The State of Parks and Public Properties

[Laurie Campbell]

Two groups that might prosper are business owners and employees of new businesses. Having businesses that are worth millions not tens of thousands might benefit some.

Parents that are afraid of the park now might benefit.

Police might benefit from having less vandalism in the city... the parks department might benefit from having less repairs.

Existing businesses might benefit from having visitors there 12 months a year rather than 3.

The library might benefit from having more people visit the area.

As typical in these posts this is just my opinion... just landfill.

Not landfill at all, Mark. I think you have hit a home run (no pun intended) with your ideas about how to better utilize the park/field and the retail space.

My question is: How does the city pay for the renovations if it is to remain city space (and not become the private property of the developers)? I am just about taxed out of Lakewood. My property taxes are ridiculous for the tiny little lot that I have, and my city income tax is pretty healthy as well. We are currently looking for a bigger house, and after months and months of searching in Lakewood, we're starting to look elsewhere because the taxes here are just outrageous. How can we address the renovations without adding more to an already over-taxed population?

I do love your idea, though.

[Jim O'Bryan]

We are currently looking for a bigger house, and after months and months of searching in Lakewood, we're starting to look elsewhere because the taxes here are just outrageous. How can we address the renovations without adding more to an already over-taxed population?

Laurie

To sidetrack this conversation for a moment. Before you leave, and with full knowledge that we will have three increases on the books. I would hope you would look long and hard at the cost associated with moving to a city with lower taxes. Owning more than one home I understand the pain of taxes.

I have been working on a story since last year and I have dropped the ball on it, but will get back with it as I can tell it is needed.

A move to another city with lower taxes and the cost involved in that move will rarely be offset within ten years or fifteen years.

I know of groups, including the newly formed LEAF Community that is taking a sensible tactic we proposed with Emerald Canyon Co-Op. Taxes in every city around the lakes will never fall. All we can hope for is static levels. But we can work together to bring down the cost of living in Lakewood. Bulk buying of everything from Bee Pollen to Shingles for roofs.

Ideas that seem far fetched but have worked elsewhere like Community Currency, Water Rights, Selling city services before regionalization does it and split up the profits to rebuild East Cleveland must be seriously looked at.

All I ask is look at the larger picture, which you might have done already, before pulling the trigger on the move.

I also have dropped the ball on a fascinating story of people that moved out of Lakewood to Westlake, Bay, Avon, Medina, even Phoenix, and have moved back to Lakewood. While this makes no sense as it guarantees they will never recoup the move money, it shows that they felt they made a mistake and are willing to pay to correct it.

In the end we must all do what is best for ourselves and our families. I hope you reconsider.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Unions rarely appreciate lower paid or nonunion college students taking their work or potential work away from them.

Some unions have even made a big stink about having DUI/DWI offenders clean litter along highways, as in done in some jurisdictions, rather than hiring union sanitary engineers.

Doug

This would be true here as well.

I was speaking with someone at City Hall about staging a Park Cleanup, similar to Clifton Beach clean-up each year.

The idea was the Observer would underwrite coffee, tea, donuts, pizza, lunch, bags, gloves whatever to clean every park in the city at the first hint of spring. Get rid of the dirt and grime, and litter from the winter. Turn pristine parks over to the city, for them to keep up.

The thought was not to just help the city and the parks, but to underline the ownership of these parks is the residents.

The answer was, the unions will not let it happen.

.

[Laurie Campbell]

Jim,

Thanks for the input.

We love living in Lakewood. I am not a native of Northeastern Ohio, so when I moved here, I specifically chose Lakewood because there were so many things I really liked about this city. However, I am not married to any particular city or location for work purposes (I'm in outside sales, and I have a home office), so I have a lot of flexibility there.

We are just getting discouraged because every time we find a house that we really like and that fits our criteria in Lakewood, the taxes are what push it out of our comfortable price range. We could stretch it and then live house-poor or sacrifice educational opportunities for our son, but that's not how we want to live.

I would choose Lakewood 100 times out of 100 over Westlake, Rocky River, Bay, etc., but I have to admit that when we look at Avon/Avon Lake, we can certainly get more house and more land for a lot more reasonable cost without sacrificing the schools, etc.

It's a tough decision, and it probably the reason we're still here in our little bungalow in Lakewood. We just can't seem to pull the trigger on any home that we've seen here or anywhere else.

