Observer Content Discussion

[David Scott]

Am I the only one disturbed by the "let's post pictures and see who can get the first and best picture of the obvisously tortured individual" It seems a bit morbid to me. At least three families are suffering, but we can see their pain in pictures.

Or maybe I am the only one thinking that if the police did such a great job, and where there so quickly - why do we even thing of an additional levy.

And I am probably the only thinking, I feel bad for the guy - but if reports are correct he was engaged to another man's wife. Nor real cool in my book.

[Dave Sharosky]

Am I the only one disturbed by the "let's post pictures and see who can get the first and best picture of the obviously tortured individual" It seems a bit morbid to me. At least three families are suffering, but we can see their pain in pictures.

Or maybe I am the only one thinking that if the police did such a great job, and where there so quickly - why do we even thing of an additional levy.

And I am probably the only thinking, I feel bad for the guy - but if reports are correct he was engaged to another man's wife. Nor real cool in my book.

Mr. Scott,

As for the pictures being posted. It is a free country. Yes there are families that have been impacted directly by the situation. Again, it also affected a community in the fact it happened in a place where the public visits frequently and part of the situation took place on the streets of Lakewood. Through general curiosity, human nature and the media's obligation to report a story as accurate as possible, both parties will post pictures/video if the opportunity presents itself. It's up to their discretion for which will be posted. On that note, I don't know how I would react if it was a member of my family going through this.

For the police comment. The Lakewood Police did a great job reacting to the situation. The levy that everyone is debating and discussing is about helping the police become more proactive in stopping future disturbances.

As for the gentleman that was shot, it's sad. I never heard he was engaged. As for him living with a woman who is estranged from her husband.... that's a choice he made. Obviously, the situation between the parties has been going on for some time. Whether it's right or wrong of the choice he made, there's no justification for the choice the estranged husband made.

[David Lay]

Am I the only one disturbed by the "let's post pictures and see who can get the first and best picture of the obvisously tortured individual" It seems a bit morbid to me. At least three families are suffering, but we can see their pain in pictures.

Or maybe I am the only one thinking that if the police did such a great job, and where there so quickly - why do we even thing of an additional levy.

And I am probably the only thinking, I feel bad for the guy - but if reports are correct he was engaged to another man's wife. Nor real cool in my book.

It wasn't a matter of what you call "let's post pictures and see who can get the first and best picture of the obvisously tortured individual". As an LO photographer, I felt it as my duty to the victims, and the city to take the photos and post them.

Sometimes being a journalist (or photojournalist in my case) isn't about being popular. It's about telling the story as accurate as possible.

[Joe Ott]

Am I the only one disturbed by the "let's post pictures and see who can get the first ...

I posted so people in this community can see what happened in their back yard. I debated most of the afternoon and evening whether I should post them or not. I warned people some of the pictures may be disturbing to some. If you looked at them it was your choice. There were some I chose not to post.

Trying to post first? Please. Trust me, I have more important things to do than play that game. Dave and Ivor take excellent pictures. No point in that.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Mr.Scott,

part of reporting the news is actually reporting it. of the 8 photos that I have posted on the blogs there is one that I have up of the co-workers crying. I didn't use the photo without the girls permission, and they gave me permission to use it.

Joe Ott even called the LO gods to check if it was OK to post some photos of the coroners leaving the scene.

Dave waited until the next day to go up there, until everything cleared up.

News isn't always fuzzy bunnies and pretty flowers Mr.Scott. We as a newspaper decided to cover the event and take photos and report it as we saw it.

It's nothing different than the picture that the PD ran on the front page of the Metro section today of the victims sister bawling. Or the three news stations that interviewed the crying co-worker right as she walked up to the scene and heard what had happened.

[Dave Sharosky]

you can't protect yourself from crazy.

shootings like this and previous ones were random acts that were isolated incidents that no one thought would happen. regardless of how many police officers there are partoling the streets, it wouldn't have stopped or prevented this man from entering the mcdonalds.

it's isolated, unpredictable and rare. these aren't gang shootings or drive by's like in Cleveland where they are organized and predictable, this is a insane individual going over the edge.

Joe, Robert and I were talking about how I thought the deck will explode over the fact that if we had this police levy passed already, we'd be better off. That's far from the truth in this event. And even in the past isolated shootings and stand-offs, SWAT, LPD and EMS always handled it with care and minimized the collateral damage of the incident to just the house it occurred in.

Ivor,

In response to your last paragraph, yes the deck would have exploded. It could even explode or the event could be used as a leverage tool by some for a levy. Sometimes it's an individuals misunderstanding, lack of knowledge, tunnel vision or raw heightened emotion that would make them go either way in such a short amount of time.

And let me add.... I know McDonalds is a business and needs to be open so it can pay the bills. But, couldn't they have waited a day out of respect for families and workers? I found that bizarre.

[David Scott]

I'm sorry - I didn't realize we were all playing journalist and photographer. You all can think it is OK to salivate over the pictures you took and I can think that it is wrong and disrespectful.

And I don't see how a proactive police force could of stopped this short of closing the border and doing ID checks.

