Cleveland Magazine has issued its rating the suburbs issue. At one time Lakewood was one of the top ten, now it is not even in the top 20.
Is this too delicate a subject to discuss?
Rating the Suburbs - Is It Relevant to the Mayoral Election?
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Bill Call
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Shawn Juris
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Rick Uldricks
Re: Rating the Suburbs - Is It Relevant to the Mayoral Elect
I think this is a subject relevant to the Mayoral Election. Lakewood should always be in the top 10 -- why aren't we there?Bill Call wrote:Cleveland Magazine has issued its rating the suburbs issue. At one time Lakewood was one of the top ten, now it is not even in the top 20.
Is this too delicate a subject to discuss?
Cleveland Magazine's Website only lists the top 5 http://www.clevelandmagazine.com/suburbs
Where does Lakewood rank this year?
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David Anderson
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Here's the top 20 list according to Newsnet5.com.
1. Solon
2. Moreland Hills
3. Mayfield Village
4. Avon Lake
5. Twinsburg
6. Pepper Pike
7. Highland Heights
8. Orange Village
9. Brecksville
10. Independence
11. Chardon
12. Chester Township
13. Aurora
14. Avon
15. Kirtland
16. Beachwood
17. Concord Township
18. Rocky River
19. Westlake
20. Chagrin Falls
1. Solon
2. Moreland Hills
3. Mayfield Village
4. Avon Lake
5. Twinsburg
6. Pepper Pike
7. Highland Heights
8. Orange Village
9. Brecksville
10. Independence
11. Chardon
12. Chester Township
13. Aurora
14. Avon
15. Kirtland
16. Beachwood
17. Concord Township
18. Rocky River
19. Westlake
20. Chagrin Falls
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Jay Foran
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- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
What a joke! Don't go for the head fake.
This isn't even worth the time to rationalize.
Ever seen a community as a repeat winner? Why not? Is it possible for the previous year winner to screw things up so bad within a 12 month span that they lose their grasp as the number one community? Apparently so...since it has happened every year since the inception of this award.
I'll bet my last dollar that the winning community buys a disproportinate number of copies. Can't lose that spike in sales that a new winning community brings.
Westlake and Rocky River were recent year winners. Now they are 18th and 19th? Oooops. Serious crime is up 100% as murders went from 1 to 2. Only appropriate that their rating should plummet.
If I remember correctly didn't Scene or the Free Times rate Lakewood exceptionally high last year?
This isn't even worth the time to rationalize.
Ever seen a community as a repeat winner? Why not? Is it possible for the previous year winner to screw things up so bad within a 12 month span that they lose their grasp as the number one community? Apparently so...since it has happened every year since the inception of this award.
I'll bet my last dollar that the winning community buys a disproportinate number of copies. Can't lose that spike in sales that a new winning community brings.
Westlake and Rocky River were recent year winners. Now they are 18th and 19th? Oooops. Serious crime is up 100% as murders went from 1 to 2. Only appropriate that their rating should plummet.
If I remember correctly didn't Scene or the Free Times rate Lakewood exceptionally high last year?
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Bret Callentine
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I agree, but only in the sense that I would drastically oppose any candidate that even considered this list to be anything more than a junior high level popularity contest.I think this is a subject relevant to the Mayoral Election.
Anyone who puts a list like that together obviously does not value ANY of the same characteristics as the predominant number of people who CHOOSE to live in Lakewood.
If you don't like neighbors, if you like to drive to everything, if you only feel comfortable with people of the same geopolitical, social and ethnic background, then any of the communities on that list are perfect for you.
If you like to walk to the store, bar, church, if you like having neighbors close, if you want a big house but not a big yard, if you like century homes and don't fear minorities, then Lakewood might be for you.
If you look at the criteria used to determine which burb is best, you'll find that it essentially turns into a list of areas LEAST LIKE LAKEWOOD.
Keep your list, I'll take Lakewood thank you.
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David Anderson
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Jay -
I chuckled at your contention that Rocky River's and Westlake's precipitous drop in rankings is in tandem with their drop in Cleveland Magazine subscriptions.
Taking your theory further, it appears that subscriptions are lagging for most of the west side (Bay Village, Berea, Fairview Park, North Olmsted, North Royalton, Olmsted Falls). I only see four true west side communities listed among the top 20 (Avon Lake, Avon, Rocky River, Westlake).
I chuckled at your contention that Rocky River's and Westlake's precipitous drop in rankings is in tandem with their drop in Cleveland Magazine subscriptions.
Taking your theory further, it appears that subscriptions are lagging for most of the west side (Bay Village, Berea, Fairview Park, North Olmsted, North Royalton, Olmsted Falls). I only see four true west side communities listed among the top 20 (Avon Lake, Avon, Rocky River, Westlake).