Maybe that new park and retail space in the center of the city that Mark was mentioning would persuade us to stay, as we're just a little west of that area.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Maybe that new park and retail space in the center of the city that Mark was mentioning would persuade us to stay, as we're just a little west of that area.

Laurie

I think it would be wise not to count on rumors, or any program that promises to reduce taxes or turn the city around.

It would be far wiser for you and your family to deal with the meat and potatoes, not the dream of lobster.

Let's pretend you are moving to the same size house, as it will make the math easier. A house your size in Westlake will cost more. You will loose as much as 7% in commission on the sales of your house. Then you have the wait for the sale, loss of time in showing the house and changing you lifestyle while showing the house. Then the cost of moving, in dollars and cents, and the stress to the family.

I would never ask a Lakewoodite or anyone to base their move on maybes. It must always come down to what works for them in the real world with real issues.

I have just found, that the move because of taxes to be largely a red herring, as rarely is the money recouped in 10 or 15 years.

A larger yard, no neighbors, wanting to own horses, and many other reasons make more sense than taxes.

I hope you stay, if you move thanks for sharing some time with us in Lakewood.

.

[Charyn Compeau]

I agree -and as Jeff and I discussed in another thread -there are many other variables that change as well.

In my example - we pay less in property taxes, but have to pay more in income and have an additional school tax and pay for our own waste disposal.

Believe me when I say we looked long and hard at all of the costs of home-ownership here vs. other communities and there is always a cost.

Either a cost of money, time, amenities or convenience. It is a matter of understanding what is important to you in terms of your home and your neighborhood.

I would say that if you would choose Lakewood 100 times out of 100 over many other communities then you have already answered your own questions. Give it time and the right house will turn up and you will have the house you want in the community you want!

Kind Regards,
Charyn

[Lynn Farris]

This would be true here as well.

I was speaking with someone at City Hall about staging a Park Cleanup, similar to Clifton Beach clean-up each year.

The idea was the Observer would underwrite coffee, tea, donuts, pizza, lunch, bags, gloves whatever to clean every park in the city at the first hint of spring. Get rid of the dirt and grime, and litter from the winter. Turn pristine parks over to the city, for them to keep up.

The thought was not to just help the city and the parks, but to underline the ownership of these parks is the residents.

The answer was, the unions will not let it happen.

I'm all for the unions, but this is the height of obsurdity. What are the unions going to do if we clean up the park their workers seem unable to keep clean? Go on strike? Which unions? I don't think the safety forces can strike - and I'm not sure they would want to expend their political capital on something this stupid. The teacher's union I don't believe would strike because of this - they encourage their students to do this kind of public service, this is one of the things H2O is about.

If the public can't help to keep the park clean and if we can't hire part time summer help to keep the park clean - someone in our administration can't negotiate with the unions very well. I know Mayor George is a big supporter of unions, as am I, but he is also in favor of common sense. He should be able to convince the unions that taking this kind of nonsensical stand is not in their best interest - he is very good at this type of political negotiation.

[Laurie Campbell]

Jim,

The whole reason we are looking for a new home is that we need more space, regardless of whether that means moving to another house in Lakewood or somewhere else. So all of the moving expenses, realtor commission for selling our current house, etc, are awash since it doesn't really matter where we're going....we'd still have all of those issues.

We are currently in a little two-bedroom bungalow on Rosewood, and while it has been a wonderful little starter home, it is not really big enough for our growing family. We need more square footage, and yes, we'd like to have more than a postage stamp sized yard. Can we find that in Lakewood for a reasonable price? Absolutely. But so often we find that the property taxes are so high that it prices us out of the homes we like. We're not talking about living high on the hog here, but when I see a $200,000 home with property taxes at $2500-3000/half, that just seems really high. Maybe I'm just naive about this area, but I know that I have seen homes in Avon Lake for the same cost with property taxes around $1200-1400/half (and much, much more yard).

I'll say it again, I love Lakewood. I'm just not so sure I can afford it anymore.


Edited to add: I apologize for sidetracking the conversation about the parks, which, I think, has a couple of fantastic ideas.

Thanks for letting this rookie join your discussion.

[Mark Reinhold]

I have always thought the additions on homes should qualify for tax abatement.... not new businesses, or new developments. This incentive should exist even if you are moving from one Lakewood house to another then making small additions. The abatement should only exist if square footage is added, that way the city could see guaranteed taxes based on area increases. Although remodeled bathrooms and kitchens add value they don't guarantee appraised value as consistently as additions do. (Consider an "ugly" remodel with 15 years to age and deteriorate.) I know this has existed in the past but not sure if it now exists.

