Avon Lake Church To Provide Low Income Housing In Lakewood?

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Jim O'Bryan
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Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Dee Martinez wrote: I think Ms Farris made a completely valid point. Even though his intentions may have been perfectly sincere and honorable, the actions of the landlord seem only slightly on this side of legal. Is it so inconceivable that the other tenants would veto a new one because they "talked funny" or "I couldn't understand what they were saying?"

This could conceivably raise some eyebrows. There ARE laws against discrimination and I don't think the landlord can hide behind the fact that the other tenants didn't want them. Official "tenants associations" can screen (the famous Seinfeld episode covered that) but the criteria have to be specifically laid out. Litigious or no we are a nation of laws.
Again, I speak from the perspective of someone with a surname that immediately marks you for "special handling", even if my Cornish pasties are far superior to my arroz con pollo.
Dee

I think you have summed it up perfectly.

The questions that need to be asked.

If the tenants chose for a reason that is illegal then the landlord would be blamed and held liable.

Slightly on one side of legal is legal, and fair in my opinion.

There has to be mechanisms in place and I think there are where a landlord can rent for a price he seems fair. Not any price the renter wants. That a landlord can rent to a person he knows cannot take care of the property. That financially a landlords costs are covered. Think of where this slippery slope puts us. We are asking owners to keep their homes up, and asking them to take in those that might not help him achieve that? We are talking of fining landlords for nuisance renters but not letting them say no when they feel they might be nuisances?

Race should never fall into any discussion if you are not looking for a specific person. I know it sounds crazy but I do not understand how it finds it way into so many discussions here. Usually brought up by the person against racism? When we stop talking black and white it will stop being a delineating factor in life. Then and only then we will be one race, the human race.

To discriminate on race, gender, lifestyle, religion and beliefs is wrong and illegal. But we cannot afford to take away responsibility, financial viability, and just plan problem people.

These are good topics and questions for this period of time in Lakewood. We have many people calling for safety and better test scores. Another group screaming for no more taxes, another group bringing in various groups that can possible break many of the city services, and another couple groups bringing in groups that will for the short term bring down NCLB grades. Where does Lakewood go? What do Lakewoodites do?

Question: In Lakewood's tough job market where do we stand on bringing in 50 middle age males of any color you want to pick and promise them work, food, rent and support for at least 6 months?

Is it a promise we can even afford to make?



.
Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Lynn Farris
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Post by Lynn Farris »

Jim you said
I am not here to defend Jim's comment but I am just curious. Where did you get white only from his message?
History. Like Dee said, maybe the landlord Jim knew had nothing but the best intentions, but these kind of comments provide a very slippery slope.

People have been kept out of cities because of many reasons, their religion, the color of their skin, their ethnic origin and the sexual orientation. But if we can use a simple word like compatibility all of the discrimination in the world can be justified.

JMHO.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
Jim DeVito
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Post by Jim DeVito »

To Clarify

Excerpt from : http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/housing/title8.htm

Sec. 804. [42 U.S.C. 3604] Subtype B States it is unlawful to… “To discriminate against any person in the terms, conditions, or privileges of sale or rental of a dwelling, or in the provision of services or facilities in connection therewith, because of race, color, religion, sex, familial status, or national origin.â€Â￾

None of the above mentioned things came into play during the decision making process. The fact of the matter is I don’t care if you are as white and as rich as Bill Gates. If you are going to throw your trash in my yard and drop the “Fâ€Â￾ bomb in front of my daughter I do not want you to live next door. If you are going to be a well mannered individual who respects the rights of you neighbors then by all means move right it.
Dee Martinez
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Post by Dee Martinez »

Mr. DeVito.

I dont doubt your sincerity for a moment. I will say no more as this is your property and your issue, not mine.

But to Mr. O'Bryan

The reason "race always comes up" is because, as weve tried to discuss in other threads, its the issue Lakewood hasnt dealt with yet.

We're tolerant, accepting, even in some cases, enthusiastic about our gay neighbors, because weve lived next door for years. We know our kids arent being assaulted by them on their way home from school. If anything, their homes generally look better than anyone's on the block.
Weve even reached our acceptance of the Muslim population (which WAS a huge issue 15 years ago) because theyre here and were used to it. And its not the young Muslims causing havoc outside Johnny Molloys.

On the other hand, seeing Black faces is still new and unknown. If youre in Shaker you may have an African-American neurologist or corporate attorney or school principal on your block. In Lakewood the only Black faces we seem to encounter are jaywalking on Madison or sitting at the bus shelter. Unlike gays and Muslims we have no positive images (yet) of an African American community.
Will that change? History can take us in two different directions. But while I deplore racism, I understand xenophobia.
Much as you probably dont want to hear me say this, Lakewood is not particularly "special" in this regard. We ALL fear what were not familiar with
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Jim O'Bryan
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Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Dee Martinez wrote:On the other hand, seeing Black faces is still new and unknown. If youre in Shaker you may have an African-American neurologist or corporate attorney or school principal on your block.
Dee

I understand your point, but do not completely agree with it.