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Paul Schrimpf
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[quote="David Anderson"]Jay -
I chuckled at your contention that Rocky River's and Westlake's precipitous drop in rankings is in tandem with their drop in Cleveland Magazine subscriptions. [quote]
If you are going to accuse them of anything, accuse them of pandering to potential businesses buying ads. That's where the real money is, not subscriptions. (think "Congratulations" ads from Solon-based businesses). I'm sure there is a legitimate formula, but content in these city pubs is driven to a larger extent by where the ad revenue is coming from than your typical consumer pub.
I chuckled at your contention that Rocky River's and Westlake's precipitous drop in rankings is in tandem with their drop in Cleveland Magazine subscriptions. [quote]
If you are going to accuse them of anything, accuse them of pandering to potential businesses buying ads. That's where the real money is, not subscriptions. (think "Congratulations" ads from Solon-based businesses). I'm sure there is a legitimate formula, but content in these city pubs is driven to a larger extent by where the ad revenue is coming from than your typical consumer pub.
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michael gill
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- Location: lakewood
It's all about your criteria
These stories from the Free Times discuss criteria, like gain on investment, architecture, convenience of location, etc.
See: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/9/your-move
and: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/9/keeping-score
See: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/9/your-move
and: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/13/9/keeping-score
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Shawn Juris
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Jeff Endress
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Shawn
Yeah...back to the tax RATES. Of course that's the easy way to sell the story. Wouldn't want to do some actual work and talk about the actual cost of housing. That might take some work.
I wonder why so many of the suburbs mentioned in the "study" are actually either suburbs of Akron or Lorain? Hmmm.
Jeff
Yeah...back to the tax RATES. Of course that's the easy way to sell the story. Wouldn't want to do some actual work and talk about the actual cost of housing. That might take some work.
I wonder why so many of the suburbs mentioned in the "study" are actually either suburbs of Akron or Lorain? Hmmm.
Jeff
To wander this country and this world looking for the best barbecue â€â€
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dl meckes
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Kenneth Warren
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Bill:
I don’t think the ratings have any particular relevance to the mayoral race. The categories for evaluation are largely beyond the Mayor’s direct control. Those within his control – total community services – give Lakewood a respectable score of 13, the same as Rocky River, Westlake, and Pepper Pike.
As long as the safety statistics are being properly reported by the Police Department, I don’t think the Mayor’s Office can be faulted to any significant degree for a safety ranking, which seems more a matter of class, poverty and proximity to the urban core than anything else. These are, in effect, the drivers of the rating system – the driver of the political economy of housing and the “secession of the successful,†fleeing from the caseload, costs and complexities of communities with diverse classes and races.
Lakewood’s score of 61 on safety is certainly a cause for concern. Parma ranked 62. Whether or not the recently passed police levy in Parma, with the increased manpower purchased, will have an impact on its rating over the next five years will be something to watch. On safety, Lakewood hangs slightly below Brook Park (57) University Heights (58), Mayfield Village (59), Wickliffe (60), and above Shaker Heights (63).
Cuyahoga Falls, a Summit County inner ring with relatively low tax rates due to some industry and a blue collar population sometimes compared to a strand in Lakewood scored (69) on safety.
On safety it seems that once a population grows to more than 20,000 the suburb will not rank in the top ten for safety.
The small sized population seems also to contain the ingredients to a successful ranking. As Westlake grows in population, and the smaller, fresher exurban burbs are brought into the rankings, its rating drops. It will be interesting to see how large Solon’s population can grow before it begins its descent from the mountain.
As a population grows the cost of servicing the mass raises the tax rates, pushing successful residents with no particular sense of social obligation to a community, place or tradition to move to smaller hamlets.
These are neither mysteries nor conspiracies. Serving a population of 50K plus, and all the variety that spills from a robust socio-economic mix, Lakewood’s mayor cannot be held responsible for the rating in Cleveland Magazine.
Shawn, your take on Lakewood’s comparative disadvantages in these ratings suggests to me that you will not find happiness in a city with a population of 50K. If you can afford to buy a house for $310,000 in Solon, with a property tax of only $1,890 per $100,000, or for $255,000 in Mayfield Village, with a property tax of $1,640 per $100,000, or even Avon Lake at $266,300, with a property tax of $1,730 per $100,000, you should do it.
Chardon, if you can handle the snow, for $199,500 and a property tax of $1,570 per $100,000 might be your best bargain.
I know you are working hard to make Lakewood a better place and dreaming harder that its value proposition can be transformed along the lines of these smaller, more affluent suburbs. However, the value proposition and the socio-economic situation of a city with a 50K or even 40 K population are never going to satisfy you.
