Petition Drive

Ryan Patrick Demro · Post by **Ryan Patrick Demro** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:13 pm

Fellow Lakewoodites,

As you may know, County Commissioners Hagan and Dimora voted this week to increase our sales tax from 7.5 to 7.75%. Beyond the economic arguments, this tax will be raised without a vote of the people. I am leading an effort in conjunction with Cleveland Councilman Zack Reed and others to place this issue on the ballot in March. We must collect 45,000 signatures in 28 days.

If are interested in circulating a petition, please join me at the Lakewood YMCA Community Room at 2pm this Sunday (tomorrow). The meeting will be short, informational, and you will receive petitions at that time.

Mary Breiner · Post by **Mary Breiner** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:38 am

Keep in mind: that is one quarter of one penny, 25 cents on one hundred dollars. Take all those petitions and all those people and energy and put it into something else. You seem to be undermining everything positive that is happening (or trying to happen) in Cleveland. Yes, they put this through without a vote of the people...but you must be used to that by now...just look at our President and his administration.
Just my opinion.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:40 am

I think that the larger issue at hand is that the county commissioners decided to enact this tax without a public vote.

It's a classic case of taxation without representation.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:55 am

David Lay wrote:It's a classic case of taxation without representation.

Not many ways to say it better.

How does anybody know this will be a good thing? Will it stop the mass exodus from the city? Schools, Schools, Schools, oh yeah and Schools.

Richard Cole · Post by **Richard Cole** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:03 am

Jim DeVito wrote:
David Lay wrote:It's a classic case of taxation without representation.
Not many ways to say it better.

The Commisioners are our representatives, they are elected. You may disagree with the quarter in a $100 raise, but it's not taxation without representation.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:09 am

Take all those petitions and all those people and energy and put it into something else. You seem to be undermining everything positive that is happening (or trying to happen) in Cleveland.

Whether it is for a good cause or not is not my problem. My problem is that we should have the decision whether or not to raise taxes. If the people of Cuyahoga county feel that a sales tax increase is needed then they will vote that way, but they should be afforded the opportunity to vote. As for it only being a quarter of a percent increase, it all adds up and people are beginning to notice it has all added up to a lot. I applaud Mr. Demro for stepping across party lines and doing what is right. I do notice our other officials are still silent on this. I guess I know where they stand on raising taxes.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:12 am

Richard Cole wrote: The Commisioners are our representatives, they are elected. You may disagree with the quarter in a $100 raise, but it's not taxation without representation.

It is taxation without representation -- representation of a public vote.

Other tax increases have been voted on by the public...why not this one? Is it because they are afraid it will be defeated in the court of public opinion?

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:16 am

Richard Cole wrote:The Commisioners are our representatives, they are elected. You may disagree with the quarter in a $100 raise, but it's not taxation without representation.

Also a valid point. However I thought it was the job of elected officials to make decisions based on the will of the majority. That being said I do not believe the majority of the people who elected these commissioners would approve of the tax hike without a popular vote.

Richard Cole · Post by **Richard Cole** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:16 am

Kevin O'Brien had an interesting piece in the PD

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindeal ... thispage=1

"Since the subject of a tax increase came up, angry taxpayers have been asking how the commissioners have the power to impose it without a vote of the people. The answer is that state law confers that power on whomever the county's voters choose to lead them."

Could the Commisioners gone for a referendum? Yes
Do they have to? No

Jim DeVito wrote;
"I thought it was the job of elected officials to make decisions based on......"

I'm not conviced Polls is a good answer, but it is a good question.

Dee Krupp · Post by **Dee Krupp** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:27 am

It may only be .25, but we are the highest taxed county in Ohio...and what do we have to show for it? It's getting out of hand.

Where can I sign the petition?

Phil Florian · Post by **Phil Florian** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:03 am

Jim DeVito wrote:I thought it was the job of elected officials to make decisions based on the will of the majority.

No, that isn't true. They are supposed to do their job which is to benefit the entire county, not just the majority that voted them into office. You are speaking of mob rule, not majority rule. Mob rule gets us things like gay marriage bans, inane strip-club laws or broadly and poorly designed/defined smoking bans.

This is precisely why we have elected officials, so that the mob rule mentality (which is faulty, at best) isn't in play for every decision that needs to be made in government. If we did, nothing would get done. We don't like the way our elected officials make decisions, we vote them out the next time we get the opportunity.

