Lakewood Entertainment District (s)

[john crino]

I moved this from another thread hoping for an more specific discussion...Has anyone ever proposed an entertainment district within Lakewood?
For example, From 117th to Warren Road on Madison is one district. Within this district is a free trolley for bar patrons to hop on and off of between bars or from a muni parking lot that the city owns on 117th. Entertainment district patrons park at the lot on 117th and hop on the free trolley that goes from the lot to Warren and back. If you pay maybe $3. to park at the lot then you can ride the trolley for free all night with your receipt. At one end of the parking lot is maybe a cab stand for people who do not wish to get back in their cars and drive at the end of the night.
This keeps the district somewhat free of auto traffic and and entices people to visit more establishments within the district because they can drink and hop on the trolley and not have to look for parking.
Also, within this district are slightly different nuisance laws. Maybe the decibel level is permitted to be elevated for bars and bands within the district. Meaning if the noise bothers you then you don't live within the district. Also, within the district are street food carts,public bathrooms,more garbage cans,a pedestrian street cleaning crew and maybe some rent a cops that work the district between 10 and 3am on Friday and Saturday. If you own a business within the district you pay a yearly fee to cover the extras provided within the district.

I feel this would provide a destination within Lakewood for bar/entertainment patrons, would increase security in the area, make it more desirable for businesses to relocate within the district and separate the partyers from the Lakewood residents that do not wish to be a part of the "bar scene". A district may also relieve some pressure on the local LPD so they can be elsewhere.
What do folks think?

[Ryan Salo]

I really like that idea, it is similar to a lot of downtown districts (16th street mall in Denver). I had actually proposed this to the local bar association when I was running for office 2 years ago. The biggest complaint that I heard from quite a few west end area bar owners was that it gives the cops a place to find people drinking and driving if they all parked in group parking lots.

I guess the bar owners are for the patrons parking way down on side streets and walking back to their cars loaded!

I heard the trolley's worked well on the wing crawl, maybe Shawn will post.

I hope something like this happens!

[john crino]

I really like that idea, it is similar to a lot of downtown districts (16th street mall in Denver). I had actually proposed this to the local bar association when I was running for office 2 years ago. The biggest complaint that I heard from quite a few west end area bar owners was that it gives the cops a place to find people drinking and driving if they all parked in group parking lots.

I guess the bar owners are for the patrons parking way down on side streets and walking back to their cars loaded!

I heard the trolley's worked well on the wing crawl, maybe Shawn will post.

I hope something like this happens!

I would hope that a parking lot for district patrons would not leave them sitting ducks at closing time but maybe we can find some other similar plans that have been enacted and see how it has been going.

[Jim O'Bryan]

John

I had worked with Tim Malley three years ago on Detroit Theater to Around the Corner as the "Entertainment District" of course we had it branded with a different surname at the time.

This was when the bars were willing to help pay for block watches around the bars.

Many of the ideas were shot down and/or co-opted by other civic groups who then dropped the ball. I believe one of the signs is in my basement.

How much are the bars willing to spend on buying land for a parking lot? Are they willing to kick in for the shuttle, the insurance, the gas, labor etc.? Or do we borrow from Operation Head Start to move the drunks around?

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[Shawn Juris]

John
The first step that I see is getting a truly collaborative spirit amongst the bars. With that they can achieve the critical mass or strength in numbers needed to do things like this. Bars are Lakewood's biggest industry. Now are our 56 establishments competing against each other or willing to collaborate to compete against others? I've heard and experience both sides of it and hope that the good fight is winning out.
As for the trolley before taking it on themselves, I would think that contracting the service for a trial period would make sense. Forget the common parking lot and the risk of cherry picking drunk drivers, cops can do that outside any bar so that's really not a valid reason to not do this. I really think that those who live in Lakewood would be able to stop at their corner pub and pick up the trolley to the place that they're going to. Lakewoodites wouldn't have to worry about even taking their cars out of the garage. It's been a couple months but for a while Westlake cab was doing $4 to anywhere in Lakewood. Decide not to wait around for the trolley and it's not like you're spending a fortune to get home or walking 3 miles. So back to the contracting. Limos or Lolly types of businesses are used to dealing with the enebriated and are insured for such a risk. Let them worry about it and let it gain momentum before even considering buying a bus, hiring a driver and finding a policy for this venture.
In terms of the entertainment district, doesn't part of the historic charm of Lakewood include the neighborhood pub or the old adage of a bar and church at every intersection. A district sounds intriguing but I'm not sure of it's efficiency or effectiveness but that all depends on our objective.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bars are Lakewood's biggest industry. Now are our 56 establishments competing against each other or willing to collaborate to compete against others?

