New Curfew Law

[Kate McCarthy]

I have to be honest. I've been on vacation and have not read any of the recent posts...but while on vacation our daughters were making plans for the 4th of July and we realized that all their plans were potentially in violation of Lakewood's new curfew laws.

Will there be a lifting of the curfew for the Fourth of July or do we want to forever step on on the fun of being young and have our 13 year olds on some sort of leash while they try to have fun with their friends also attached to the leash of some hovering adult? Sounds like an incentive to head out of town.

Independence Day in Lakewood is a great safe time for young people to get together with their friends to enjoy the Lakewood Project and fireworks. Our relatives from Westlake come into town now that Crocker Park has co-opted that community's Fourth of July festivities.

We try to stay together as we head down to the park but there is a natural inclination for us all to break into our individual groups. I hate to think that our daughters...while breaking off to meet up with friends while planning to meet up with us later to walk home...could be potentially be hauled off as curfew violators.

Well (or ill) intentioned laws often have unintended consequences and as far as I can see, this law has many. I can't complain in that I didn't sit in on the readings, etc. but now that it's here, I think it will do more to make Lakewood a thug friendly place than not. Who will be around to counter the thugs? They are all at home because of curfew. Then thugs rule. The nice kids are off the street.

Yippee. Thugs win. My kids lose.

[Colleen Wing]

I think we should suspend all the laws on hugely special holidays -like the fireworks, I would hate to ruin your kids big fun.

All laws and rules can be abused.

Nothing good can come from kids wandering around after dark, no matter who there parents are.

The times and ages are quite logical to the average person.

[Grace O'Malley]

Nothing good can come from kids wandering around after dark, no matter who there parents are.

Really? I strongly disagree and find that statement Orwellian.


Why are we so afraid of kids?

If its crime. ADULTS are the major perpetrators of serious crime.

I say, keep EVERYONE off the streets after 9. Would that make you feel safer?

What business does anyone have out after dark?

[Gary Rice]

As a retired teacher, I believe that I well understand the concerns raised by both sides regarding the curfew issue.

It is a law that would seem to come into parental, cultural, and civil rights domains. Because of this, I would imagine that it will one day be quietly rescinded.

To me, that law just has too many difficulties with its implementation.

In the first place, I would only guess that some defense attorney for some late-night violator would cry "selective enforcement", using events like the 4th of July and the football games as examples.

Or they might argue- profiling.

And, in my opinion, at times, they might just be right.

A law, in order to be just, must be fairly applied to all, and must, at the last, be workable.

On the other hand, while we know that there are many good parents, I'm sure that we've all been in public situations where unsupervised young people have run wild; whether that would at a park, a shopping mall, or in some restaurant.

There are also "disturbing the peace", and "creating a public nuisance" types of laws out there now that, if applied, could address curfew violators, or social disruptors without the onus of "selective enforcement" or "profiling" issues hanging over the law.

More than football games, there are many evening youth meetings and service activities held during the week in Lakewood for Scouts, DeMolays, Church and other youth groups.

I suspect that there will always be a gentle tension between those who have to deal with disruptive young people, and those who advocate for greater freedoms.

As an educator, I can tell you from my own experience that the percentage of young people in a school building who disrupt, is generally a very small one, often measured in single digits, and often having virtually nothing to do with their style of dress, culture, background, or whatever.

It would seem that we need to take a good second look at this law.

[sharon kinsella]

[Nothing good can come from kids wandering around after dark, no matter who there parents are quote]

How do you define good - working to help pay your way - save for school -help your parents. How about babysitting so the single parent down the street can take a much needed breather.

How about studying with your friends to improve your grades. Coming home from the "Y" after an activity.

Why don't we just blame the kids for everything and sit smugly in our homes thinking we solved everything.

[Colleen Wing]

You let your kid walk home/work/the Y at 11:00pm?

[Jim O'Bryan]

You let your kid walk home/work/the Y at 11:00pm?

You don't?

Of course let's define "kids" again.


.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Keep everyone off the streets after 9?

first there's the smoking ban which cut the achillies of bars for a bit, now this. bars in lakewood would be crippled.

(i do support the smoking ban and curfew though)

I don't get what the big deal is here.
Know where your kids are, and if it's past their curfew, make sure they have a ride home before they even leave the house to go to that friends house.

It seems like whenever the government steps in and says "keep an eye out on your kids a bit more" or "try more parenting" there's an outrage.