Life is too short to persist in frustration, in second guessing the sincerity and veracity of responses to your post on the LO Deck, and always feeling skizzled about the costs paid to dwell in a place.
Kenneth Warren
I don’t think the ratings have any particular relevance to the mayoral race. The categories for evaluation are largely beyond the Mayor’s direct control. Those within his control – total community services – give Lakewood a respectable score of 13, the same as Rocky River, Westlake, and Pepper Pike.
As long as the safety statistics are being properly reported by the Police Department, I don’t think the Mayor’s Office can be faulted to any significant degree for a safety ranking, which seems more a matter of class, poverty and proximity to the urban core than anything else. These are, in effect, the drivers of the rating system – the driver of the political economy of housing and the “secession of the successful,†fleeing from the caseload, costs and complexities of communities with diverse classes and races.
Lakewood’s score of 61 on safety is certainly a cause for concern. Parma ranked 62. Whether or not the recently passed police levy in Parma, with the increased manpower purchased, will have an impact on its rating over the next five years will be something to watch. On safety, Lakewood hangs slightly below Brook Park (57) University Heights (58), Mayfield Village (59), Wickliffe (60), and above Shaker Heights (63).
Cuyahoga Falls, a Summit County inner ring with relatively low tax rates due to some industry and a blue collar population sometimes compared to a strand in Lakewood scored (69) on safety.
On safety it seems that once a population grows to more than 20,000 the suburb will not rank in the top ten for safety.
The small sized population seems also to contain the ingredients to a successful ranking. As Westlake grows in population, and the smaller, fresher exurban burbs are brought into the rankings, its rating drops. It will be interesting to see how large Solon’s population can grow before it begins its descent from the mountain.
As a population grows the cost of servicing the mass raises the tax rates, pushing successful residents with no particular sense of social obligation to a community, place or tradition to move to smaller hamlets.
These are neither mysteries nor conspiracies. Serving a population of 50K plus, and all the variety that spills from a robust socio-economic mix, Lakewood’s mayor cannot be held responsible for the rating in Cleveland Magazine.
Shawn, your take on Lakewood’s comparative disadvantages in these ratings suggests to me that you will not find happiness in a city with a population of 50K. If you can afford to buy a house for $310,000 in Solon, with a property tax of only $1,890 per $100,000, or for $255,000 in Mayfield Village, with a property tax of $1,640 per $100,000, or even Avon Lake at $266,300, with a property tax of $1,730 per $100,000, you should do it.
Chardon, if you can handle the snow, for $199,500 and a property tax of $1,570 per $100,000 might be your best bargain.
I know you are working hard to make Lakewood a better place and dreaming harder that its value proposition can be transformed along the lines of these smaller, more affluent suburbs. However, the value proposition and the socio-economic situation of a city with a 50K or even 40 K population are never going to satisfy you.
Life is too short to persist in frustration, in second guessing the sincerity and veracity of responses to your post on the LO Deck, and always feeling skizzled about the costs paid to dwell in a place.
Kenneth Warren
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Shawn Juris
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c. dawson
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And so why do we care what Cleveland Magazine thinks? It's like the US News and World Reports ratings that come out every year for colleges, hospitals, etc. It gets people the chance to thump their chests and say, "We're #1!!!" ... according to one magazine's imperfect ratings.
So why care about what Cleveland Magazine thinks? Their "top suburbs" are all outer-ring, mostly affluent suburbs. And not exactly racially diverse or economically diverse, either. And while it'll make the folks in those outer-ring surburbs with their hourlong commutes feel better about themselves, they don't realize the price they're ultimately paying as their communities start sliding down the list over time.
Because they will ... as they attract more people, their population will swell, their cities will be unable to provide the services they desire without tax increases, and problems will grow. Look at the newspaper ... the other day there was a story about how Strongsville schools are hurting because levies have not been passed, so they're trying again, with the threat of cutting bus service, laying off teachers, and making students pay for after-school activities ... this from a suburb that was once near the top of Cleveland Magazine's list!
I'm from the far east side, and Chardon used to be a delightful village, seemingly out of a Norman Rockwell print. "Used to be" is the key phrase, because every yuppie on the East Side fleeing farther east to escape racial issues (heaven forbid, there are Negroes living in Mentor!!!!) has moved to Chardon. And so has Wal-Mart. And Home Depot. And tons of bad chain restaurants. And excessive traffic. The village is now a city ... and still growing. And the quality of life is going downhill because of sprawl. Concord Township is the same way ... once quiet, it's now a hotspot of development, as McMansion after McMansion is being thrown up, strip shopping centers are being developed, and traffic dramatically increasing. And of course, there are NO schools in Concord Township, because they send their kids to Mentor or Painesville schools ... how soon before the population increases to the point where they need schools, and have to dramatically increase their taxes to pay for it?
