One concept was to determine feasibility of an alignment of storage site, delivery site, composting site, trading site and community cooking site.
In short a kind of communitarian Crocker Park that allows young familes to cut expenses, hang together, chop the vegs, cook for the week and save time.
We are still sorting the value drivers for project elements. But one exercise is how much bulk?
Rice, flour, oats....?
What other products belong on the bulk menu?
How much can a member realistically burn through in six months?
How much material do Woodies need to buy in bulk to create savings that are meaningful?
As you can see, there is a rather high level of complexity in all this.
Last night, the thinking was big and out of the box. Yet the discussion was practically informed by Holly and Joe's actual experience, and an intention to improve on that.
Someone made the point that Shaker Heights is developing a community kitchen.
There are a number of critical points to consider:
1. What exactly do members want to cook?
2. Are these church and Masonic sites accessible and affordable for the uses desired (not that we know the uses desired yet)?
There was also the idea that a non-profit might be formed.
I wonder whether or not the Lakewood Christian Service Center as a hunger center (of which I am a board member) has a role to play in Lakewood's food security. At the same time, I realize there are likely secularists, atheists and pagans among us, who would object to the convergence of survival pragmatics, community building, Christian Witness and Holy Fear.
Chef Geoff, if he has the interest or time, might evaluate the various church kitchens, their fees, times of availability, access in an article or series of them.
Perhaps the members interested in the community kitchen concept might provide input to Chef Geoff, who in another article might lay out what is needed, sources of used restaurant material, etc.
Kenneth Warren
Bulk Food/Buyers Club Interest?
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Kenneth Warren
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Chris Trapp
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Thanks Dan & Ken for the recaps of the discussion Saturday night at Bela Dubby. I think you pretty well summarized the main points.
I've been starting to look into health, zoning, building requirements for some of the operations we were talking about. I've also been looking into various models around the country for similar projects.
Some of the primary issues (many of which have been previously mentioned) in my mind are:
What are the primary goals of those that are interested in the food security project - for example...participate in a CSA, obtain inexpensive food, obtain locally-produced food, learn to grow their own, share extra food, exchange food, create some value for themselves/the community through food and products? This will enable us to develop at least an initial scope of work and focus our efforts.
What is the extent of food that we can or want to buy in bulk? Mainly dry goods? What about eggs, milk, butter, CHEESE?
Is local food a priority for everyone? Organic?
What is the structure of the buying club? Are there equal membership shares (similar to the csa) where everyone gets the same stuff or is there a 'storehouse' of goods from which members are able to purchase from on an as-needed basis? I would think the latter would work much better despite the added complexity.
What is the potential cost savings of buying in bulk? What are the economics of such an operation once you factor in all of the associated expenses? How many participants are required to make it feasible? Is the complexity associated with splitting up, say, 50# bags prior to final delivery to each participant cost prohibitive?
If we were to dedicate space to house a project such as managing the warehousing, distribution, etc of a bulk-buying group...what kind of space do we need? Could we get by sharing a space that already meets the required health codes, etc? Do we need to be looking for a specific type of space, or can we adapt any space so long as we meet the proper requirements?
Can we eventually replace the csa produce from a farmer out-of-county with produce grown here in Lakewood?
Can food and food goods (prepared in a co-op kitchen styled after business incubators...shared office space, resources, etc) generate value, jobs, and self-sufficient business in the Wood?
I've been starting to look into health, zoning, building requirements for some of the operations we were talking about. I've also been looking into various models around the country for similar projects.
Some of the primary issues (many of which have been previously mentioned) in my mind are:
What are the primary goals of those that are interested in the food security project - for example...participate in a CSA, obtain inexpensive food, obtain locally-produced food, learn to grow their own, share extra food, exchange food, create some value for themselves/the community through food and products? This will enable us to develop at least an initial scope of work and focus our efforts.
What is the extent of food that we can or want to buy in bulk? Mainly dry goods? What about eggs, milk, butter, CHEESE?
Is local food a priority for everyone? Organic?
What is the structure of the buying club? Are there equal membership shares (similar to the csa) where everyone gets the same stuff or is there a 'storehouse' of goods from which members are able to purchase from on an as-needed basis? I would think the latter would work much better despite the added complexity.