Mr. Demro is simply acting like the typical American voter who wants their will enacted NOW! This plays on both sides of the political fence so don't take it as a Republican vs. Democrat thing, either. We have a process to put elected officials into positions to carry on the day to day operations of government. Every 2, 4 or 6 years (depending on the office) we get a chance to rate their performance and choose to put them back or find someone else. The people who created this system of government were far wiser than we are today, I think. It is the height of representative government in the world but in today's action-oriented society it is too slow, I guess.

So now when we don't like something that an elected official does, we have to constantly second guess them immediately and try to have mob-rule "fix" the problem instead of using already established methods of working within the government. We have the phone number and address of every elected official. If people lined up at Tim Hagan's doorstep every day for a year to complain about taxes, that might change things. It takes effort and time to do that and, again, that is too slow for our society so we sign a petition and wipe our hands of it.

A broader plan to help the County and Region involves, I would assume, a lot of issues and activities. Taxes would be one piece only. If at the end of their term they can't show that the county is better because of all their actions, kick them out. If we second guess each piece of it and then expect them to perform then we will never have success.

As for the other Ward representatives being "silent" on this, that is fine by me. They should have plenty of other things to keep them busy that are directly involving Lakewood, not the entire county.

Joe Ott · Post by **Joe Ott** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:06 am

Dee Krupp wrote:It may only be .25, but we are the highest taxed county in Ohio...and what do we have to show for it? It's getting out of hand.

Where can I sign the petition?

2nd or 3rd highest I think I've read. But yeah, what do we have to show for it except of course the schools and library.

When is enough enough (that's been said here a gazillion times I think)? I'd still like to know when I voted on the R.I.T.A tax. What? I didn't get to? Hmmm. Nice.

I'm moving to Lorain County in a couple years. Maybe Licking or Franklin Counties or Columbus...

Phil Florian · Post by **Phil Florian** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:13 am

Whoa, thanks for the post of the O'Brien editorial. I usually find his right-wing driven banter to be mildly annoying so I color me surprised when I read this editorial. He basically described Mr. Demro and many of the petition signers accurately. If folks haven't read it, they should. Some telling quotes:

What's sad is that when the backlash comes, it won't come because people think the Medical Mart is a bad idea. It will come because people who are overtaxed welcome the chance to say "no" to paying higher taxes, and because they'll want to "punish" Hagan and Dimora. They'll figure the quickest path to revenge will be to kill their precious Medical Mart.

Except that it isn't their Medical Mart, and the commissioners won't feel a thing. If they've miscalculated and the backlash turns out to be sufficient to undo the tax and kill the project, they'll still be in office, consoling themselves with, "Hey, we tried, but the public didn't get it."

And the angry people will clap one another on the back and say, quite sincerely, "I guess we showed them!" They'll be quite sincerely wrong.

It's OK to be angry, but not to be so angry that good ideas start looking like bad ones. Once the financing solidifies, maybe the Medical Mart won't be worth supporting. But condemning it before the public costs are clear would be just plain stupid - just as committing to it would be. We all need to know more.

-Kevin O'Brien, Plain Dealer, July 18, 2007

Jay Foran · Post by **Jay Foran** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:51 am

Not a big fan of how all of this has been orchestrated......

....but nonetheless......If the Medical Mart makes it to a vote of the people

...the project will be lost. I believe Mr. O'Brien of the PD is right.

Worst of all...if it goes to the ballot....those in favor of it....will spend $5 million dollars trying to convince taxpayers to vote for it. Wouldn't that $5 million dollars be better spent trying to woo medical suppliers, device makers, etc. to relocate their business to Northeast Ohio instead of spending it on campaign commercials?

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:00 am

Phil Florian wrote:You are speaking of mob rule, not majority rule. Mob rule gets us things like gay marriage bans, inane strip-club laws or broadly and poorly designed/defined smoking bans.

You are correct. I was thinking more cynically. I saw a very interesting piece on PBS last night about the relationship between special interest groups and politicians. I have a feeling that behind some of this is very rich people who would like to get more rich at the expense of people (poor Cleveland city dwellers) who may not have the _______ necessary to stand up for themselves.

In the end if the commissioners truly are acting in the best interest of the people who elected them, Great. Problem is city, state and national government are more than lacking in the credibility department now a days. There are many things in Cleveland that need fixing and I think they are doing the people of Cleveland an injustice by not focusing on things to directly improve their standard of living.