What is our "Gasoline Conscience" ?

[Mark Crnolatas]

Maybe this topic has been beat to a pulp, but within eye-sight distance from me, a neighbor just bought a huge full length bed, with cap, duelie, crew-cab, (6 seater) complete with all chrome and it's huge and super well appointed. It's great looking and God bless him for being able to afford to purchase it and gas it.

BUT.... With the headlines on Drudge, saying that this weekend will be a record breaker for people traveling, it sure seems that we Americans as a country do not give a 2nd thought to oil dependancy, to say the least.

I found this great site, and if I could, I'd build one of these myself, check it out, and it doesn't need a drop of gas.

Ok, so it's they might look a little geeky on Lakewood streets, but ithey kind of look cool to me.
http://www.americanspeedster.com/

[Joan Roberts]

I think you're right. We don't give a second thought to being "oil dependent"

At the same time, we also depend on China and other Asian countries for more and more of our consumer goods. Yet we don't talk about being "clothing dependent" or "consumer electronics dependent". And China or Malaysia could turn off the supply of winter coats or computer chips, too based on political motives. What then?

Yes, I know it's not the same thing with the same impact. But isn't it the same psychology? The product is available, and I make my decisions about if I buy or how much based on what I can afford.

On top of that, many have grown to become very skeptical of ANYONE'S claims about how much oil is left. Some would tell us the pumps will be dry in 20 years (huge deal). Others say we can go for another century (let the great-granchildren figure it out). Both environmental hand-wringers and oil industry pimps will game the numbers to fit their own arguments. Faced with the conflicting data, the layperson tunes out.

In the 70s, we didn't just have rising prices, we had SHORTAGES. Big difference. That caught people's attention. Since then. the price of a cup of coffee has gone up many times more than a gallon of gasoline. And the pumps for both keep flowing.

See my point?

[DougHuntingdon]

Interesting link

The gas prices have gotten people angry, but I can't say I personally know of one person who has changed their lifestyle.

Doug

[ryan costa]

Gasoline Consciousness: Unconciousness.

consumer goods are mostly durable. If the third world labor supply were cut off we have enough to last for years. by that point it would be easy enough to make more: cotton is cheap. Wool is easy enough to produce. the production methods are not very capital intensive. The fashion cycles would stop getting shorter: they'd get longer. The celebrity endorsement checks would get less ridiculous, the world of Superstar designers would become less ridiculous.

My grandparents have had their refrigerator for decades. it works perfectly last I checked.


Most domesticly consumed goods were produced here until the late 1960s. The more a developed nation outsources consumer goods production to third world labor markets, the more it channels this new affluence into fossil fuel gluttony: The third world will not be following the U.S. model of growth, or even the Japanese model of growth. At least not to the results demonstrated here and there. We'll have to produce new textbooks...

[Lynn Farris]

You know, the car we had when we were first married 28 years ago was a diesel rabbit that got 50 miles to the gallon. Then administrations changed and diesels were forgotten as was solar power, wind power and all other forms of renewable energy. I'm not preaching - we have an SUV that isn't great on gas - and we haven't run out and gotten a new car - but to be honest - there isn't much out there that I would want to buy. Hybrids while they sound good have batteries that are so toxic, we are sending them to Africa to bury. The diesels that are out aren't getting good gas mileage and even the mini coops aren't getting as good of gas mileage as the Rabbit we had.

We have an oil man in the White House we are not going to get any leadership on this issue, until we have someone that understands the problems in there.

There is a supply and demand issue. Car companies aren't coming up with better solutions because we aren't demanding them - but there is nothing there for people that really want something.

Bio diesel is interesting - but in my opinion it is too much work to do it on your own. I don't want to have to find a restaurant and strain their oil every time I want to go somewhere.

They need to design a car that will:

1) Be cool looking
2) Has good mileage
3) Readily available fuel - water, diesel, electric
4) Batteries that aren't toxic.

