Mayor George's LO Campaign Ad

[Scott Kermode]

Mayor George's campaign ad in the August 21 edition of the LO attributes growth in building permit revenues to the George administration's leadership. I have to question that. I know that permit fees associated with the Library project account for a significant portion of that revenue and I would guess that the various school projects contributed substantially as well. While the Library and the Schools certainly enjoy and value the Mayor's support, it seems a bit disingenuous to claim a leadership role in their respective building projects (or to even count public project building permit revenues in this context at all).

[c. dawson]

It's the political way ... take credit for eveyrthing good that happens while in office, even if there's no direct connection ... and downplay anything bad that happens, or blame it on others.

It's not unique to here, it's just the way of American politics.

Frankly, I'm tired of seeing all these politicians pat themselves on the back, or say who's endorsing them. I want to see who has a PLAN for the future to keep Lakewood strong. What are their ideas? What initiatives do they want to propose? How are they going to address the issues??

We're not seeing any of that, we're just seeing the same old horse manure, just in a new bag.

Can't someone step up and say what they want for Lakewood? What they stand for? Or is it just easier to praise themselves and count the endorsements?

Maybe I'm being too radical here?

[sharon kinsella]

C. Dawson -

There are websites where they have their plans (or lack thereof written out). Click their profile on here and they have their websites listed.

Interesting or boring reading depending where you're looking.

[Stan Austin]

Scott--- Graphs can be misleading and this one doesn't tell the full story. The complete explanation is that under the leadership of Tom George the city REDUCED significantly permit fees, specifically that portion that was based on the expected value of building or improvements.
Those bar graphs represent dollar amounts of fees. Had the old fees been in existence, the income from permit fees would have been exponentially higher than is represented.
And, I might point out, that the Library which you serve so ably as a trustee, and the schools have benefited from the fee reductions.
This has enabled our partnering institutions to complete their projects within budget so that we can all enjoy their benefits.
Stan Austin

[dl meckes]

The library saved $134,528, Harrison School saved $105,400, Hayes $93,650, Garfield $204,413 and Harding saved $183,991 through the economic stimulus package.

I remember hearing that if the Shops at West End didn't go through, Lakewood was going to wither and die because nobody wanted to do anything here. That wasn't exactly true, because several projects were in the works.

It seems that in the past few years, developers are lining up to do projects in Lakewood and there has been more building than I can remember.

I'm partisan. I think some of that interest can be credited to the present administration's ability to work with people.

I also think that endorsements represent a willingness to partner. But again, I'm partisan.

[Dee Martinez]

The library saved $134,528, Harrison School saved $105,400, Hayes $93,650, Garfield $204,413 and Harding saved $183,991 through the economic stimulus package.

.

Can you elaborate on that a bit?
Because it sounds like your saying the city gave the schools and library a tax break.
But the schools and library are funded by.....us.
In other words, the city didnt make the taxpayers pay $700,000 in extra taxes on top of the extra taxes they already approved. That doesnt sound like all that magnanamous a gesture.

That cant be what your saying, can it?

[dl meckes]

Dee-

The savings come from discounted rates on the permit fees.

[Shawn Juris]

still not clear for me. were the permit fees going to be paid for by the construction company or by the schools and library? I guess it makes sense not to go through the accounting on something that just moves money around. Is that the point of this?

[dl meckes]

The permit fees are most likely paid by the construction company, but they are line items in the overall project cost.

[Stephen Eisel]

The permit fees are most likely paid by the construction company, but they are line items in the overall project cost.

So who is on first?

[Dee Martinez]

I guess I find it rather incomprehensible that the library or schools would have been liable for city permit fees in the first place.

Thats kind of like adding sales tax to your income tax bill.

[dl meckes]

Building permits are necessary for building projects. They help pay for the inspectors who make sure that work is properly done and that it follows all the code set in place (2006 is the most recent code) by the State of Ohio.

The city can't waive permits, the State of Ohio is pretty picky about how building code is followed and it is up the each city to enforce that building codes are being met.

I can't comprehend the outrage if construction doesn't meet the state set codes for public buildings.

[Scott Kermode]

Thanks Stan and DL. I appreciate your clarification. Admittedly my original post was a knee-jerk reaction but it was honestly nonpartisan in nature. I have no idea who I will support for mayor at this point. That said, I'm still uneasy about how the stats are used in the context of the ad. As Stan said, "Graphs can be misleading and this one doesn't tell the full story", but that's politics.

[dl meckes]

The permit fees are most likely paid by the construction company, but they are line items in the overall project cost.

So who is on first?

If I've got a project, I have to have a budget for that project. One of the line items for the project is going to be permit fees. It doesn't matter who pays for the permits (the contractors or me), permits must be purchased. If I fail to understand the cost of the permits, my budget is going to be a mess.

So when we had a big leak, we had to get a permit to fix the plumbing and the bathrooms and the walls that were going to be involved.

We got the permits and had to get an inspection prior to the work being done so we could show what work was going to be done. There were further inspections during the course of the project and a final inspection before all the walls were closed up.

If a permit cost a few hundred dollars, it didn't matter who paid. That money was going to come out of our pockets either way and it's a lot less expensive to get the permit up front, as is required by law, than to wait and gamble on what might happen.

[c. dawson]

I'm reminded of the famed saying about statistics (I believe it was Benjamin Disraeli) who said that there are only three kinds of lies ... lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Anyone can slant any statistic, for any purpose. And every politician would. But just go into any election with a sense of caveat emptor, and see what they're really standing for, and what they're really proposing, and try to separate the electioneering hyperbole and BS from the real substance ... and also who you feel comfortable with as the "CEO" of Lakewood, Inc. Remember, we're the shareholders, so the CEO and the Board (City Council) are responsible for us. Tip O'Neill was wise when he said that "All politics are local," because really at the local level, we have the biggest input, and the biggest impact. I definitely plan on reading everything the candidates have read, and I look forward to any possible debates. I want my vote to count ... and want it to be worth something.