What I found on the site the library provides to house the zoning code is not up-to-date.
In the past couple of years, Council has approved a number of changes to the code that allow for increased zoning flexibility.
Visionary Alignment: Question 2
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
Ken,
While the proposal was extensive and provided plenty of detail, I have one primary question to start with. I understand the idea of maintaining principle in the city's accounts for the benefits of interest. And I'm with you on the importance of keeping business in the local community. My question, for starters is as an employee would I receive this credit in place of the same amount of my normal paycheck? From the employees perspective, I would feel as if I was just given a chicken and told well it's still worth as much just give the chicken to the shoemaker and you can get some shoes. If you want to give me, as the hypothetical employee, a city credit, then for my trouble to accept the change from the norm I would want an added benefit say a credit for $3500 rather than my normal paycheck of $3000. And therein lies problem one. The buy in from the employee may eat away at the very incentive that the city would gain, if not make it a losing scenerio.
I've heard some of the discussion on community currency and it just seems to be an effort to be cutting edge when a serious effort to compete would work just as well. I'm not sure that I see how any version of community currency leverages the strengths of our city other than the aspect (judgement call if its a strength or weakness) that we've been open at times to frivilous discussions in the hallowed halls of government. I love creative solutions to tough problems and think that this is a great place to discuss ideas. This one seems to be too creative though. It seems like 2+2-10000+10002-2=4.
I'll add one other trick I forsee in this plan. It's listed as a benefit that the employee can use his credit to pay property taxes. Yet it overlooks the reality that his check would go further if his property wasn't in Lakewood. Which gets back to the root of the problem, the prop tax is higher than neighboring cities and needs to be corrected. I'll accept the argument for greater value of having a property in Lakewood but really it's not "value", it's preference.
Whether it's the Chatauqua plan to create a buzz (which as fads go bases little on tangibles or cost and everything on emotion and filling some insecure hole about being part of the in crowd) or bringing in $10 Million in new condos or making Lakewood money they all seem to distract from the issue rather than solving it. We're the 2nd highest taxed city in Cuyahoga. While it's great to be at the top of some rankings, this is not one that's drawing people in awe to come here.
While the proposal was extensive and provided plenty of detail, I have one primary question to start with. I understand the idea of maintaining principle in the city's accounts for the benefits of interest. And I'm with you on the importance of keeping business in the local community. My question, for starters is as an employee would I receive this credit in place of the same amount of my normal paycheck? From the employees perspective, I would feel as if I was just given a chicken and told well it's still worth as much just give the chicken to the shoemaker and you can get some shoes. If you want to give me, as the hypothetical employee, a city credit, then for my trouble to accept the change from the norm I would want an added benefit say a credit for $3500 rather than my normal paycheck of $3000. And therein lies problem one. The buy in from the employee may eat away at the very incentive that the city would gain, if not make it a losing scenerio.
I've heard some of the discussion on community currency and it just seems to be an effort to be cutting edge when a serious effort to compete would work just as well. I'm not sure that I see how any version of community currency leverages the strengths of our city other than the aspect (judgement call if its a strength or weakness) that we've been open at times to frivilous discussions in the hallowed halls of government. I love creative solutions to tough problems and think that this is a great place to discuss ideas. This one seems to be too creative though. It seems like 2+2-10000+10002-2=4.
I'll add one other trick I forsee in this plan. It's listed as a benefit that the employee can use his credit to pay property taxes. Yet it overlooks the reality that his check would go further if his property wasn't in Lakewood. Which gets back to the root of the problem, the prop tax is higher than neighboring cities and needs to be corrected. I'll accept the argument for greater value of having a property in Lakewood but really it's not "value", it's preference.
Whether it's the Chatauqua plan to create a buzz (which as fads go bases little on tangibles or cost and everything on emotion and filling some insecure hole about being part of the in crowd) or bringing in $10 Million in new condos or making Lakewood money they all seem to distract from the issue rather than solving it. We're the 2nd highest taxed city in Cuyahoga. While it's great to be at the top of some rankings, this is not one that's drawing people in awe to come here.
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dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Shawn Juris wrote:Whether it's the Chatauqua plan to create a buzz (which as fads go bases little on tangibles or cost and everything on emotion and filling some insecure hole about being part of the in crowd)
I really don't understand what this means.
