Stephen,
Thank you, and I think our consensus underscores an important point:
Dave, Justine, Sharon, and all...
We need you ALL to help with our direction in Lakewood. By "we", I don't mean to sound patronizing. It's just that there were a number of nights, for example, that the Community Development Block Grant Committee met last year that no one except the people directly affected showed up. Our public hearings begin in August down at City Hall. If you come, you might want to speak, or simply listen to the many ways that we have to help the afflicted in the community, and you can help us by your presence in learning more about what's been done, and what continues as concerns with the disadvantaged in this City.
Let your passions become your visions. Learn and grow and develop new ideas that we can all learn from.
Find other areas that you can roll up your sleeves and help out with. You are needed. If, philosophically, you have trouble with one type of program, find one you can live with; or start your own. The poor and afflicted don't often have the luxury of philosophies.
Please help. Turn your anger into passionate, positive action.
New Restaurant on Detroit Ave.
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Gary -
You seem like a good man, what many on here don't know is that I've been doing these things my whole life.
I'm sick of arguing with people that are so defensive that can't see beyond their nose. Those that tell me that the words that have printed on this entire thread have not been said.
Those that would make light of the suffering of others.
I wonder what Sister Henrietta would make of the comments made here.
I, for one, know that I am no better than anyone else. I, for one, have stood up and taken a stand. I, for one, have always known that a society is judged by how they treat their weakest members.
You seem like a good man, what many on here don't know is that I've been doing these things my whole life.
I'm sick of arguing with people that are so defensive that can't see beyond their nose. Those that tell me that the words that have printed on this entire thread have not been said.
Those that would make light of the suffering of others.
I wonder what Sister Henrietta would make of the comments made here.
I, for one, know that I am no better than anyone else. I, for one, have stood up and taken a stand. I, for one, have always known that a society is judged by how they treat their weakest members.
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Bryan Schwegler
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Lakewood
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Dave Sharosky
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:27 pm
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Stephen Eisel
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:36 pm
I blame my poor profiling skills on Dave Chappelle.Bryan Schwegler wrote:Just out of curiosity, why is everyone assuming this girl is poor, destitute or bad off?
Strong language warning!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rVDrztqaP4
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Gary Rice
- Posts: 1651
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:59 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Sharon,
Thanks for your kind words, about my supposed goodness.
But as the Scriptures say, "There is none good"
You are wise to say that you are no better than others, but you are also a passionate child of God. As such we have to listen to what others are really saying in their hearts.
I believe as it is written, that we have all "Fallen short"
Because of this, I cannot look at another with hostility or moral superiority.
I believe that we all have "that of God" in us, and that we can therefore find at least a part of Truth.
When we seek after it.
As the Quakers said: "There are three sides to an argument, Thine, mine, and Truth."
Let us labor for that Truth.
Look at the discussion Stephen and I just had, for example. How did the two of us arrive at consensus?
Because we both cared.
Another Quaker expression, "When all else fails, have thee considered love?"
Your points are well taken, but others may not be ready to hear them.
Good things take a little time....
Thanks for your kind words, about my supposed goodness.
But as the Scriptures say, "There is none good"
You are wise to say that you are no better than others, but you are also a passionate child of God. As such we have to listen to what others are really saying in their hearts.
I believe as it is written, that we have all "Fallen short"
Because of this, I cannot look at another with hostility or moral superiority.
I believe that we all have "that of God" in us, and that we can therefore find at least a part of Truth.
When we seek after it.
As the Quakers said: "There are three sides to an argument, Thine, mine, and Truth."
Let us labor for that Truth.
Look at the discussion Stephen and I just had, for example. How did the two of us arrive at consensus?
Because we both cared.
Another Quaker expression, "When all else fails, have thee considered love?"
Your points are well taken, but others may not be ready to hear them.
Good things take a little time....
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Justine Cooper
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: Lakewood
Gary,
I will be happy to do what I can, and like Sharon have done what I can for years. I also attended the safety meeting at city hall and believe in doing what I can do help keep the city safe. I am not blind to problems in Lakewood but to hear some people talk, that is all they see! I feel like I live in a different Lakewood. I also believe we attract BOTH what we fear and what we want.
So instead of blaming or fearing, I will focus on doing what I can.
I will be happy to do what I can, and like Sharon have done what I can for years. I also attended the safety meeting at city hall and believe in doing what I can do help keep the city safe. I am not blind to problems in Lakewood but to hear some people talk, that is all they see! I feel like I live in a different Lakewood. I also believe we attract BOTH what we fear and what we want.