If you want to live in Lakewood. The government should make it as easy as possible to stay. Up front improvement incentives typically cost the city some money, even if is just to administer the program.

If you were offered to keep your property taxes on the home the same for 15 years... would you consider adding on? If you stayed... would would the city make LESS money?

As far as the far fetched Kaufman Park Idea and new taxes for improvement?... I my initial thought was to give the land to a developer... with a 45% - 50% ceiling on lot coverage (including parking req'ts). I thought the bulk of back up parking would happen under the park (like the malls downtown.) There would be everyday parking on Detroit, the park would relate to Detroit... but the code required back-up parking would be entered off of Andrews, using the natural slope of the land.

Just fodder for conversation.... I Agree with D. Farris, lets take care of our existing house first. Creatively...

[Jim O'Bryan]

This would be true here as well.

I was speaking with someone at City Hall about staging a Park Cleanup, similar to Clifton Beach clean-up each year.

The idea was the Observer would underwrite coffee, tea, donuts, pizza, lunch, bags, gloves whatever to clean every park in the city at the first hint of spring. Get rid of the dirt and grime, and litter from the winter. Turn pristine parks over to the city, for them to keep up.

The thought was not to just help the city and the parks, but to underline the ownership of these parks is the residents.

The answer was, the unions will not let it happen.

I'm all for the unions, but this is the height of obsurdity. What are the unions going to do if we clean up the park their workers seem unable to keep clean? Go on strike? Which unions? I don't think the safety forces can strike - and I'm not sure they would want to expend their political capital on something this stupid. The teacher's union I don't believe would strike because of this - they encourage their students to do this kind of public service, this is one of the things H2O is about.

If the public can't help to keep the park clean and if we can't hire part time summer help to keep the park clean - someone in our administration can't negotiate with the unions very well. I know Mayor George is a big supporter of unions, as am I, but he is also in favor of common sense. He should be able to convince the unions that taking this kind of nonsensical stand is not in their best interest - he is very good at this type of political negotiation.

Lynn

I want to make sure you and others realize the person I was talking with was not Tony Beno, the mayor or anyone that might have the final say. It was just a conversation that came up after lunch at The Melt.

No one said do not try, they just thought the unions would be upset and try to stop it.

Me, I think it is like Block Walks, they cannot stp lawful people from walking, I would hope they would not try to stop citizens from picking up litter.

So morning or afternoon? High carbs, or LaPita? would seem to be the only questions left.

.

[dl meckes]

Mark-

Some additions and work on your house DOES qualify for abatement.

Please call the Division of Community Development at 529-HOME (4663).

http://www.ci.lakewood.oh.us/citydept_h ... abate.html

[Danielle Masters]

morning or afternoon? High carbs, or LaPita? would seem to be the only questions left.

Jim, personally I would say afternoons only because I'd take La Pita over high carbs and I know he doesn't open until 11am. Count me in.

[Danielle Masters]

Laurie,

I am not going to argue the tax issue, I totally agree they are high, but from experience (we moved out of Lakewood twice) the grass always seems to be greener elsewhere and it rarely ever is. If you love Lakewood I would encourage you to try and stay. Everywhere you go has added expenses that are often not figured in. But I am just speaking from my experience and I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide.

[c. dawson]

Hey Laurie,

The previous owner of my house also moved from Lakewood out to Avon. She was looking for a little more property, plus she didn't want her kids walking to school, because she has a pathological fear that her kids are going to be kidnapped (I'm not joking, she seriously does).

But since her move, her brand-new McMansion in Avon has been full of problems. Her basement there has flooded 4 times in 3 years ... their basement in Lakewood never flooded in 12 years. She's had to have the homebuilder back to their house more than a dozen times, fixing shoddy work. Her old house - my current house, is 99 years old, and still built like a fortress. With the big snow storm, her street was virtually impassible, and it got plowed the first time 4 days after the snowstorm, with a front-end loader, because apparently Avon's grown so quickly in the past few years that they don't have enough snow-removal equipment to handle all their new streets and subdivisions (and her "street" wasn't fully paved until she had lived there for more than 6 months).

In short, the grass is often greener on the other side of the fence, until you cross over and notice that your grass was actually pretty darn green to begin with.

That said, I know that you have to look for the best possible place to live for you and your family, and while it would be a loss for Lakewood to lose you and your family, you've got to do what you've got to do. But hopefully you can stay in our great community!