Mayoral Debates

[Suzanne Metelko]

Jim, I don't know where to start - which might have been your goal.

Gang mentality? Blood in the streets? Are you JOKING?

We're talking about a monthly debate on one issue. How does that shortchange anyone or inflict undue pain on any candidate? Better a public exchange than a take home test from the LO.

Suzanne

Why the attack on the LO for a questionaire you have no idea
what is asks?

All the candidates seem willing.
.

Jim,

From the man who cried "gang mentality/blood in the streets" you think my comment "take home test" is an attack?

My point is and has been that the citizens of Lakewood deserve a public debate on the issues. I know that two candidates are up for that. We're waiting for number 3.

If the candidates wish to participate in other ways so be it but MY opinion is that the community gets shortchanged by not seeing all three in person, discussing the issues and their ideas.

The League and Lakewood Alive have been approached casually and so has the LO. Between the three of you I would hope that we can get this pulled together, but I'm not naive enough to believe that politics won't play a role in the success of this effort.

The LO has carved out an important and necessary role in this community's quality of life. This next election will test the LO in ways that up until now have been largely unchallenged.

Suzanne

[Jim O'Bryan]

My point is and has been that the citizens of Lakewood deserve a public debate on the issues. I know that two candidates are up for that. We're waiting for number 3.

Why wait? Aren't Ed and Ryan different enough in platforms to get going? Wouldn't it be a great example to stage three debates right now between Ryan and Ed? Lead by example? Set the tone for the other debates.

If the candidates wish to participate in other ways so be it but MY opinion is that the community gets shortchanged by not seeing all three in person, discussing the issues and their ideas.

"MY opinion"

The League and Lakewood Alive have been approached casually and so has the LO. Between the three of you I would hope that we can get this pulled together, but I'm not naive enough to believe that politics won't play a role in the success of this effort.

I have this feeling politics will sneak into this election too!

We have been looking forward to this election, we have some pretty good ideas. We thought it would be only proper to wait until after the School Bond Issue, to talk about the fall election. I could tell by the signs for mayor, that not all felt Issue 4 was that important.

We have our coverage ramping up, and I would encourage you to start your debate schedule. Count us in.

The LO has carved out an important and necessary role in this community's quality of life. This next election will test the LO in ways that up until now have been largely unchallenged.

Suzanne, I missed you at the LO Advisory Board meetings on how to handle politics. But we are ready for whatever gets thrown our way. Largely unchallenged?! You want to give me a hint?


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[Tim Carroll]

As a former candidate for office here in Lakewood, I would like to offer my opinion on the "white paper" vs open debate question.

To me this is equivalent to the old lite beer commercial about less filling or taste great.

Ladies & Gentleman what we have here is a very large job interview, at least that is how I approached things in 2005.

Now, when we apply for job what is the first thing we do, we submit an application or send a resume, then we hope for interview.

With the questionnaire, I took two approaches to it.

First, if I already knew that there was not going to be an interview (for example the Plain Dealer), I tended to give the boilerplate answers to the questions. For the questionnaire that had a follow up interview, I tended to give some pat answers, but like a resume I tried to get something in or leave something out to be asked at the interview. I felt much more comfortable about defending or advocating a position, because I felt the interviewers were at least paying attention to what I wrote.

As for the debate only situation, tendency is to give the stump speech perhaps with a flourish because you are hearing what the opponent is saying or not saying. Yes, you are getting a test of the Candidate's ability to think on their feet, but in the long run unless someone videotapes the message, very few people will remember everything a Candidate says at a debate when they are standing at the voting machine.

I go back to my message of earlier, it is simplistic one, but we the citizens of Lakewood are trying hire someone for a job, I am not going to hire someone based on just writing samples or just a 30 minute discussion I want both.

How do you want to handle the hiring procedures?