I still think we are confusing a behavior problem with a race problem. But I have been assured by many I could never understand because I was born the wrong color (pale pink -Irish thing), and the wrong religion (Obism), the wrong height 6' 4", however I have tried to feel some of the pain with eating sweets and bulking up. I have been dead broke many times living in a friends basement while I found a job. By maybe that was not poor enough. Besides I am the blessed color (pale pink -Irish thing).

OK here is the line I wish I would never use again! I have some black friends in Lakewood that have lived here for years without any problems.

One person mentions Section 8, and immediately it is a black thing. when the majority of Scetion 8 people are not black.

Someone mentions a landlord asking tenants what they think of a renter, it is a black thing.

The baggy panted kids walking down the middle of the street. The missing hoops. Etc. Is not white or black it is behavior. If it white or black than they should be prosecuted, it is wrong.

At some point we really have to move past and think of humans.

To turn so many of these problems turned into race issues only sells short the problem and stops us from finding a real solution.

Frustrating.


.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Stephen Eisel
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Post by Stephen Eisel »

Dee Martinez wrote:Mr. DeVito.

I dont doubt your sincerity for a moment. I will say no more as this is your property and your issue, not mine.

But to Mr. O'Bryan

The reason "race always comes up" is because, as weve tried to discuss in other threads, its the issue Lakewood hasnt dealt with yet.

We're tolerant, accepting, even in some cases, enthusiastic about our gay neighbors, because weve lived next door for years. We know our kids arent being assaulted by them on their way home from school. If anything, their homes generally look better than anyone's on the block.
Weve even reached our acceptance of the Muslim population (which WAS a huge issue 15 years ago) because theyre here and were used to it. And its not the young Muslims causing havoc outside Johnny Molloys.

On the other hand, seeing Black faces is still new and unknown. If youre in Shaker you may have an African-American neurologist or corporate attorney or school principal on your block. In Lakewood the only Black faces we seem to encounter are jaywalking on Madison or sitting at the bus shelter. Unlike gays and Muslims we have no positive images (yet) of an African American community.
Will that change? History can take us in two different directions. But while I deplore racism, I understand xenophobia.
Much as you probably dont want to hear me say this, Lakewood is not particularly "special" in this regard. We ALL fear what were not familiar with
Just curious, who are you to say "that black faces are still unknow?"
Dee Krupp
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Post by Dee Krupp »

This doesn't have to be a bad thing, but people are scared because of past experiences. Too many renters...not to mention free ones....don't tend to care about their property, but as we all know that doesn't mean they all don't. If this program is put in place to help people get back on their feet...they're not just looking for a handout. They're trying to put their lives back together.
Dee Martinez
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Post by Dee Martinez »

Stephen Eisel wrote: Just curious, who are you to say "that black faces are still unknow?"
Im someone who has lived in Lakewood for about 23 yrs. I also know that as little as four years ago, the ethnic population of Lakewood schools was less than 1 percent African-American. So I think I can say statistically and anecdotally that this is a population thats new to Lakewood.

Who are you to question me?

To Mr. O'Bryan. Youre absolutely right. People make snap decisions, draw inaccurate conclusions, react on perceptions rather than facts. Lakewood, like virtually every other city in the world, is not immune from prejudice ("prejudice" meaning "pre judging" as opposed to "racist", I don't like your race no matter what the facts are).

People do all kind of inappropriate things because, well, theyre PEOPLE.
The question is what, besides wagging your finger and saying "bad prejudiced person" is a workable solution?
Stephen Eisel
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Post by Stephen Eisel »

Dee Martinez wrote:Mr. DeVito.

I dont doubt your sincerity for a moment. I will say no more as this is your property and your issue, not mine.

But to Mr. O'Bryan

The reason "race always comes up" is because, as weve tried to discuss in other threads, its the issue Lakewood hasnt dealt with yet.

We're tolerant, accepting, even in some cases, enthusiastic about our gay neighbors, because weve lived next door for years. We know our kids arent being assaulted by them on their way home from school. If anything, their homes generally look better than anyone's on the block.
Weve even reached our acceptance of the Muslim population (which WAS a huge issue 15 years ago) because theyre here and were used to it. And its not the young Muslims causing havoc outside Johnny Molloys.