[ryan costa]

Bio diesel is interesting - but in my opinion it is too much work to do it on your own. I don't want to have to find a restaurant and strain their oil every time I want to go somewhere.

They need to design a car that will:

1) Be cool looking
2) Has good mileage
3) Readily available fuel - water, diesel, electric
4) Batteries that aren't toxic.

Unfortunately that is impossible.

Restaurants go through a few dozen gallons of cooking oil a day. Gas stations go through thousands. biodiesel is only practical when barely anyone else is doing it. 15 percent of the nations corn is used to produce Ethanol amounting to 2 percent of the combustible fuel we use. That means 100 percent of our corn can produce 13.6 of the fuel we use.

[Tim Liston]

I love oil threads, they get me all riled up….

Mark as for your neighbor and his new toy, it depends on what your definition of “affordâ€Â

[Joan Roberts]

But the answer is conservation. And what most on this and the other threads are pointing out is the massive reluctance to conserve. Which is why we need a big gas tax. Anyone who opts for any other solution is someone who just wants a workaround that leaves THEM financially unscathed. Especially here in Lakewood, a big, nationwide gas tax would be the best thing that could ever happen. The empty storefronts would fill in weeks. We'd adjust.....

I may be difficult, too. But a massive gas tax would be a major nail in Lakewood's coffin.

The extra $1200-$1500 a Brecksville lawyer would pay to drive to Cleveland every day wouldn't make a dent in his six-figure income. And it's almost delusional to think for a moment a Brecksville lawyer is going to move back to Lakewood to save $1500 a year, or even double that. They're paying a bigger premium than that to live out there in the first place. Another few grand a year won't make a bit of difference.

The crises of 1973 and 1979 got people to give up the big behemoths for smaller cars. But it didn't slow the exodus tp the suburbs at all, and that was when people still worked in downtown areas. That laywer is never coming back to Lakewood, even if gas is $15 a gallon.

But it would cripple that average $40K Lakewood resident, along with all the businesses that cater to that resident. The dollars that go into your Punsih the Guzzlers Fund doesn't go into Mr. Crino's cash register. $3 gas has hurt WalMart a lot more than Neiman-Marcus...or even Target.

The opening post in that thread proves it. The guy with the bucks just doesn't care. The guy (or woman) on the bottom gets squeezed, and Lakewood is closer to the bottom than the top.

No one would ever advocate doubling the tax on milk, largely because it would disproportionately hurt those least likely to afford it. Why is it so morally acceptable to disproportionately screw the working class on oil?

And your post makes my point better than I did. If conservation, as opposed to research and alternate fuels, is the only answer, then what's the difference if we're talking 20, 50, or 100 years? Conservation alone only slows an inevitable process that won't be completed until we (and possibly our children) are long gone.

Whether the oil runs out in 2025 without conservation or 2075 with it is, I would imagine, a discussion akin to angels dancing on the head of a pin for most people. Particularly since 'experts' can't, or won't, agree on what the situation really is.

I think you seem like a good and smart person, too, but you seem to not have learned that most people respond more to reward than punishment, or that the government has never been able to tax anything out of existence. Build a car that looks good that can SAVE that Brecksville lawyer $1500 a year, and you may be on to something.

[Danielle Masters]

The diesels that are out aren't getting good gas mileage

Lynn, we decided a couple of months ago to get a new car because my husband drives 500-600 miles a week and honestly gas prices were killing us. We needed something that was large enough to fit a lot of tools or a few children if needed. The hybrids didn't fit our needs. My parents bought a Jetta TDI last year and they loved it. We decided to do the same. Our diesel is averaging 45 mpg gallon. So no its not getting 50 mpg as the old Rabbits did, but hey 45 mpg is a heck of a lot better than the 25 mpg he was getting in the old car.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Why couldn't Lakewood be a model for it's citizens BEING gas consumption aware? (at least a good size crew of us). We could if we put our collective heads together.