[Kenneth Warren]

While I see the emphasis and interest in debate as particular mode of contest, spectacle and scripted political theatre, I would not underestimate the value of white papers produced by candidates, their handlers or their paid minions.

More than tongue flapping at a moderated debate and the impression of a winner or loser, the white paper, especially when subjected to critical dialogue and pressure on the LO Deck, will advance important levers in the political process .

The white paper should not be “liteâ€Â￾ but heavy.

Critical thinking, intentionality, the debate itself and the formation of effective solutions through citizen engagement that goes beyond hot button message positioning are part of the heavy action.

While some say the community deserves a moderated debate; I believe the community deserves even more at this critical moment of history.

In this regard, it is not fair to diminish the values of either the white paper or the “take-home exam.â€Â￾

I would argue contra Jeff’s point about the take home exam and recourse to notes, that given the challenges facing the city on the quality of life and safety fronts alone, that voters will benefit from candidates who have managed to assemble a sheaf of notes relevant to the questions posed on the take home exam. I would see that as evidence of prep work and a capacity for planning.

If any candidate and handler team is serious about engaging citizens beyond hot buttons that resonate based on polling and, more than that, harnessing critical faculties through the disruptive power of the LO Deck and paper, then the white paper is an important tool that should be written and not read.

A white paper would: 1) Identify Driving Factors; 2) State the Problem; 3) Provide a Historical Overview; 4) Propose a Solution to the Problem; 5) Outline Benefits.

These elements would establish, in a formal sense, the critical thinking and problem-solving skills of a candidate and handlers, while clarifying intentions and directions a regime might undertake.

To do such work properly is anything but “lite.â€Â￾

Kenneth Warren

[Jim O'Bryan]

To do such work properly is anything but ?lite.?

Kenneth Warren

Ken

I think this thread alone tells an interesting tale.

We have some that understand that the job of mayor is not sound bites, but teams that can be put together, and work together. That the executive of the city needs to take time, look, understand then act on the problem or dream.

What has always bothered me about debates is that it becomes cheap, with candidates taking shots at each other, and looking for that "soundbite"/blood that will carry them through to the end.

Last week I was speaking with Ryan Patrick Demro, he saw no problem with the project we are starting. He also mentioned that Ed and he were having debates every month leading to the election. I told him we would cover them, but we can do even better. To that end I have been speaking with Ed, Ryan and Mayor Tom George about how we can best serve the city this cycle. All seem to think we have a good handle on our plan. I can promise we have some tough questions for all that matter more to this city.

Councilman Demro mentioned that his platform was online at his website, and I asked why they are not online also at the Observer? (42,000 unique ip addresses every month)

I am not against debates, no one working at the paper is. Everyone here is about empowerment of civic groups. As mentioned we are willing to cover any and all debates. So get them going. It would seem like Ed and Ryan have been working very closely on many things, let's see the debate.

One thing I would like to see in writing is that Ed, Ryan and Tom stay committed to the run for mayor past July 31. That seems like an easy request to start off with. Why have anyone at a debate that is not going to be around for the real run for mayor?


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[Suzanne Metelko]

[quote="Jim O'Bryan
Suzanne, I missed you at the LO Advisory Board meetings on how to handle politics. But we are ready for whatever gets thrown our way. Largely unchallenged?! You want to give me a hint?
[/quote]

Jim,

I'm not sure I ever received an invitiation to the inner sanctum but if that's the Thursday night group, I've been in school for the past three years. I don't show up just to be seen, I actually want to participate and lend a hand. So if I wasn't there, it wasn't because I haven't been engaged or supportive. From now on, I'll have Steve clock in for me.

In the meantime, it's clear that we have one candidate that is unwilling to appear in public. I'm sure the community is clear why.

Suzanne

[Jim O'Bryan]

[quote="Jim O'Bryan
Suzanne, I missed you at the LO Advisory Board meetings on how to handle politics. But we are ready for whatever gets thrown our way. Largely unchallenged?! You want to give me a hint?