Tourism brings dollars to destinations.
People enjoy travelling to places that offer them things they enjoy and intellectual tourism is a popular concept.
Were you to go to Chautauqua during the both during the season and off-season, you wouldn't believe the population defference. Of course, many people vacation there and have no relationship with the Institution, but the Institution is a huge draw.
People go there because they know about it and they've been visiting the Instution for decades.
Please take a look at: http://www.ciweb.org
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
My bad, the Chatauqua plan as a way to build a tourism industry is all well and good. I have an image, whether it's accurate or not I'll take full responsibility for, of a city of young hipsters that would be drawn to this area as a result. What seems flawed is why this new crowd would have more money to burn than the existing group. I admit that I know little about the institute or what it provides. I'll do my best to be more clear. Point was that the proposed solution is marketing (which could be fine) rather than acknowledging and addressing what seem to be the issues.
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dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
I'd guess the average age of an intellectual tourist skews "old." As in people enjoying a comfortable retirement or getting close to it.
Harry and the Potters concert was meant for a younger crowd and did draw a lot of people to Lakewood as well as getting a lot of Lakewoodites out of their homes.
The library has a lot of fine programming. I don't think the word gets out about how good it is. Coordinating that programming with other activities at other venues so that one could fill one's days with fun activities (including visiting a number of antique shops and some pretty fine dining) over a week, and pretty soon, with the right marketing, you have a destination.
Have you been to the Arts Festival? Lots of non-residents come to that.
When we talk about business models that we would like to see in Lakewood, I think we are ignoring some things that are right in front of our noses.
We have a lot of the building blocks in place.
Harry and the Potters concert was meant for a younger crowd and did draw a lot of people to Lakewood as well as getting a lot of Lakewoodites out of their homes.
The library has a lot of fine programming. I don't think the word gets out about how good it is. Coordinating that programming with other activities at other venues so that one could fill one's days with fun activities (including visiting a number of antique shops and some pretty fine dining) over a week, and pretty soon, with the right marketing, you have a destination.
Have you been to the Arts Festival? Lots of non-residents come to that.
When we talk about business models that we would like to see in Lakewood, I think we are ignoring some things that are right in front of our noses.
We have a lot of the building blocks in place.
“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
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Lynn Farris
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:24 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
- Contact:
One of the things that struck me when Savannah was doing her research was in one of the analysis, it said that "Lakewood is a College Town without a College". That seemed to strike a chord. I guess you could say the same thing about Chatauqua.
Last weekend I was in Ithaca N.Y. They are on a lake too - but not as nice as ours. We may want to research what they are doing and how they are doing.
Another city that I really think we should emulate is Lake Forest. I love how they took their cliff and made a beach that the whole town uses. I gave Councilman Fitzgerald a movie on how they did it. It is an older town - with a college too.
Last weekend I was in Ithaca N.Y. They are on a lake too - but not as nice as ours. We may want to research what they are doing and how they are doing.
Another city that I really think we should emulate is Lake Forest. I love how they took their cliff and made a beach that the whole town uses. I gave Councilman Fitzgerald a movie on how they did it. It is an older town - with a college too.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
Been to both the Arts Festival and Harry and the Potters show and worked at both. They're great ways to build a feeling of community and they do bring people in from outside of Lakewood. Great add on to include in the big plan. Who's going to underwrite these though? As someone who spearheaded an event over the summer, I know full well that there are some major costs to putting something on that is going to attract a large enough crowd to get noticed. While we were lucky enough to have some strong supporters that were confident in our plan, there seems to be a severely limited number of businesses either willing or financially able to kick in to sponsor an event. We in fact gave up on sponsors for our 5K because we heard too many no's. Seems that if we had some employers with a significant number of employees we may have a greater base to chose from. Coincidentally, or not, I don't think franchises are the answer because they have to answer to corporate guidelines and often do not provide funding for such events. Independents recognize the benefit of supporting local interests but they need to to have a marketing budget. Last option for funding is the city or schools which seems counterproductive in some way if we're concerned about being taxed too much.
