful. Now if the decision is really based on the desire of a business to expand then the justification of out of towners using a field is really quite irrelevant and just detracts from the discussion.
After looking again at that lot last night, I see no reason why these two entities can not co-exist. Why would the structure have to be up against the tracks? Why could it not be moved back if necessary to the northern most point of the parking lot, allowing for some landscaping to be visable from the street view and parking between. As mentioned earlier if additional parking is really needed pave over the tennis courts. I've yet to hear a voice that lobbies for their need to stay intact or any indication that these courts generate a dime. Furthermore, the development dollars saved by eliminating the step of moving a park from one position to another can be spent on doing something with little links. Frankly, I don't see the need for it and while I hear that there are many outraged over it's closing I don't know if it could be a breakeven. As always, maybe I'm wrong these are just my perceptions based on my experience.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Shawn

One problem right out of the box is that St. Ed.s uses it for their home field and pays nothing for the use.

In the big picture, do we use the four fields in the Canyon, Madison, Lakewood, maybe even Webb Road.

Wouldn't it make sense to use the area to generate more income for the city? A Cain Park theater?

Just curious.


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[Shawn Juris]

There are 3 fields in Lakewood that are used in the context that I and others seem to be talking about; Usher, Foxx and LHS north. In previous discussion about this St Ed's was not identified as a user that they had issue with, it was the bar leagues that play through the rec dept. As noted above LHS may be phased out which would leave just two. The field in the valley are used but do not have fences and as we're talking about revenue for the city, don't bring dollars to the business districts of Lakewood. As for St Ed's, is there reasonable explanation behind their use of the field? Is it a goodwill gesture or a matter of scheduling that would apply to any local resident or organization that requested it availability?
As for the theater idea, doesn't that boil down to one preference vs another? Maybe the research has already been done? How much does the civic generate in sales throughout the year? What about the bandstand at Lakewood park? If the discussion is going to be based on broad views of you've got enough so we're going to take some away then an argument could be made for already having an outdoor stage in Lakewood. Why should it be a win/lose mentality in any case? The more rational approach would be to inquire into a mixed used facility at Foxx, IF the numbers really supported it. Regardless throwing a theater into the discussion is just to throw a wrench in the works if it's not going to integrate into either what is already there or what is being proposed. I would be curious about the levels of support that exist for the Shakespearean theater concept before I would support the city's elimination of an existing diamond that already is being used by many.

[Brian Pedaci]

Kaufmann Park would be a horrible location for an outdoor stage due to stray noise from Detroit Ave and the occasional train, plus I'm not sure the residents near there would care for regular concerts in their backyard. As mentioned, there's already an outdoor stage in Lakewood that's underutilized and not a source of revenue.

[J Hrlec]

Well if they really wanted to redevelop that area I would dream of bulldozing it, filling it somewhat to level the land and opening a smaller version of the new Westgate shopping area or Avon Commons type setup. This would keep the area retail shop and restaurant related yet provide a more separated store design and mutiple parking areas.

Other than that, I would suggest leveling it all and buying the Demon Drop from Cedar Point to setup in that area.

[dl meckes]

Selfishly, I would like to look out the library windows and see a beautiful green space.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Shawn

To clean up what I was speaking of.

It would seem if St. Ed's paid for the use of the field it would seem better to leave it as a baseball field.

Right now they pay nothing. This came about as a deal from Mayor Cain to St. Eds. They leveled their field for a parking lot. As it would seem they have benefited from the lot, maybe they could help us break even at the baseball field.


FWIW


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[Eric Conroy]

First the city eliminates all basketball courts. Now there may be talk of razing (developing) Kauffman? What next?

We're already down one field with Harding Field gone. (I REALLY hope it is rebuilt, complete with repaired bleachers and entry off of Hilliard-A Humphrey Popcorn store would be too much to ask) To talk of reducing green space distributed around the city is to talk of eliminating another aspect of what makes Lakewood attractive: the ability to walk anywhere and do something.

Countless times I've driven through the Drug Mart parking lot to see a pick up game going on, just as I've seen them at Edwards, Cove, St. Charles, LHS North, Stone House and other spaces around. Kids from the neighborhood playing on a patch of green barely the size of three yards is a blessing. This has GOT to be better than driving your kid to the one or two "Sanctioned" parks in a hope to find an empty field. To eliminate any of these spaces would be tragic.

The Rec Department has taken a lot of heat over the past few years for letting their Youth Baseball program slip, sending kids to Four Corners, Puritas and West Denison. This past summer the department took a first step by sanctioning the league in accordance with the Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth League. Hopefully, this program will become stronger and lure the "Lost Boys & Girls" back home. When this happens, we will need proper fields.

Since a Clague Park-type complex is not feasable why not improve Usher Harding and Kauffman (Foxx) to their past splendor? Keep Edwards, Cove, Stone House and Lakewood Park North in playable shape for younger teams. Entice out of town teams to a tournament in Lakewood where games can be played on quality fields and enjoy the restaurants and entertainment in town? And when they're not being used by Adult Softball, High Schools or Rec teams? Let the kids have fun.

[Stephen Eisel]

I think that this area is saturated with enought shopping malls / Crocker Park / the new Westgate/ Beachcliff etc and drug stores...