Jim,

I'm not sure I ever received an invitiation to the inner sanctum but if that's the Thursday night group, I've been in school for the past three years. I don't show up just to be seen, I actually want to participate and lend a hand. So if I wasn't there, it wasn't because I haven't been engaged or supportive. From now on, I'll have Steve clock in for me.

In the meantime, it's clear that we have one candidate that is unwilling to appear in public. I'm sure the community is clear why.

Suzanne[/quote]


Suzanne

Inner Sanctum?! You must have us confused with the Chamber, LakewoodAlive, The School Board, or other co called civic grroups that have secret or closed meetings. Not us, no inner sanctum. It is not just Thursdays, it is any day you want. There is no more open group in Lakewood, let me assure you. You know that to be true.

I am very thankful for your support, and you have been one of our strongest supporters since day one.

This is not a faux gig, you cannot have anyone clock in for you. You also seem to have no problem working the back channels of the Advisory Board as we all get many phone calls from you. Steve, to Heidi to Ken to Me. We all respect your input and opinions, but prefer it this way in the light of day.

Again, let me assure you, we have a plan, we are on target and schedule. We have pledge coverage of any other group offering information. We have pledge coverage to any candidate that asks for it. We have even made many FREE items available to any and ALL candidates that need them to level the playing field. to date only Tom Bullock has accepted the 100% open online presence the Observer offers all. I applaud him for that. He has pledge his campaign is open 100% of the time, not just when it suits his campaign.

If you would like to help fine tune many of the things we have going, please stop by. While all of us are proud of your continuing education(you know that it is heartfelt from our conversations), you cannot expect the LO and or the Advisory Board to wait or standstill.

Our program is pro-voter, pro-information, pro-coverage and ANTI attack Lakewood.


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[Suzanne Metelko]

I'm not going to have a middle school fight with you.

Bottom line - We have three candidates for Mayor. One prefers to use others to do his work for him.

My advice to Councilpersons Fitzgerald and Demro is to disengage from any forum that the mayor doesn't value enough to participate personally.

As for the school board, Secret Meetings? Ed Favre would be happy to cite you the law on that one. Pretty serious allegation if you ask me.

[Suzanne Metelko]

It is not just Thursdays, it is any day you want.

So, I should just hang around the office waiting until everyone shows up and then....? I'd have better luck going to a hockey game and waiting for a fight to break out.

[dl meckes]

I'm assuming that there is some sort of ad hoc gathering at Bela Dubby on Thursdays which may or may not include Observers and or advisors.

[stephen davis]

I'm assuming that there is some sort of ad hoc gathering at Bela Dubby on Thursdays which may or may not include Observers and or advisors.

...and I thought it was Saturdays. Maybe that's why I've never been to an Advisory Board meeting.

I'm usually pretty satisfied with the "may or may not include".

[Ed FitzGerald]

A few quick points:

First, position papers are fine, but like the platforms that political parties put out every four years, they are rarely studied except by political junkies, and offer no opportunity for the public or other candidates to press for answers. There is simply no substitue for open forums. There's a reason they were called the Lincoln-Douglas debates, and not the Lincoln-Douglas joint release of position papers.

Second, there is no great "budget" that is required for debates to be held. In 1991 I was the president of a local organization that hosted a debate between the Lakewood mayoral candidates; the cost was $100 to rent a hall, Cox cable televised it, and 200 people attended. It was worthwhile.

Third, debates which favor soundbites of 1 minute answers and 30 second rebuttals are appropriately labelled as political theatre. But it isn't difficult to design a much better, substantive format where citizens can ask questions and follow-up questions. I think the City Club debates are excellent, and can serve as a template for us.