On the other hand, seeing Black faces is still new and unknown. If youre in Shaker you may have an African-American neurologist or corporate attorney or school principal on your block. In Lakewood the only Black faces we seem to encounter are jaywalking on Madison or sitting at the bus shelter. Unlike gays and Muslims we have no positive images (yet) of an African American community.
Will that change? History can take us in two different directions. But while I deplore racism, I understand xenophobia.
Much as you probably dont want to hear me say this, Lakewood is not particularly "special" in this regard. We ALL fear what were not familiar with
I love how you stereotype all gay people as having beautiful homes and lecture all of us on the status of the African Americans in Lakewood. It appears to me that you like turning every discussion into an issue of race. You are the one constantly pointing out skin color. These discussions have nothing to do with skin color. They have to do with behavior. People are allowed to have different opinions with out being called a racist.
Stephen Eisel
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Post by Stephen Eisel »

Dee Martinez wrote:
Stephen Eisel wrote: Just curious, who are you to say "that black faces are still unknow?"
Im someone who has lived in Lakewood for about 23 yrs. I also know that as little as four years ago, the ethnic population of Lakewood schools was less than 1 percent African-American. So I think I can say statistically and anecdotally that this is a population thats new to Lakewood.

Who are you to question me?

To Mr. O'Bryan. Youre absolutely right. People make snap decisions, draw inaccurate conclusions, react on perceptions rather than facts. Lakewood, like virtually every other city in the world, is not immune from prejudice ("prejudice" meaning "pre judging" as opposed to "racist", I don't like your race no matter what the facts are).

People do all kind of inappropriate things because, well, theyre PEOPLE.
The question is what, besides wagging your finger and saying "bad prejudiced person" is a workable solution?
I am not the one making a statement for the entire population of Lakweood on the status of black faces in our community. You may not realize this but the city to the east of us has a large African American population.. You should get out a little more.. just sayin
Dee Martinez
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Post by Dee Martinez »

OK, I take it back. Gays have ugly houses they dont take care of. Feel better?

Ill let average readers and posters decide whether the comments you so boldly bolded are that far out of line.
Im looking for openness because openess creates understanding. Yes, there is a budding racial issue in Cleveland and I would much rather discuss it rationally than pretend it doesnt exist. Mr OBryan is right. When many people in Lakewood use the term "Section 8" it IS code for "Black" whether you want to accept it or not.

Again I ask the question I have asked before. How do you KNOW someone is Section 8? Is it because they have tattoos on their foreheads? Because theres a big sign on the door that says "Section 8 House"? Or maybe...it's....because....their.....faces....are.....
Oops. Cant be it. Nope. No racism here.
Methinks you doth protest a bit too much.
Stephen Eisel
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Post by Stephen Eisel »

Dee Martinez wrote:OK, I take it back. Gays have ugly houses they dont take care of. Feel better?

Ill let average readers and posters decide whether the comments you so boldly bolded are that far out of line.

Im looking for openness because openess creates understanding. Yes, there is a budding racial issue in Cleveland and I would much rather discuss in rationally than pretend it doesnt exist. Mr OBryan is right. When many people in Lakewood use the term "Section 8" it IS code for "Black" whether you want to accept it or not.

Again I ask the question I have asked before. How do you KNOW someone is Section 8? Is it because they have tattoos on their foreheads? Because theres a big sign on the door that says "Section 8 House"? Or maybe...it's....because....their.....faces....are.....
Oops. Can't be it. Nope. No racism here.
Methinks you doth protest a bit too much.
Do as I say not as I do should be your motto :) Section 8 is not code for black. I have met many people (all who were white) who have told me that they are recipients of Section 8.. People are not ashamed of the fact that they are on Government assistance. And you should be one to talk about people protesting too much.. Try not assuming that all white people are racist or that everyone on this board is white..
Beajay Michaud
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Post by Beajay Michaud »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:[The baggy panted kids walking down the middle of the street. The missing hoops. Etc. Is not white or black it is behavior. If it white or black than they should be prosecuted, it is wrong.

At some point we really have to move past and think of humans.

To turn so many of these problems turned into race issues only sells short the problem and stops us from finding a real solution.

Frustrating.


.
Jim I agree with you. Last night Lakewood Police Officers had several people stopped at the corner of Grace and Detroit. They were on foot the officers were going through the guys pockets and padding them down. They all had on baggy pants and long shirts. They all looked like someone I would not open my front door too and they were all white.
Rick Uldricks

Re: Tenant

Post by Rick Uldricks »


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Jim O'Bryan
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Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Beajay

I really hate to go through much of this, I really do.

We are always go to have people of all colors not udnerrstand and even dislike others. We can work and work to try to correct it. Or, we can address the problem while turning a blind eye to it and move the discussion forward.

Everything in this thread and in others is not about race, it is about behavior.

We need to focus on behavior regardless of color, and how they come to live in a house.

At the same time we must focus on clean and safe and how we can pay for that. While not losing services.

FWIW

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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