Shawn

Are you sure it is Lakewood's "biggest" industry?

What does it add to the economy?

What is the cost?

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[Bryan Schwegler]

Also, within this district are slightly different nuisance laws. Maybe the decibel level is permitted to be elevated for bars and bands within the district. Meaning if the noise bothers you then you don't live within the district.

So are you going to be the one to tell those in the poorest neighborhood in Lakewood they need to move if they don't like the noise? Doesn't really seem fair to them and it's not like they have the money to easily move "if they don't like it".

Why not lift the nuisance law on the West End first and see how that goes over? Or in Clifton Park?

[Bill Call]

For example, From 117th to Warren Road on Madison is one district. Within this district is a free trolley for bar patrons to hop on and off of between bars or from a muni parking lot that the city owns on 117th. Entertainment district patrons park at the lot on 117th and hop on the free trolley that goes from the lot to Warren and back.

This idea has merit.

I would call the area a cafe district rather an entertainment district. I think it might be a good idea to narrow the road to accomadate sidewalk cafes for bar/restrauants that generate more than 50% of their revenue from food.

[David Lay]

Also, within this district are slightly different nuisance laws. Maybe the decibel level is permitted to be elevated for bars and bands within the district. Meaning if the noise bothers you then you don't live within the district.

I don't like that idea, either. I'll have to side with Bryan on this one...I've lived in Madison Village for over 3 years now, and I shouldn't have to move because of noise.

Dealing with the neighbors in the building next door is enough as it is!

[Dee Martinez]

I believe I am with Mr. Call and Mr. Schwegler on this.

What would these districts be built on, aside from bulk sales of fermented and distilled beverages?

If you are going to exempt establishments from "nuisance laws," what compensation would there be for those already living in one of these zones? If you didnt know you were buying into an "entertainment district" 20 or 30 years ago, would you not have a complaint that you are now living on Pleasure Island?
Pittsburghs South Side is an area that combines entertainment (not just bars) and residential But the residential was largely derelict prior to the development of the entertainment scene. The zone was a shot in the arm for the neighborhood.
Lakewood is different.
My gut feeling is that any economic development based largely on alcohol has limited long range prospects.

[Jim O'Bryan]

This idea has merit.

I would call the area a cafe district rather an entertainment district. I think it might be a good idea to narrow the road to accomadate sidewalk cafes for bar/restrauants that generate more than 50% of their revenue from food.

Which could be done on Madison, unlike Detroit. I do believe.


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[Joe Ott]

Madison from about Elbur down to just past the Library should be bulldozered (is that a word?) over and turned into Lakewood's version of Crocker Park. Lots of potential down in there.

[Rick Uldricks]

I'm all for these ideas if they improve Lakewood and somehow improve my neighborhood and property value. However, the idea of promoting drinking and a never-ending Madison-crawl sounds like it might create more problems than it solves.

I like Joe's idea.

Madison from about Elbur down to just past the Library should be bulldozered (is that a word?) over and turned into Lakewood's version of Crocker Park. Lots of potential down in there.

[David Lay]

Madison from about Elbur down to just past the Library should be bulldozered (is that a word?) over and turned into Lakewood's version of Crocker Park. Lots of potential down in there.

Hey, I live in that part of Madison!

[Joe Ott]

However, the idea of promoting drinking and a never-ending Madison-crawl sounds like it might create more problems than it solves.

I was going to post the same basic thing but removed it from my post as it was getting a bit too wordy...

I agree. There's too many bars. Lets not add to it. I can't believe more bars, more noise, and so on would do anything to help resale values let alone the overall image of the city.

Listen, I like to party just as much as the next guy, but one it's not a very good example for kids and two I don't want to be known as the guy from the 'city of bars'.

Suppose you are a young couple with Wally and Beaver in the back seat driving around one Saturday afternoon looking at houses thinking of moving to Lakewood. You, Ward, are driving down say Detroit. You and your wife, June are trying to find Pine Street. Ward says 'honey it should be close, watch for it'. June says 'oh, there it is! See over there? There's a bar on each corner. Over there. See where that group of guys are standing outside smoking on either corner?' Ward says 'oh golly Neds. Yeah, um, lets go to the next one on our list instead Dear. I don't want the Beave to pass that on his way to the park everyday...'

I don't know the answers but I'm just saying that I don't think, in todays day and age, promoting bars and entertainment districts is in the best interest of the city and its long term goals whatever those may be. I think it would be nice to be known as the guy from the 'city that has fresh, modern, and progressive ideas and is on it's way back'.

Bars are yesterday.