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
Shawn:
Yes, the public employee’s paycheck would be reduced in competitive dollars by the amount issued in the local currency/Muni tax credit.
It’s obviously not the public employee’s perspective from which this premise begins. That is because the enemy you have named is “high taxes.†Furthermore, it’s not the public employee whose interests will reduce your property taxes. It’s the “strict father,†rising up from inside Lakewood taxpayers to relieve a portion of their burdens by serving up chicken wings (local currency Muni tax credits) and chicken breasts (competitive dollars), simply because there’s not enough white meat to go around anymore.
The “strict father†does not want to see the employee starve, whether he lives either inside or outside the Wood. However, the chicken wing (local currency Muni tax credit) can’t be eaten outside Lakewood. Eaten in Lakewood that Muni chicken wing might seem as plump and juicy as a breast from Kentucky Fried.
This is not a frivolous idea. It is a radical one going beyond the branding and fresh packaging of Lakewood that is the Lakewood Observer’s specialty, but a feel good in the Wood specialty that, as you suggest, can only take us so far.
So I see such a “strict father†move to a local currency Muni Credit as a serious effort to help Lakewood compete.
You raise the point of making an effort to compete and supply only a broad generalization, following after the sensitive consideration of the employee’s perspective that he’s been squeezed.
The squeeze is on, as Bill Call so often reminds us.
The squeeze is on the American worker who depends on access to the competitive dollar. The bottom line on the competitive dollar is that free trade policy means the American worker is competing with hordes working 14 hour days for 25 cents per hour in places like India and China where the government is removing land from peasants and giving it to corporations to build factories that produce the products imported to America.
That’s the reality of competition.
Name the enemy.
You say high taxes.
I say free trade that is unfair trade, something Clinton bears as large a blame as Bush. When I say free trade that is unfair trade, I mean policy and laws that allow capital and technology to go anywhere in the world to employ cheap labor and trash the environment and then ship the product back to us.
I intend no distraction when I draw analogies, name the enemy, provide a strategic overview and outline a rather concrete idea for action that addresses the problem you raised – “We’re the 2nd highest taxed city in Cuyahoga.â€Â
.
If you don’t like this idea, that’s fine with me. I realize you are coming to grips with the limitations and expenses of Lakewood’s local economy and small businesses. So to move your thinking to a more concrete and programmatic iteration, I challenge you, to supply particulars for a plan of action that will correct the problem of high taxes.
Kenneth Warren
Yes, the public employee’s paycheck would be reduced in competitive dollars by the amount issued in the local currency/Muni tax credit.
It’s obviously not the public employee’s perspective from which this premise begins. That is because the enemy you have named is “high taxes.†Furthermore, it’s not the public employee whose interests will reduce your property taxes. It’s the “strict father,†rising up from inside Lakewood taxpayers to relieve a portion of their burdens by serving up chicken wings (local currency Muni tax credits) and chicken breasts (competitive dollars), simply because there’s not enough white meat to go around anymore.
The “strict father†does not want to see the employee starve, whether he lives either inside or outside the Wood. However, the chicken wing (local currency Muni tax credit) can’t be eaten outside Lakewood. Eaten in Lakewood that Muni chicken wing might seem as plump and juicy as a breast from Kentucky Fried.
This is not a frivolous idea. It is a radical one going beyond the branding and fresh packaging of Lakewood that is the Lakewood Observer’s specialty, but a feel good in the Wood specialty that, as you suggest, can only take us so far.
So I see such a “strict father†move to a local currency Muni Credit as a serious effort to help Lakewood compete.
You raise the point of making an effort to compete and supply only a broad generalization, following after the sensitive consideration of the employee’s perspective that he’s been squeezed.
The squeeze is on, as Bill Call so often reminds us.
The squeeze is on the American worker who depends on access to the competitive dollar. The bottom line on the competitive dollar is that free trade policy means the American worker is competing with hordes working 14 hour days for 25 cents per hour in places like India and China where the government is removing land from peasants and giving it to corporations to build factories that produce the products imported to America.
That’s the reality of competition.
Name the enemy.
You say high taxes.
I say free trade that is unfair trade, something Clinton bears as large a blame as Bush. When I say free trade that is unfair trade, I mean policy and laws that allow capital and technology to go anywhere in the world to employ cheap labor and trash the environment and then ship the product back to us.