[David Lay]

I'm sorry - I didn't realize we were all playing journalist and photographer.

Hate to break it to you, Mr. Scott -- I have a BFA in Photography, so I take great offense at that statement. I do not 'play' journalist/photographer. I take my work for the LO very seriously, and I'm sure the rest of the writers/photographers do as well.

Just because the LO is a community paper and we are not paid 'journalists' does not make us any less of one.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I'm sorry - I didn't realize we were all playing journalist and photographer. You all can think it is OK to salivate over the pictures you took and I can think that it is wrong and disrespectful.

And I don't see how a proactive police force could of stopped this short of closing the border and doing ID checks.

David

The Lakewood Observer is the national leader in civic journalism. It is about empowering citizen to know more about a city and report more about a city. To date we have had over 3% of the population write for the paper.

We also have a group of photographers that I would put against any professional paper in the world. Ivor, David Lay, Rhonda, Joe Ott, Bryan, Lynn, Holly, Paul Tepley, myself and others.

They are volunteers getting out the images that go with the words. This time out of the box, the LO broke the news, domestic, captured. This is very important information for all citizens to know.

This is what the Lakewood Observer is all about.

As for this event, nothing would have stopped this event except crisis intervention months ago.

But that is no reason to turn a blind eye to what more police would do for this or any other city. You cannot depend on a reactive force anymore. We must get proactive and go back to making a name for he city that is clean and safe.

Without clean and safe our property values will fall, rents will fall, the bad property speculators move in, and the city spirals downward. I can show you hundreds of examples.

If you ever want to blame someone at the paper or in the LO Project please blame me. My people were just doing as they have been told to do. Report what you see as best as you can.

Also I miss your point. So you think murder is acceptable for a young man that dates a woman that is separated from her violent husband and filing for divorce?


FWIW

[dl meckes]

We certainly see the LPD involved in traffic stops, or talking to people around the city, but sometimes we forget just what policing can entail.

Jim O'Bryan's photos of the suspect, with the gun to his head, feet away from police officers, makes it very clear that these brave officers were in mortal danger. The officers involved were concerned that the suspect wanted them to shoot him (death by cop).

I think the images I've seen so far have conveyed a lot of information, whether or not I really want to see them.

[David Scott]

Mr Lay - sorry to upset you, but in my opinion this is a blog : not a real newspaper People come and post their opinion and if you want to submit an article based upon your opinion you are free to do so. I have never worked in a newspaper, but it seems they would have an editrorial board for each department debating what to print and how to place it. They don't typically have a bunch of people out taking pictures then posting it on the internet. And yes, if the newspaper prints questionable photos they will be publically questioned and have to defend it with facts and precedent, not opinion. If you are a real photographer get a thicker skin because you will be critisized.

[David Lay]

If you are a real photographer get a thicker skin because you will be critisized.

I have a pretty thick skin, but I become irritated with people that obviously have no idea what the LO is about, and jump to conclusions about what they 'think' is journalism.

If you would ever read the masthead in the LO you would know there is an Editorial Board. The LO basically functions (in my eyes) as a newspaper just like the MSM, but with an 'open' twist - anyone can write or submit photos. I would encourage you to submit a story or even a photograph or two.

Last time I checked, the information posted here regarding the McDonald's incident were FACTS culled from eyewitness reports and information from the LPD.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Mr.Scott,

words and photos are two very different, yet similar things.

The photographer can't convey a opinion with events like this especially when things unfold while on the scene.

I do hear where you are coming from, though.

In the end we all have to do our part in society, whatever our calling may be.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mr Scott.

This is not a blog. Far from it.

This is not a single post area for a lone person sitting in their basement to post. Blog definition "A frequent, chronological publication of a PERSON's personal thoughts and Web links." Beside the forum we have a full service business area, calendar of events, economic development package. Home to thirty other business sites, a newspaper and foundation. It is the 7th largest paper in Northern Ohio with a circulation of roughly 16,000 hard copy newspapers.

While you might want to belittle the people donating their time and efforts to the project you should be aware. More than one doctor writes, Lawyers, politicians, ex-police, professors, teachers, over 23 ex-newspaper people, and not just an editorial staff but and advisory board and soon a citizen advisory board.

We have put out al;most 60 editions on time, with a growing staff and more advertisers climbing on everyday.

The Lakewood Observer is leading project in the country in hyper local civic journalism, which many in the media see as the future of the paper business.

Paul Tepley, 35 years with the Cleveland Press, Gordon Brumm doctor from Havard, Ken Warren director of the library, poet and writer. Kathy South, Casey Ryan, PD and Sun Papers, David Lay photographer for the Scene, Michael Gill senior editor of the Free Times, and myself seven international silver quill awards for newspaper design.

We are not pretending, we are working and doing it better than anyone else.


.

[Ryan Salo]

To date we have had over 3% of the population write for the paper.

Jim,

I am not sure I understand this. 3% would be something like 1600 wouldn't it? Are you talking about the paper alone or are you including the blog? Thanks for clarifying.