"I don't need to parent my child! she's 10, she's old enough to make her own decisions!"

off to get my tooth pulled, peace.

[Colleen Wing]

It's dark at 9:00pm on the longest day.

You can walk anywhere in Lakewood in under half an hour.

Is it possible we wait to circle the wagons until AFTER we see if it helps some of the issues we are having?

Do we really believe that Council or the Police are getting their kicks harassing kids?


AMENDED CURFEW ORDINANCE NOW IN EFFECT
Pursuant to Section 509.12 of the Lakewood Codified Ordinances, children ages 14 and under are not permiteed on streets, sidewaks or any public property between the hours of 9:30 PM and 6:00 AM. Children age 15 are not permitted on streets, sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM. Children ages 16 and 17 are not permitted on streets sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM.

Children out during these restricted hours will be subject to citiation for curfew violation. Parents are also subject to be cited for allowing their children to be out during restricted times.

[Joe Ott]

You don't?
.

I don't allow my 15 year old daughter to walk home after dark let alone 11:00.

Even though somebody here said my fear is unreasonable (*cough*cough*gary*cough*) I fear for my daughters safety.

[Gary Rice]

Joe,

If, by chance, your reference is to me (above), I would invite you to please tell me where, exactly, I said anything in direct reference either to your parenting, or your opinions?

I simply did not presume to tell you anything about your fears, whether reasonable or not.

I know that we had a written discussion on this thread in general terms about what constitutes unreasonable fear, but that discussion had nothing whatsoever to do with the remark that I see posted above.

In fact, I believe that I would agree with you in that, were I a parent, I would want my son or daughter either to be with me, or with trusted friends, or adult leadership, when the sun goes down.

Complicating this general rule, there are a variety of activities that I am aware of, that might not end until 9:30pm. The DeMolay group, for example, is comprised of young men ages 12 1/2-21. At times, their meetings run late. Not having uniforms, as Scouts do, some of their members might run afoul of the new curfew law on the way home from the meeting.

This law, in my view, paints with far too broad a brush. In fact, as I understand the reading of it, I did not even see an exception written in, if the young person were accompanied by a parent, guardian, or youth leader!

I reiterate. I think this law needs a second look.

[Joe Ott]

Joe,

If, by chance, your reference is to me (above), I would invite you to please tell me where, exactly, I said anything in direct reference either to your parenting, or your opinions?

I simply did not presume to tell you anything about your fears, whether reasonable or not.

I've spoken off the record with several police officers, and those with whom I've spoken, agree; by no means is there a reason for unreasonable fear around here.

I did the same not too long ago. I got a different response.

Unreasonable fear? What's unreasonable. There's section 8 housing with what appears to be maybe thugs always hanging around, convicted rapists and convicted child molesters down the street so I wont' let my 15 year old walk by herself. Is that unreasonable fear? I don't want my 15 y.o. walking around downtown lkwd because an elderly women was beat up behind a bank, and man was robbed on Detroit near Alemeda blah blah blah. The list goes on. That's unreasonable fear? Please.

There is reason for fear. I don't know what unreasonable is though.

[sharon kinsella]

Colleen -

YES my kids worked many nites past 11:00 pm - they are grown now and know how to take care of themselves.

Violence also happens in the light - not just the dark.

This is the real world and if kids are not allowed to figure out how to navigate it while they are still at home and can receive guidance - how would you suggest that we prepare them for the real world. Lock them in the house?

Been there - done that - my kids are grown now and self-sufficient, confident and very well informed.

[Gary Rice]

Just so people are aware, in the quotation box attributed to me above, ONLY the parts in the small boxes are mine.

I stand by those words. I was not, and would not ever wish to get personal in a general discussion.

As for fear?

I was merely repeating what I'd heard informally from several officers. I did not invent the "unreasonable fear" quote, I was merely passing it along.

And I agree with it.

The stats, as I so far have seen, seem to support the thought that we are a long way from a crime wave.

[Katrina Holmes]

I just want to add to this discussion. I have a 16 year old daughter who was in an accident after 11 pm (not her fault). Frankly, she was more concerned about the curfew law then the police were. There was no mentioning of it at all to her. She did tell them that she was babysitting. I also think that the teenagers who are driving will probably not have many problems with the new time. Mainly because I think it works like the seat belt laws. As long as they are not driving recklessly they won't pull them over. Of course if the car is full of teenagers and they are hanging out the window that might be another story.