I intend no distraction when I draw analogies, name the enemy, provide a strategic overview and outline a rather concrete idea for action that addresses the problem you raised – “We’re the 2nd highest taxed city in Cuyahoga.â€Â
.
If you don’t like this idea, that’s fine with me. I realize you are coming to grips with the limitations and expenses of Lakewood’s local economy and small businesses. So to move your thinking to a more concrete and programmatic iteration, I challenge you, to supply particulars for a plan of action that will correct the problem of high taxes.
Kenneth Warren
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
Ken,
So the muni tax credit will shortchange those that receive it so the city can benefit financially? Please clarify this because I must have missed something. If at best the solution offers to allow the city to retain the interest and hold captive competitive dollars within the city then I'll need to hear the incentive for the public employees. If on one hand Grow Lakewood for instance decides that we need to entice Public employees with incentives then this seems to do quite the opposite. It's their money, offer them a good product and they will buy Lakewood.
I appreciate the challenge to come up with the answer. If I had the solution to this though, I'm sure that I would be sitting somewhere else rather than at a desk at my insurance agency. When I say high taxes I'm not comparing Lakewood to distant cities that compete differently with globalization and the world economy. We are behind every city except one within our own county. I think it's fair to reject the notion that it's not because of manufacturing being sent overseas. Seems to be the opposite of the common motherly warning of "if everyone is doing it... ". Well most everyone else is able to make it for far less than we're paying, why, how, what are they doing so differently?
As to the challenge to fix the problem, I know what I believe to be the solution and stand by the need to retain and draw new business. While I'm all about doing my part, I don't have the means, the connections or the time to find 24 more companies that can bring in as much property as AT&T has (last stat I saw was $5 million in equipment) to get to the $120 million that I suggested as needed to put a significant dent in residential property taxes. A dent that would make us competitive in a competitive local market.
For a discussion board I always find it strange how it comes back to get more involved, don't like it fix it. I may not like what the Browns are doing but I'm not about to go out and make a tackle or design a play. There are paid professionals that have that job and paid, elected or appointed positions in place to do this one. I think I do more than my part to lend a hand but there are limits. Let's be honest, while we are talking about politics that effect us directly, I'm just armchair quarterbacking. I don't expect Tom Jordan or Tom George to say "huh, Juris has got something there. Why didn't we think of that?" If I did list 24 such companies then it would be well why don't you discuss it with them and why don't you have them come in... because I'm an insurance agent just chatting online. It may well be different in others' shoes but that's something that has been earned. I consider it to modest to expect that my ideas are not ones that are unique or groundbreaking solutions, they're just something to talk about that maybe can be pointed to one day as if they were the reason for some change or were at least on the right side before the results came in.
So the muni tax credit will shortchange those that receive it so the city can benefit financially? Please clarify this because I must have missed something. If at best the solution offers to allow the city to retain the interest and hold captive competitive dollars within the city then I'll need to hear the incentive for the public employees. If on one hand Grow Lakewood for instance decides that we need to entice Public employees with incentives then this seems to do quite the opposite. It's their money, offer them a good product and they will buy Lakewood.
I appreciate the challenge to come up with the answer. If I had the solution to this though, I'm sure that I would be sitting somewhere else rather than at a desk at my insurance agency. When I say high taxes I'm not comparing Lakewood to distant cities that compete differently with globalization and the world economy. We are behind every city except one within our own county. I think it's fair to reject the notion that it's not because of manufacturing being sent overseas. Seems to be the opposite of the common motherly warning of "if everyone is doing it... ". Well most everyone else is able to make it for far less than we're paying, why, how, what are they doing so differently?
As to the challenge to fix the problem, I know what I believe to be the solution and stand by the need to retain and draw new business. While I'm all about doing my part, I don't have the means, the connections or the time to find 24 more companies that can bring in as much property as AT&T has (last stat I saw was $5 million in equipment) to get to the $120 million that I suggested as needed to put a significant dent in residential property taxes. A dent that would make us competitive in a competitive local market.