What is the potential cost savings of buying in bulk? What are the economics of such an operation once you factor in all of the associated expenses? How many participants are required to make it feasible? Is the complexity associated with splitting up, say, 50# bags prior to final delivery to each participant cost prohibitive?
If we were to dedicate space to house a project such as managing the warehousing, distribution, etc of a bulk-buying group...what kind of space do we need? Could we get by sharing a space that already meets the required health codes, etc? Do we need to be looking for a specific type of space, or can we adapt any space so long as we meet the proper requirements?
Can we eventually replace the csa produce from a farmer out-of-county with produce grown here in Lakewood?
Can food and food goods (prepared in a co-op kitchen styled after business incubators...shared office space, resources, etc) generate value, jobs, and self-sufficient business in the Wood?
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Chris Trapp
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:46 am
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
fyi...from cool cleveland:
Fresh Training Program Attend information session for ten-week training course in urban agriculture and small business planning for Cleveland area residents that will begin next year. Info session is Thu 12/7 at 6PM at Carnegie West Library, 1900 Fulton Rd. Call 429-8238 or visit http://www.gotthenac.org.
i'm planning on going to this.
is anyone else interested in going to this...dan/ken/etc?
Fresh Training Program Attend information session for ten-week training course in urban agriculture and small business planning for Cleveland area residents that will begin next year. Info session is Thu 12/7 at 6PM at Carnegie West Library, 1900 Fulton Rd. Call 429-8238 or visit http://www.gotthenac.org.
i'm planning on going to this.
is anyone else interested in going to this...dan/ken/etc?
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
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Tim Liston
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- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:10 pm
I've semi-lurked this thread and I wanna weigh in....
I'd love to go to the meeting tonight but I have an important neighborhood meeting at 7:30. Given the weather, they may have to schedule another meeting anyway. If you do go please fill us in.
Let me mention, by way of background, that for the last four years I don't think I have had a single meal that came out of a box, and I very rarely eat out. At least 50% of what I eat comes from the produce or bulk food sections at Nature's Bin. The rest is all good too. I also participated in the Covered Bridge CSA.
Some potential goals have been mentioned.....
1- Bulk Buying – This has been the most-discussed idea, and I hate to dissent right off the bat, but how are we gonna do a better job than Marc's does?
2- High-Quality Food – Again, that is already available to us in Lakewood, at Nature's Bin. Yes, Nature's Bin is pretty expensive but I don't think we can do better. Plus I think we should patronize Nature's Bin, lest it go the route of its (former) east side location. Let's work with them.
3- Obtain locally grown food – A worthy endeavor. The CSA was a lot of fun and we should keep it going. The produce was great but a tad expensive. If we could grow the membership maybe we could make the CSA a little more cost-effective. Frankly I could get more for my $20 at Nature's Bin and get exactly what I want, exactly when I need it. The best part about the CSA was the surprise every week and learning how to cook foods that I had not tried before. One problem is it's not year round.
4- Homegrown – Folks, this is Lakewood. The City of Shade Trees, Tiny Lots and Long Winters. I'm skeptical....
5- Food Sharing – Now we're getting somewhere, IMO. When I bother to cook something, I'd rather cook a LOT of it. As a result I have a freezer full of food in the basement. I'd happily trade a quart of my homemade chicken potpie filling for a pint of your hummus. Just put the filling in a baking dish, put a puff pastry on top, and bake it for 20 minutes or so. The other day I cooked up 16 sugar pumpkins, as many as I could cram in the oven at the same time. What will you offer me for a quart of homemade pumpkin puree (enough for two pies)? I believe Ken and a couple others got a free pint of tabbouleh out of me last summer. Let's do it!
6- Community Kitchen – Bingo! A community kitchen would be really neat and it kind of dovetails with the food sharing concept. If I'm gonna bother making chili, I'd rather make a LOT of it. It doesn't take much more time to make two gallons than it does one quart. I have a freezer in the basement.
Along those lines, I would also propose Community Canning. The fall before last I learned how to can a few things, applesauce, tomatoes, green beans, etc. I bought a pressure canner all the way down in Lodi, then one day that same fall Marc's had just one lone canner in a beat up box for $10. Having some experience, I was able to determine that all the parts were there so I bought it too. So now I have two.