So instead of blaming or fearing, I will focus on doing what I can.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Stephen Eisel
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:36 pm
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
Gary -
I understand your point and I respect your opinion. Consensus involves give and take. I have explained myself over and over again. I can't reach consensus with a lot of people on here because they "do no wrong".
But I'm not crazy, I went back and read through the whole thread. Immediately after the picture of this young woman was shown, there were references to section 8 and ghetto. What conclusions would you suggest I draw. It's written, I did not make it up.
Some may deny their words, but I have read them again and they still say the same thing.
Dave -
You have misconstrued my meaning about a lot of this. I talked about the fight at 2:30 in the morning not because I thought it was acceptable behaviour, but because I wanted to show that the behaviour did not make me jump to the conclusion that these kids were "ghetto" or "section 8".
Neither should the picture of a young woman spark those thoughts.
I understand your point and I respect your opinion. Consensus involves give and take. I have explained myself over and over again. I can't reach consensus with a lot of people on here because they "do no wrong".
But I'm not crazy, I went back and read through the whole thread. Immediately after the picture of this young woman was shown, there were references to section 8 and ghetto. What conclusions would you suggest I draw. It's written, I did not make it up.
Some may deny their words, but I have read them again and they still say the same thing.
Dave -
You have misconstrued my meaning about a lot of this. I talked about the fight at 2:30 in the morning not because I thought it was acceptable behaviour, but because I wanted to show that the behaviour did not make me jump to the conclusion that these kids were "ghetto" or "section 8".
Neither should the picture of a young woman spark those thoughts.
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Gary Rice
- Posts: 1651
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:59 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Justine and all,
Three quotes attributed to Mother Teresa:
"We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty"
"We can do no great things, only small things with great love"
"It is easy to love the people far away. It is not always easy to love those close to us. It is easier to give a cup of rice to relieve hunger than to relieve the loneliness and pain of someone unloved in our own home. Bring love into your home for this is where our love for each other must start."
Yes Justine, Sharon and all- go and do what "that of God" calls you to do.
Three quotes attributed to Mother Teresa:
"We think sometimes that poverty is only being hungry, naked and homeless. The poverty of being unwanted, unloved and uncared for is the greatest poverty. We must start in our own homes to remedy this kind of poverty"
"We can do no great things, only small things with great love"
"It is easy to love the people far away. It is not always easy to love those close to us. It is easier to give a cup of rice to relieve hunger than to relieve the loneliness and pain of someone unloved in our own home. Bring love into your home for this is where our love for each other must start."
Yes Justine, Sharon and all- go and do what "that of God" calls you to do.
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sharon kinsella
- Posts: 1490
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 7:54 am
- Contact:
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Stephen Eisel
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:36 pm
enough saidsharon kinsella wrote:Gary -
I understand your point and I respect your opinion. Consensus involves give and take. I have explained myself over and over again. I can't reach consensus with a lot of people on here because they "do no wrong".
But I'm not crazy, I went back and read through the whole thread. Immediately after the picture of this young woman was shown, there were references to section 8 and ghetto. What conclusions would you suggest I draw. It's written, I did not make it up.
Some may deny their words, but I have read them again and they still say the same thing.
Dave -
You have misconstrued my meaning about a lot of this. I talked about the fight at 2:30 in the morning not because I thought it was acceptable behaviour, but because I wanted to show that the behaviour did not make me jump to the conclusion that these kids were "ghetto" or "section 8".
Neither should the picture of a young woman spark those thoughts.
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Justine Cooper
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: Lakewood
On Love and Fear
"Ultimately all thoughts are sponsored by love or fear.
This is the great polarity. This is the primal duality.
Everything, ultimately, breaks down to one of these.
All thoughts, ideas, concepts, understandings, decisions,
choices, and actions are based in one of these.
And in the end, there is only one.
Love.
In truth, love is all there is. Even fear is an outgrowth of love and, when used effectively, expresses love."
-Neale Donald Walsh
"Ultimately all thoughts are sponsored by love or fear.
This is the great polarity. This is the primal duality.
Everything, ultimately, breaks down to one of these.
All thoughts, ideas, concepts, understandings, decisions,
choices, and actions are based in one of these.
And in the end, there is only one.
Love.
In truth, love is all there is. Even fear is an outgrowth of love and, when used effectively, expresses love."
-Neale Donald Walsh
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Justine Cooper
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:12 am
- Location: Lakewood
Dave,
While this thread has come to its slow death, I have to go off topic to a comment you made about Lakewood not being safe to raise your children. I have been trying to figure out why that comment bothers me so much. During my insomniia last night I figured it out.