[Jeff Endress]

We're already down one field with Harding Field gone. (I REALLY hope it is rebuilt, complete with repaired bleachers and entry off of Hilliard-A Humphrey Popcorn store would be too much to ask)

Harding field is going to berebuilt, once the demo on the old Harding is complete. It will be a softball field, available for recreational uses. It will be the home field of the Rangers Women's Varsity softball team.

THe popcorn store was Popee's.....I doubt that we will ever see that icon of Lakewood's past return

Jeff

[Kevin Galvin]

Shawn

Right now they pay nothing. This came about as a deal from Mayor Cain to St. Eds. They leveled their field for a parking lot. As it would seem they have benefited from the lot, maybe they could help us break even at the baseball field.


FWIW


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Jim,

Just curious, what field did St. Ed's level for a parking lot?

[Shawn Juris]

Glad to hear that there are some that see the benefit of keeping a diamond at Kaufman Park. For what it's worth, I think that there may be a need to voice this sentiment clearly to the planning dept before they sign off on plopping a building on top of it. The points about rec programming to include Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth leagues and the suggestion of tournament play are fantastic. In my experience the new director is very open to suggestions as is the entire department. Our rec dept really does do a nice job and I hope that this does not become a matter of one hand cuffing the other inside the beauracracy of city government.

Let's see... dl, I don't think it's selfish to have green space in your view from the library. If they are working on redeveloping this space, it seems to be the tone of the times to include some green. I think of the area in front of the hospital or the area in front of Pacer's, or the lawn in front of McGorray's ( I swear that lawn is unnaturally green, we expect it has something to do with "fertilizer" that they have available ) contributes something significant to the aesthetic of Detroit Ave. I find it odd how the 2 largest projects; the YMCA and the library have included so little visible landscaping. At any rate, yes the project could and should include visible landscaping. I don't think that requires eliminating Foxx field though.

Jim, thanks for the cleaning up of the St. Eds issue but it's still rather cloudy to me (must be slow on the uptake). So Mayor Cain made an agreement with St Eds and the suggestion is to reneg this agreement and bill them for use of a field? The budget for the rec / parks dept is one that I have not had the pleasure of reviewing but I would be curious how much we would need to increase income or decrease expenses to "breakeven". I guess beyond that my question is with the fields owned by the city and the programs operated by the Board of Ed (rec dept) is there something in the disconnect between these two that should be addressed to increase profitablity. Either way, it would be bad form to not honor an agreement with an entity that provides the city with a positive image nationally. I would have thought that St Ed's would have been on the top of the list that gives more than it takes away. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point.

[Paul Schrimpf]

There are a lot of terrific ideas here, but nothing at all cohesive. Imagine if the school system had looked at every school in isolation ... nothing would ever have gotten done. How can you look at shuttering Kaufmann without looking at the ripples such a move creates?

Hate to say it, but drastic changes, such as hacking off a park should be considered through many prisms -- all economic and social impacts, as well as total green space. Am I wrong in suspecting that no such master plan, or at least a list of considerations, guides the minds of our leadership?

[dl meckes]

Paul-

There is a master plan, but plans change. There is a study being done. We may hear the results in about a month.

There is also a process that has to take place before anything moves forward, including public hearings.

[Jay Foran]

The only other city in America that has a community access ballfield in the heart of it's downtown is Cooperstown, NY. For some silly reason about baseball being invented there, they choose to keep it.

For Lakewood to maintain this facility in the heart of it's retail and commercial district makes no sense.

What I would like to see is in this order:

1) An assessment (involving the community) of our park system. Our current system was established in the late teens and early 20's of the last century. How have usage patterns changed (e.g. tennis courts exist in almost every park...are they still required) and what are the requirements?

I would liken this assessment to the schools facility assessment done a few years back. As you know, we are in the midst of moving from 14 buildings to 10 and yet the sense is that we are better prepared to serve our community with fewer, better aligned facilities. I would make the maintenance of parks (a common dialogue on the Deck) as an integral part of this community discussion.

It may in the end make more sense to redevelop Kauffman and use some of the city benefiting funds (from the Kauffman sell-off) to buy and clear a number of double houses (we are saturated) to build a new ballfield.

I would use this assessment as an input into the 2nd major assessment.

2) The development of a downtown master plan that would take a parallel look at 4 major parcels (see below) and create a cohesive and congruent plan for redevelopment; what buildings to keep, which ones to leverage, and how to create interdependencies? Some green grass across from the library makes sense. Likewise, thinking how to bring the Beck into the center of the community may also make sense.

1. The Lakewood Library
2. The Kauffman Field block (bounded by the tracks, the Masonic Temple and former Scientist Church)
3. The area on the south side of Detroit between Belle and Warren (2 blocks) consisting of Einsteins, the INA Bldg. and Old Baileys.
4. The area bounded by Marc's Plaza, Grant School, the BOE and Caribou/Burger King/Huntington Bank.

To create a master plan that is not born in a back room, all parties need to be at the table; the City, the community, the Schools, the Hospital, the Beck, the Coral Co. (owner of Marc's Plaza, etc.). It can be done!