Cooking/canning is very labor intensive, particularly in small batches. The Community Kitchen concept intrigues me greatly. Dan you boil the skins off the tomatoes, Jana you prep the string beans. Heidi you run the apple peeler and DL can cut 'em up and throw 'em in a pot. I was able to get apples for $15 a bushel out in the sticks. Chris you boil the jars/lids, Ken you pack the jars. I can man about four canners at once. Jeff can keep us together and see to the proper libations. We could can a couple hundred quarts in a day, and each take home a bunch. Now THAT'S food security. Plus it would be fun to hang with you all for a few hours....
Ken said he thought Bulk Buying was the next strand. With all due respect to Ken (who is generally much smarter than me), I think we have that available already. If you don't like the Marc's here in town, go the the one in Rocky River. But we don't have a anything like a Community Kitchen. That's where I'd like to head. Plus it doesn't have to be seasonal.
As JO would say, FWIW....
I'd love to go to the meeting tonight but I have an important neighborhood meeting at 7:30. Given the weather, they may have to schedule another meeting anyway. If you do go please fill us in.
Let me mention, by way of background, that for the last four years I don't think I have had a single meal that came out of a box, and I very rarely eat out. At least 50% of what I eat comes from the produce or bulk food sections at Nature's Bin. The rest is all good too. I also participated in the Covered Bridge CSA.
Some potential goals have been mentioned.....
1- Bulk Buying – This has been the most-discussed idea, and I hate to dissent right off the bat, but how are we gonna do a better job than Marc's does?
2- High-Quality Food – Again, that is already available to us in Lakewood, at Nature's Bin. Yes, Nature's Bin is pretty expensive but I don't think we can do better. Plus I think we should patronize Nature's Bin, lest it go the route of its (former) east side location. Let's work with them.
3- Obtain locally grown food – A worthy endeavor. The CSA was a lot of fun and we should keep it going. The produce was great but a tad expensive. If we could grow the membership maybe we could make the CSA a little more cost-effective. Frankly I could get more for my $20 at Nature's Bin and get exactly what I want, exactly when I need it. The best part about the CSA was the surprise every week and learning how to cook foods that I had not tried before. One problem is it's not year round.
4- Homegrown – Folks, this is Lakewood. The City of Shade Trees, Tiny Lots and Long Winters. I'm skeptical....
5- Food Sharing – Now we're getting somewhere, IMO. When I bother to cook something, I'd rather cook a LOT of it. As a result I have a freezer full of food in the basement. I'd happily trade a quart of my homemade chicken potpie filling for a pint of your hummus. Just put the filling in a baking dish, put a puff pastry on top, and bake it for 20 minutes or so. The other day I cooked up 16 sugar pumpkins, as many as I could cram in the oven at the same time. What will you offer me for a quart of homemade pumpkin puree (enough for two pies)? I believe Ken and a couple others got a free pint of tabbouleh out of me last summer. Let's do it!
6- Community Kitchen – Bingo! A community kitchen would be really neat and it kind of dovetails with the food sharing concept. If I'm gonna bother making chili, I'd rather make a LOT of it. It doesn't take much more time to make two gallons than it does one quart. I have a freezer in the basement.
Along those lines, I would also propose Community Canning. The fall before last I learned how to can a few things, applesauce, tomatoes, green beans, etc. I bought a pressure canner all the way down in Lodi, then one day that same fall Marc's had just one lone canner in a beat up box for $10. Having some experience, I was able to determine that all the parts were there so I bought it too. So now I have two.
Cooking/canning is very labor intensive, particularly in small batches. The Community Kitchen concept intrigues me greatly. Dan you boil the skins off the tomatoes, Jana you prep the string beans. Heidi you run the apple peeler and DL can cut 'em up and throw 'em in a pot. I was able to get apples for $15 a bushel out in the sticks. Chris you boil the jars/lids, Ken you pack the jars. I can man about four canners at once. Jeff can keep us together and see to the proper libations. We could can a couple hundred quarts in a day, and each take home a bunch. Now THAT'S food security. Plus it would be fun to hang with you all for a few hours....
Ken said he thought Bulk Buying was the next strand. With all due respect to Ken (who is generally much smarter than me), I think we have that available already. If you don't like the Marc's here in town, go the the one in Rocky River. But we don't have a anything like a Community Kitchen. That's where I'd like to head. Plus it doesn't have to be seasonal.
As JO would say, FWIW....