For a discussion board I always find it strange how it comes back to get more involved, don't like it fix it. I may not like what the Browns are doing but I'm not about to go out and make a tackle or design a play. There are paid professionals that have that job and paid, elected or appointed positions in place to do this one. I think I do more than my part to lend a hand but there are limits. Let's be honest, while we are talking about politics that effect us directly, I'm just armchair quarterbacking. I don't expect Tom Jordan or Tom George to say "huh, Juris has got something there. Why didn't we think of that?" If I did list 24 such companies then it would be well why don't you discuss it with them and why don't you have them come in... because I'm an insurance agent just chatting online. It may well be different in others' shoes but that's something that has been earned. I consider it to modest to expect that my ideas are not ones that are unique or groundbreaking solutions, they're just something to talk about that maybe can be pointed to one day as if they were the reason for some change or were at least on the right side before the results came in.
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
Lynn/DL:
While the only officially published version of the Zoning Code is available through the office of the Clerk of Council, located at City Hall, Lakewood Public Library makes a considerable and cooperative effort to work with Mary Hagan and obtain for purposes of general information access to Zoning Code and updates.
We do our best. There is this disclaimer on our website:
“This on-line version of the Zoning Code of the City of Lakewood, related legislation, and regulations is not the official version. The only officially published version is available through the office of the Clerk of Council, located at City Hall, phone (216) 529-6054. This on-line version may, occasionally, differ from the official version and should be relied upon for general information purposes only.â€Â
It is my understanding from Mary Ellen Stasek, our Systems Librarian, who works with Mary Hagan, that the City has contacted with a firm "to codify and mount a Web (Folio) version. That should better serve our citizens for timeliness. It comes at a price for the City, of course."
When the City is ready to present the new product Lakewod Public Library take down our versions of the Ordinances and Zoning Code.
I apologize for any confusion. We are doing the best we can to make the information presented to us available to the general public.
Kenneth Warren
Director
Lakewood Public Library
While the only officially published version of the Zoning Code is available through the office of the Clerk of Council, located at City Hall, Lakewood Public Library makes a considerable and cooperative effort to work with Mary Hagan and obtain for purposes of general information access to Zoning Code and updates.
We do our best. There is this disclaimer on our website:
“This on-line version of the Zoning Code of the City of Lakewood, related legislation, and regulations is not the official version. The only officially published version is available through the office of the Clerk of Council, located at City Hall, phone (216) 529-6054. This on-line version may, occasionally, differ from the official version and should be relied upon for general information purposes only.â€Â
It is my understanding from Mary Ellen Stasek, our Systems Librarian, who works with Mary Hagan, that the City has contacted with a firm "to codify and mount a Web (Folio) version. That should better serve our citizens for timeliness. It comes at a price for the City, of course."
When the City is ready to present the new product Lakewod Public Library take down our versions of the Ordinances and Zoning Code.
I apologize for any confusion. We are doing the best we can to make the information presented to us available to the general public.
Kenneth Warren
Director
Lakewood Public Library
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Lynn Farris
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:24 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
- Contact:
You are right Ken, I clicked on the Lakewood Official web site, but it read the zoning code off of yours. I do appreciate that you make this information so readily accessible to the citizens of Lakewood.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Shawn Juries wrote:I appreciate the challenge to come up with the answer. If I had the solution to this though, I'm sure that I would be sitting somewhere else rather than at a desk at my insurance agency. When I say high taxes I'm not comparing Lakewood to distant cities that compete differently with globalization and the world economy. We are behind every city except one within our own county. I think it's fair to reject the notion that it's not because of manufacturing being sent overseas. Seems to be the opposite of the common motherly warning of "if everyone is doing it... ". Well most everyone else is able to make it for far less than we're paying, why, how, what are they doing so differently?
Shawn
No one is against business, I hope we are all against business that does not add to the over all view or feel of Lakewood. Out of Joan's 500,000 this leaves about 150,000 I am sure. To just beg a factory to come, and have it ruin the part of the city it is in would be a disaster. It is tough now, what if we had a fat rendering company, or even the nickel plating company that is moving in, move to the center of the city.