Fourth, everyone knows that many incumbents avoid debates by following a "rose garden strategy," while challengers are seeking debates to make their case. But, it's the civic groups who must decide what they feel is in the public interest. Mayor George has made a decision to talk about things like the Musician's Union endorsement, and telling people who want a debate to just stop by his office. I think that's pretty transparent, but people can draw their own conclusions. In the meantime, I am trying to track down my old piano teacher to offset the mayor's musical support.

Fifth, there have been a few allusions to "attacking Lakewood." If someone is running against an incumbent, it's usually because: 1) they believe they can be effective; and, 2) they disagree with the incumbent's job performance. I love Lakewood, and so does every other candidate running. I also disagree strongly with what's been going on in City Hall, and I think I have a duty to speak out about it. I also think Lakewood is facing some dire challenges, and I'm going to talk frankly about them. I also think Lakewood has great strengths and possibilities, and I'll talk about those too. But I disagree strongly with those who characterize any discussion of our problems as "attacking Lakewood." It's like the old "love America or leave it" argument which was so destructive on the national level.

I hope the Observer sponsors debates as opposed to covering them, but I'll respect your decision. Now, back to practicing my piano.

[dl meckes]

I'm assuming that there is some sort of ad hoc gathering at Bela Dubby on Thursdays which may or may not include Observers and or advisors.

...and I thought it was Saturdays. Maybe that's why I've never been to an Advisory Board meeting.

I'm usually pretty satisfied with the "may or may not include".

I honestly thought you attended the one formal meeting that I remember from about 18 months ago.

I thought the Saturday thing was some sort of modified road trip... er, exploratory fact-finding mission.

[Lynn Farris]

Jim you said:

Why wait? Aren't Ed and Ryan different enough in platforms to get going? Wouldn't it be a great example to stage three debates right now between Ryan and Ed? Lead by example? Set the tone for the other debates.

I agree with you. The public has a right to know where candidates stand on issues and should be able to pose questions to the candidates. If one of them refuses to answer questions about their policies and wants to hide behind whitepapers, that speaks volumes to me. (I'm not against whitepapers - but the public has a right to ask questions about these papers. And of course neither Councilman Demro or Councilman Fitzgerald has the entire city administration and staff at their beck and call to write what Mr. Warren refers to as "heavy" white papers. )

BTW, I am speaking for myself, it isn't clear that the Mayor has refused to debate that he wants to do white papers or that Councilman Demro or Councilamn Fitzgerald don't want to do heavy whitepapers. All we know for sure is that Councilman Fitzgerald and Councilman Demro have agreed to debate and answer the public's questions on where they stand on issues.

The public should be able to hear what the candidates who are willing to meet with the public has to say.

The Mayor has stated

Councilman Fitzgerald,

In order to facilitate a meaningful election dialog, why don't you list all the organizations who feel you are qualified to serve as mayor?

I am quite sure that the Mayor will get the majority of the union endorsements and the majority of the elected Democratic officials. Councilman Demro will get the majority of the elected Republican official endorsements - Republican's rarely get union endorsements. And Councilman Fitzgerald as the non-encumbent Democratic Challenger will get a few of the elected Democratic officials endorsement - but not near as many as the Mayor. That is how it works.

So the list does little for me. But asking questions about their plans for the future of Lakewood does. It also is telling if the candidate refuses to appear at the PTA debate, the LWV debate, the Kiwanas debate, the Chamber of Commerce Debate etc.

[stephen davis]

some sort of modified road trip... er, exploratory fact-finding mission.

Oh, you mean the SECRET meetings in the Cone-of-Silence at the corner of Walk and Don't Walk.



Anyway, I'd like to see all parties debate on Channel 74. Maybe Cox could put 2 or 3 of them on. Some should happen before the primary, and at least one before the general election. maybe each could be moderated by a different group. Candidates could show up, or not, at their own peril.

In addition, I would like to see written questions and answers in the Lakewood Observer before the primary, and once before the general election.

I don't agree with Jeff about silencing the microphones for attacks. Just limit the time for attacks.

Let the games begin.