And people will continue to flee farther and farther out ... in a few years, Sheffield Lake will be on the list ... pretty soon Vermilion, and maybe even Berlin Heights in Erie County as the concept of "suburbs" gets thinner and thinner.
But is their quality of life going to be any better? Yes, they have the huge homes (because a family of 3.2 NEEDS 8,000 square feet, doesn't it???) and the huge lots, and the pleasant commute (woo-hoo, nothing like driving 45 minutes to an hour each way when gas is $3.50 or higher!), but is it ultimately better???? And can Cleveland Magazine truly measure that?
I grew up in the outer ring ... I grew up in a city that was formerly at the top of the list (Mentor) ... and frankly, you couldn't pay me to live there again. I love living in a city that does NOT have traffic jams all the time (ever try to drive down Mayfield Road? It'll take you 45 minutes to go 10 miles), I love being able to sit on my porch (McMansions don't have porches, except for the occasional "decorative porch" that's actually too shallow to sit in, it's only there to look like a porch), walk to a locally-owned store, walk to an independent restaurant where they care about making their customers happy, and have a nice short commute to work, saving me gas costs, and reducing my environmental impact.
That can't be measured by Cleveland Magazine. Let the fleeing fools continue to read the magazine and uproot to move farther east, west, or south. They're not the kind of folk I'd want to live with anyway. The people who care are the people who stay, and make Lakewood and the other inner-ring suburbs great places to live.
I don't even know why they call it Cleveland Magazine ... they should just call it "Suburb Magazine."
So why care about what Cleveland Magazine thinks? Their "top suburbs" are all outer-ring, mostly affluent suburbs. And not exactly racially diverse or economically diverse, either. And while it'll make the folks in those outer-ring surburbs with their hourlong commutes feel better about themselves, they don't realize the price they're ultimately paying as their communities start sliding down the list over time.
Because they will ... as they attract more people, their population will swell, their cities will be unable to provide the services they desire without tax increases, and problems will grow. Look at the newspaper ... the other day there was a story about how Strongsville schools are hurting because levies have not been passed, so they're trying again, with the threat of cutting bus service, laying off teachers, and making students pay for after-school activities ... this from a suburb that was once near the top of Cleveland Magazine's list!
I'm from the far east side, and Chardon used to be a delightful village, seemingly out of a Norman Rockwell print. "Used to be" is the key phrase, because every yuppie on the East Side fleeing farther east to escape racial issues (heaven forbid, there are Negroes living in Mentor!!!!) has moved to Chardon. And so has Wal-Mart. And Home Depot. And tons of bad chain restaurants. And excessive traffic. The village is now a city ... and still growing. And the quality of life is going downhill because of sprawl. Concord Township is the same way ... once quiet, it's now a hotspot of development, as McMansion after McMansion is being thrown up, strip shopping centers are being developed, and traffic dramatically increasing. And of course, there are NO schools in Concord Township, because they send their kids to Mentor or Painesville schools ... how soon before the population increases to the point where they need schools, and have to dramatically increase their taxes to pay for it?
And people will continue to flee farther and farther out ... in a few years, Sheffield Lake will be on the list ... pretty soon Vermilion, and maybe even Berlin Heights in Erie County as the concept of "suburbs" gets thinner and thinner.
But is their quality of life going to be any better? Yes, they have the huge homes (because a family of 3.2 NEEDS 8,000 square feet, doesn't it???) and the huge lots, and the pleasant commute (woo-hoo, nothing like driving 45 minutes to an hour each way when gas is $3.50 or higher!), but is it ultimately better???? And can Cleveland Magazine truly measure that?
I grew up in the outer ring ... I grew up in a city that was formerly at the top of the list (Mentor) ... and frankly, you couldn't pay me to live there again. I love living in a city that does NOT have traffic jams all the time (ever try to drive down Mayfield Road? It'll take you 45 minutes to go 10 miles), I love being able to sit on my porch (McMansions don't have porches, except for the occasional "decorative porch" that's actually too shallow to sit in, it's only there to look like a porch), walk to a locally-owned store, walk to an independent restaurant where they care about making their customers happy, and have a nice short commute to work, saving me gas costs, and reducing my environmental impact.
That can't be measured by Cleveland Magazine. Let the fleeing fools continue to read the magazine and uproot to move farther east, west, or south. They're not the kind of folk I'd want to live with anyway. The people who care are the people who stay, and make Lakewood and the other inner-ring suburbs great places to live.
I don't even know why they call it Cleveland Magazine ... they should just call it "Suburb Magazine."