As for what one person can do, ask Suzanne Metelko, or Ken Warren. Suzanne working with the VAL was almost able to bring a University into Lakewood. Had Cleveland State not issued press releases there would be a university where Ferry Cap and Screw is now. Had another member had their way, it would have been The University of Bejing. One person working very hard with a bunch of residents supporting her work.
Other items have to be taken on by one or two risk takers. Community Currency cannot be floated by the city government or any bank that is federally insured. It has to be done by outsiders. In Lakewood, we cannot seek water rights, but individuals can. I would say 90% of the ideas thrown out at discussion needs no city involvement, until it comes to final stages. Of course the mayor and planning department are always kept up to speed when something looks like it is going to hit.
Are you so sure others are doing it? Rocky River is getting tough, homes for sale, Strongsville I believe is leading the suburbs in foreclosures. Every city between Lakewood and Huron is having a tough time of it. Look at Crocker Park. businesses counting the hours until their lease is up. Long rows of industrial/office space right off of I-90 that have been vacant for over a decade. All are looking to raise their taxes. Don't believe the hype.
The key to Lakewood's future is you, Joan, Ken, Suzanne, etc.
FWIW
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Since the library is providing this service, I certainly don't expect anyone there to be spending all of his/her time inputting information (especially if it is the King of Geektechistan).
The Building Department would be the first stop on the road to the current code.
The Building Department would be the first stop on the road to the current code.
“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
The hype, Jim. This discussion is not about hype. It's about the reality at this point at least of what is being paid from one city to another. The trends are predictions and are difficult to measure. The vacancies exist here as well. As much as you want to remind us that Crocker Park is bounding towards failure, what you are giving is hype and speculation. Until it happens it is not a fact.
Here's a sampling of some facts. I found them interesting to know what we're starting with and what our competition is. To be clear I think that there's no reason why Lakewood can't be the place of choice for homeowner's and businesses but if we're going to discuss it, let's be honest about it.
Cities are ranked by property tax. Residential on the left, commercial on the right. I apologize that it collapsed the spacing together. So while other may be increasing (or maybe not) we need to come down in either category to compete with Bay which strikes me as a city that intentionally keeps rates up to keep others out. Either that or they have the same problem we do, no industry.
Cleveland Hts 2.83 Cleveland Hts 3.85
Lakewood 2.62 Lakewood 3.62
Bay Village 2.39 Euclid 3.16
Lyndhurst 2.37 Bay Village 3.08
North Olmsted 2.18 Fairview/Rocky River 2.94
Fairview/Rocky River 2.16 Rocky River 2.91
Rocky River 2.14 Lyndhurst 2.84
Euclid 2.13 North Olmsted 2.74
Berea 2.06 Berea 2.69
Broadview Hts 2.03 Bedford 2.68
Fairview/Berea 2.00 Solon 2.62
Solon 2.00 Broadview Hts 2.61
Bedford 1.98 Fairview/Berea 2.60
Parma 1.96 Beachwood 2.46
Strongsville 1.87 Strongsville 2.41
Beachwood 1.86 Parma 2.38
Mayfield Hts 1.79 Mayfield Hts 2.37
Westlake 1.72 Westlake 2.13
Independence 1.58 Independence 1.87
Here's a sampling of some facts. I found them interesting to know what we're starting with and what our competition is. To be clear I think that there's no reason why Lakewood can't be the place of choice for homeowner's and businesses but if we're going to discuss it, let's be honest about it.
Cities are ranked by property tax. Residential on the left, commercial on the right. I apologize that it collapsed the spacing together. So while other may be increasing (or maybe not) we need to come down in either category to compete with Bay which strikes me as a city that intentionally keeps rates up to keep others out. Either that or they have the same problem we do, no industry.
Cleveland Hts 2.83 Cleveland Hts 3.85
Lakewood 2.62 Lakewood 3.62
Bay Village 2.39 Euclid 3.16
Lyndhurst 2.37 Bay Village 3.08
North Olmsted 2.18 Fairview/Rocky River 2.94
Fairview/Rocky River 2.16 Rocky River 2.91
Rocky River 2.14 Lyndhurst 2.84
Euclid 2.13 North Olmsted 2.74
Berea 2.06 Berea 2.69
Broadview Hts 2.03 Bedford 2.68
Fairview/Berea 2.00 Solon 2.62
Solon 2.00 Broadview Hts 2.61
Bedford 1.98 Fairview/Berea 2.60
Parma 1.96 Beachwood 2.46
Strongsville 1.87 Strongsville 2.41
Beachwood 1.86 Parma 2.38
Mayfield Hts 1.79 Mayfield Hts 2.37
Westlake 1.72 Westlake 2.13
Independence 1.58 Independence 1.87
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Shawn
Funny, just got your message and was writing about another interesting point you brought up.