First, if you had said you wanted a bigger or newer house so wanted to move to a different community, I would not have thought twice about it. But to say this community is not safe or good enough to raise children felt insulting. I moved around every few years of my childhood and had to "fit in" every time we moved somewhere new. The most difficult place to do that was Anaheim Ca. While we were not poor, in California's definition we probably were perceived that way. As one of six kids we wore a lot of hand me downs and coming from Ohio where the latest fashions were at least three years behind, got laughed at. I will never forget the feeling of not fitting in because of outer appearance or material things. Although it took me years and self induced crisis to learn that who I was on the inside was all that mattered, I knew if I could teach my children only one thing, that would be it, and at a much earlier age than I learned it.
I was pulled to Lakewood while I was living in Philadelphia, thinking I would never move back to Ohio. I didn't know why I was pulled here and questioned it many times over the years. There are actually many reasons I think I am meant to be here, but most important, is that I think it is a great place for my children! It is not perfect and I hope we can all come up with solutions to continue to keep it safe, but for me it is as close to perfect for what I want for my children as I have seen, and I have seen a lot of places.
Lakewood is the most "real" place I have every lived, with the good, the bad and the ugly. We actually wanted a newer house and more land but bought our second house here almost solely because of the schools and how well our teen was doing in the high school. No way was I going to move him to a community where looks, clothes, or your athletic ability would define who you are. No way would I bring him anywhere that could give him the message that he was not good enough as he is. The friends he has in Lakewood are genuine people. They truly love each other for who they are.
It did not strike me until last night, WHY it was so important to be here so I thank you for raising the question in my mind. For solidifying why I am here. I still believe everyone fits into Lakewood, all races, all fashion styles, whether you are an athlete or artist in school, there is a place for you. And as the deck exemplifies, there is a place for all of us here, with all of our different opinions, political beliefs, religious beliefs. The fact that we can discuss racism and look inside ourselves to see who we are is far more than I have ever seen in any other community. Just because others don't talk about it, does not mean it does not exist in their communities.
If you choose to raise your children in another community I wish you the best, but to do it under the premise that Lakewood is not safe enough to raise children is simply a perception, not the truth.
While this thread has come to its slow death, I have to go off topic to a comment you made about Lakewood not being safe to raise your children. I have been trying to figure out why that comment bothers me so much. During my insomniia last night I figured it out.
First, if you had said you wanted a bigger or newer house so wanted to move to a different community, I would not have thought twice about it. But to say this community is not safe or good enough to raise children felt insulting. I moved around every few years of my childhood and had to "fit in" every time we moved somewhere new. The most difficult place to do that was Anaheim Ca. While we were not poor, in California's definition we probably were perceived that way. As one of six kids we wore a lot of hand me downs and coming from Ohio where the latest fashions were at least three years behind, got laughed at. I will never forget the feeling of not fitting in because of outer appearance or material things. Although it took me years and self induced crisis to learn that who I was on the inside was all that mattered, I knew if I could teach my children only one thing, that would be it, and at a much earlier age than I learned it.
I was pulled to Lakewood while I was living in Philadelphia, thinking I would never move back to Ohio. I didn't know why I was pulled here and questioned it many times over the years. There are actually many reasons I think I am meant to be here, but most important, is that I think it is a great place for my children! It is not perfect and I hope we can all come up with solutions to continue to keep it safe, but for me it is as close to perfect for what I want for my children as I have seen, and I have seen a lot of places.
Lakewood is the most "real" place I have every lived, with the good, the bad and the ugly. We actually wanted a newer house and more land but bought our second house here almost solely because of the schools and how well our teen was doing in the high school. No way was I going to move him to a community where looks, clothes, or your athletic ability would define who you are. No way would I bring him anywhere that could give him the message that he was not good enough as he is. The friends he has in Lakewood are genuine people. They truly love each other for who they are.
It did not strike me until last night, WHY it was so important to be here so I thank you for raising the question in my mind. For solidifying why I am here. I still believe everyone fits into Lakewood, all races, all fashion styles, whether you are an athlete or artist in school, there is a place for you. And as the deck exemplifies, there is a place for all of us here, with all of our different opinions, political beliefs, religious beliefs. The fact that we can discuss racism and look inside ourselves to see who we are is far more than I have ever seen in any other community. Just because others don't talk about it, does not mean it does not exist in their communities.
If you choose to raise your children in another community I wish you the best, but to do it under the premise that Lakewood is not safe enough to raise children is simply a perception, not the truth.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive" Dalai Lama
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Stephen Eisel
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:36 pm
To me, this has nothing to do with fear, black, white, classism, racism etc.. This is about setting the tone of the future of Lakewood. What do we as citizens want the city of Lakewood to become? What type of businesses and people do we want to attract to our city? As Gary as pointed out, we are in control and we all can set the tone.