"I don't expect Tom Jordan or Tom George to say "huh, Juris has got something there. Why didn't we think of that?" If I did list 24 such companies then it would be well why don't you discuss it with them and why don't you have them come in... because I'm an insurance agent just chatting online. "
Why not? Why not at least try?
What is instead of "just an insurance agent" you had an idea, threw it on the table of a bunch of radical thinkers, that had insight in everything from starting businesses to running libraries, from understanding banks, loans and finance, to understanding the radical solid concepts of alternative currency, promoters, designers, retired, young, old, green, and not so green, republican and democrat, retired politicians, and current, get them to fine tune it, vet it, and tinker, then present to the city, that realistically looks at the plan, and sees how it fits, and if it adds, subtracts or is so balanced one can try just to try without fear.
Welcome to the VAL and the tool we like to call the Lakewood Observer Project. Where a person is encouraged to bring ideas to the discussion and get them kicked around and changed as intelligent people from every walk of life can have a stab. Bring it, we will respect you, as you respect us. If it has a chance, that person can get help, like minded workers, finances, publicity and more at no cost, no tracking of email for sale to others, all we ask is that if you choose to post, use your real name. You do not have to sign in to read our discussion boards.
A very wise member of the Observation Deck once said about the VAL "it is not right that a small group decides for everyone." I laughed, as the group is as big as anyone that wants to take the time and throw it out, or help with their knowledge/experience base, it becomes very powerful and works so fast it is silly.
An interesting occurrence that actually happened offline because of the "rumor" aspect was The Thai/Somali Refuges. At 12:35 the rumor was heard and dropped into the "machine." "300 Thai Refugees speaking Mai, we coming in to fill Section 8 homes" By 12:50 it was realized that Mai was spoken in Somalia. By 1:10 there was establishment of a high influx of Somalia Refugees into America. By 1:17 it was established that Catholic Charities was the largest mover of Somali Refugees. 1:20 Catholic Charities was known to have meetings in Ohio. Now the question was, what is the impact of 300 Somali Refugees on a city. Is it good, bad, or the safe bet. What are the implications of 80 Somali Refugees on our schools, businesses, etc. By 2:30 all the answers were in, digested, and put away. Just a rumor, but a fun test.
The City of Lakewood, the Lakewood School System, and others cannot afford this kind of thought process. They do not have to it is already here for free. A person that loves Lakewood and Lakewood Park takes the time to build a thesis around a redesign, what falls out is so breathtaking, no one believe a person so young... It does not matter, an idea on the table to get dissected. Developers, bankers, fanciers, park users all have a chance to find the good and the bad. This one makes it to council, this one was a winner. Savannah saved this city $60,000 at the least. I still think it is only one of three plans I have heard of in 10 years that make sense and has no downside.
Another problem with city thinking and one of the big problems with Savannah's plan, the city had just done a $30,000 study, and had committed to that. It would have been insane to throw away $30,000 in study and a new entrance. At the Observer, we can turn on a dime.
You are not Shawn Juris Insurance Agent her. Here you are Shawn Juris, fellow Observer of the Stone Cutters, brother to the Royal Family of Bystanders, and sister to the Delightful Dancing Daughters of Delphi. Here your idea like every idea and thought is a small pebble sent rolling down a hill, together we can watch it build in size or fall apart. Cost is, only the time we care to lend.
As for the number game, if all you care about is taxes, I guess you are right, but the city is more than taxes.
But what is the equation when you throw in Community Currency that went up 400% in the past three years? That we have been able to bring in a University for 2,000 students. That we can get your driveway and groceries for 30% off. That for signing on to a website you can get free coffee once a month and free beer every other? That advertising in a local paper with a $50 ad can save you as much as $800 a month off your business expenses?
It is not hype. I feel safe in my home, and had a blast this summer. To be honest I didn't have time to worry about the taxes though we protested ours. Besides, the city has to pass the next three tax hikes no matter what.
.
Funny, just got your message and was writing about another interesting point you brought up.
"I don't expect Tom Jordan or Tom George to say "huh, Juris has got something there. Why didn't we think of that?" If I did list 24 such companies then it would be well why don't you discuss it with them and why don't you have them come in... because I'm an insurance agent just chatting online. "
Why not? Why not at least try?
What is instead of "just an insurance agent" you had an idea, threw it on the table of a bunch of radical thinkers, that had insight in everything from starting businesses to running libraries, from understanding banks, loans and finance, to understanding the radical solid concepts of alternative currency, promoters, designers, retired, young, old, green, and not so green, republican and democrat, retired politicians, and current, get them to fine tune it, vet it, and tinker, then present to the city, that realistically looks at the plan, and sees how it fits, and if it adds, subtracts or is so balanced one can try just to try without fear.
Welcome to the VAL and the tool we like to call the Lakewood Observer Project. Where a person is encouraged to bring ideas to the discussion and get them kicked around and changed as intelligent people from every walk of life can have a stab. Bring it, we will respect you, as you respect us. If it has a chance, that person can get help, like minded workers, finances, publicity and more at no cost, no tracking of email for sale to others, all we ask is that if you choose to post, use your real name. You do not have to sign in to read our discussion boards.
A very wise member of the Observation Deck once said about the VAL "it is not right that a small group decides for everyone." I laughed, as the group is as big as anyone that wants to take the time and throw it out, or help with their knowledge/experience base, it becomes very powerful and works so fast it is silly.
An interesting occurrence that actually happened offline because of the "rumor" aspect was The Thai/Somali Refuges. At 12:35 the rumor was heard and dropped into the "machine." "300 Thai Refugees speaking Mai, we coming in to fill Section 8 homes" By 12:50 it was realized that Mai was spoken in Somalia. By 1:10 there was establishment of a high influx of Somalia Refugees into America. By 1:17 it was established that Catholic Charities was the largest mover of Somali Refugees. 1:20 Catholic Charities was known to have meetings in Ohio. Now the question was, what is the impact of 300 Somali Refugees on a city. Is it good, bad, or the safe bet. What are the implications of 80 Somali Refugees on our schools, businesses, etc. By 2:30 all the answers were in, digested, and put away. Just a rumor, but a fun test.
The City of Lakewood, the Lakewood School System, and others cannot afford this kind of thought process. They do not have to it is already here for free. A person that loves Lakewood and Lakewood Park takes the time to build a thesis around a redesign, what falls out is so breathtaking, no one believe a person so young... It does not matter, an idea on the table to get dissected. Developers, bankers, fanciers, park users all have a chance to find the good and the bad. This one makes it to council, this one was a winner. Savannah saved this city $60,000 at the least. I still think it is only one of three plans I have heard of in 10 years that make sense and has no downside.
Another problem with city thinking and one of the big problems with Savannah's plan, the city had just done a $30,000 study, and had committed to that. It would have been insane to throw away $30,000 in study and a new entrance. At the Observer, we can turn on a dime.
You are not Shawn Juris Insurance Agent her. Here you are Shawn Juris, fellow Observer of the Stone Cutters, brother to the Royal Family of Bystanders, and sister to the Delightful Dancing Daughters of Delphi. Here your idea like every idea and thought is a small pebble sent rolling down a hill, together we can watch it build in size or fall apart. Cost is, only the time we care to lend.
As for the number game, if all you care about is taxes, I guess you are right, but the city is more than taxes.
But what is the equation when you throw in Community Currency that went up 400% in the past three years? That we have been able to bring in a University for 2,000 students. That we can get your driveway and groceries for 30% off. That for signing on to a website you can get free coffee once a month and free beer every other? That advertising in a local paper with a $50 ad can save you as much as $800 a month off your business expenses?
It is not hype. I feel safe in my home, and had a blast this summer. To be honest I didn't have time to worry about the taxes though we protested ours. Besides, the city has to pass the next three tax hikes no matter what.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama