City has money to burn!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn


There is very little emotion in my numbers, or in the facts. I only get upset when Beck takes the time to blast Lakewood in the paper, while claiming to love and want to stay here.

As Jeff points out, while ONLY 25%(is that number even accurate?) come from Lakewood, the other 75% come from ten or more different cities? Can Lakewood afford to underwrite their education? Maybe it is time to let Westlake underwrite the 25% that come from Lakewood?

The fact is maybe we cannot afford the Beck, and maybe no one can, but as you said, we certainly can not afford to throw money away. If your numbers are right, then the Beck could afford to do the study.

As far as building up the name? How hard is it to build the reputation of an Arts group that is losing money? Also that reputation was built on the backs of thousands of Lakewoodites, including my family. Dare I say none of them expected their blood, sweat and tears would be turned into a weapon against the city the loved?

This equation is very easy to do. the answer always comes back the same. "good luck I hear great things about Crocker Park."


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[Donald Farris]

Hi,
I agree with much of what's brought up in this discussion. Here's what I see as the facts:

1). The Beck Center for whatever reason can not afford to maintain the property the City gave them. Who was Mayor back then? Was any of our existing City Council on Council back then? I have to ask: Why did you GIVE a City asset away? Why would you have not leased the property to the Beck Center for a $1 a year? Then you would have not aided in funding the move of the Beck Center out of Lakewood. I ask my representatives on City Council to ask the Beck Center to now correct that problem by forming a bill calling for the Beck Center to return the building, given to them, back to the city. As part of that, lease it back to them at $1 a year. Once the city owns the property again, we can discuss how public funds could handle the repair of the buildings.

2). Lakewood loves community art and will always have it. The question before us is whether the Beck Center will be a part of Lakewood's future. Our location is prime and a theater here will do well.

3). Without the City government addressing the first item, I do not see how our Council could back spending more city funds on a group that's showing such little loyalty to a city that has been home for so long.

[dl meckes]

Good points, Jeff.

Mr. Call, I fail to see how this administration or the previous administration is somehow at fault for what's happening with Beck Center.

There are a number of affecting factors at work here and Jeff points out,

Stark is obligated to provide an arts center

.

City hall has to answer to a lot of constituents, like the schools, the Chamber of Commerce and the businesses and taxpayers of Lakewood, so I would certainly expect that they must look at the situation.

If the study is going to look at Beck Center operations and usage (etc.), then even if the Beck moves, that study will be useful for the next organizations that might consider moving to Lakewood.

Of course there's a lot to lose if and when Beck Center moves.

There is an assumption, unfounded, I think, that nothing will fill the vacuum. But I don't think it will harm Lakewood's economic development to study the situation, and it might provide the city with good information to take to other Arts providers.

[Jim O'Bryan]

DL

You and I have known each other for decades over that 40+ years for me, and 28+ years for you in this friendship, we generally agree about everything. But this time it is not going to happen.

The second that the $$$$ were announced, this became a success or failure of this administration.

Also I am curious what a $20,000 already budgeted study will find? At least a majority of it will deal with The Beck, so how much does that leave for studying "whatever comes after it" on land we do not own?

For the record, I think Tom Jordan is a very qualified bright city planner. My respect for Mayor Tom George knows no bounds, ask Joan who I am a pimp for. But this no longer has any upside, as proven by todays PD. Even when we offer to spend money on them, they turn it into an ad for Crocker Park.

.


PS - DL if the mayor and the city must answer to the consitients, then let's put it to a vote. I have to think Beck's 25% from Lakewood, would not fill a room.Do we want to pay for schools, and new taxes to fund the Beck? Seems like an easy enough question.

Maybe the question should be, do the schools want $25million to fund art programs?



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[dl meckes]

DL

You and I have known each other for decades over that 40+ years for me, and 28+ years for you in this friendship, we generally agree about everything. But this time it is not going to happen.

Right. There are a lot of things upon which we do not agree.

The second that the $$$$ were announced, this became a success or failure of this administration.

I disagree. I simply do not see it that way. I don't think there's always one thing that sinks or floats an administration. And if there is a "one thing," I don't think this is it.

Also I am curious what a $20,000 already budgeted study will find? At least a majority of it will deal with The Beck, so how much does that leave for studying "whatever comes after it" on land we do not own?

First, we don't know what the study is looking at, so we're both talking out of a particular portion of our anatomy.

However, if the study goes into who uses the facility and how the facility is used, then we can break out a lot numbers. Are most of the users music students? Theater goers?

Would that information be helpful to anyone or would you only look at it in terms of the Beck?

If the study looks at problems with the facility, then we may have an idea of what would be needed for a different group and different facility. We might learn what physical spaces would be necessary for a potentially successful program - wherever it might be located.

For the record, I think Tom Jordan is a very qualified bright city planner. My respect for Mayor Tom George knows no bounds, ask Joan who I am a pimp for. But this no longer has any upside, as proven by todays PD. Even when we offer to spend money on them, they turn it into an ad for Crocker Park.

For disclosure purposes: my support of Mayor George is very well known and I also consider Tom and Jane friends. I believe Lakewood is lucky to have Tom Jordan. And as you mention, you and I are long-time friends but also have a separate relationship concerning the Observer and the Deck.

None of us agrees on everything or sit around singing Kumbayah. Not even close.

The way the Beck Center has traditionally mishandled their operation is nearly surpassed by their mishandling of any outgoing communication.

PS - DL if the mayor and the city must answer to the constituents, then let's put it to a vote. I have to think Beck's 25% from Lakewood, would not fill a room.Do we want to pay for schools, and new taxes to fund the Beck? Seems like an easy enough question.

Maybe the question should be, do the schools want $25million to fund art programs?

I think those are two questions and I'm pretty sure that I don't fully understand the dog that the schools have in this hunt.

What do you think should be put to a vote? And what information are we missing? Can we learn anything helpful about that operation before they go?

[Jim O'Bryan]

The second that the $$$$ were announced, this became a success or failure of this administration.

I disagree. I simply do not see it that way. I don't think there's always one thing that sinks or floats an administration. And if there is a "one thing," I don't think this is it.

DL


I was not talking of this sinking any administration. Certainly Mayor George and the Building.Planning Department have done enough that the failure to retain the Beck Center would not even have been a blip on the radar.

But the second MTG announced the study, he took ownership of the dilema.

While neither of us understand what is really in play, I think we both can agree that a bidding war never plays well for Lakewood.



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[dl meckes]

On that, we do agree.

[Lynn Farris]

The largest mistake that was made was not made by this administration, but by previous ones - that was giving assets of the city away. They could have leased them for $1.00 a year as Jim has often mentioned.

I know that Jim and I disagree about this - but do you think a City Manager would have known that this is disasterous? Would we have been better protected as a city by a city manager?

I still think it is possible to talk the Beck Center into synergy. Leave most of the employees here in Lakewood and open a second school/theatre in Westlake if they want. Then service both sites. We have proven that we do support the schools. I sure if they commit to staying in Lakewood - even if they have 2 sites, that the citizens of Lakewood will support them. But why in the world would we support them with them saying in the papers that they are going to move?

[Stan Austin]

Lynn--- I have to think that a city manager, especially one from the outside, would have been uniquely blind to this kind of event. An outside, uninformed manager would require months too learn about all the unique features of Lakewood. Then, additional months would be required to become educated as to the nuances of neighboring cities and the major regional actors who are playing a part in the discussion of Beck's future.

Say, for instance, a County Arts Tax passes. When it comes to distribution of the revenues who would the Commissioners listen to--- a homegrown mayor with longstanding ties to the county and community or some unknown manager?

I think the discussion on this thread has certainly served to bring out the existing problems with the relationship between Beck and Lakewood and maybe that exposure will eventually lead to a better future for both.

Stan

[Ryan Patrick Demro]

At Monday's meeting of City Council, I moved to send the grant proposed by MTG to the Comittee of the Whole. This was not in an effort to kill the assistance, but rather to change its form. A grant is FREE MONEY, nothing else. I got lots of them to go to college and don't have to pay a single cent back. The Beck should not get the same deal.

The Beck Center is already $20K in the hole to the City in the form of a forgivable loan. If the place goes under we have a lien on the property, but should we hand them another $20K with a recall of the first $20K as a threat to keep them here? Needless to say, my math must be fuzzy, because I don't see the stick that Tom Jordan (TJ) claims is there. TJ to the BECK: We gave you $20K a while back, now we will give you another $20K, no strings attached in terms of payback, and if you leave we recall the first $20K. RPD to ALL: Doesn't that leave us $20K in the red anyway? Isn't our goal to retain the Beck and our assets? Maybe that is just the thinking of some 27 year old punk who speaks in vagueries (according to MTG).

The $20K should be a loan plain and simple. The Beck stays and they can repay the loan, they go and they repay the loan.

[dl meckes]

Ryan-

I'm probably wrong about the amount, but I thought the Beck owed the city (in the neighborhood of) $40k.

The city was asked to forgive the loan, but the Loan Approval Board declined to do so. They did decide to forgive the ongoing interest being accumulated. At the time that decision was made, the Board was aware that the City was not first in line to be repaid.

I don't know what the proposed study hopes to accomplish, but if the City is looking at the financial impact of the Arts in Lakewood, including the Beck Center, then I think that's a reasonable pursuit.

[Ryan Patrick Demro]

DL-

This is the tag on the resolution.


28. RESOLUTION NO. 8128-06 – A RESOLUTION authorizing the Mayor or his designee to provide a development retention grant in an amount not to exceed Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) to the Beck Center for the Arts to be used for consulting services to facilitate the analysis of its physical plant for retention of the Beck Center for the Arts in Lakewood. (Pg. 43)

This money is being used to examine the structure and changes that could be made to make it more efficient. At least that is my understanding. We were never told that it would examine the financial impact of the arts. I support this cause, but not the financial tool used to further it. There is no reason that this could not be a forgivable loan. The only reason that has been put forth (by Tom Jordan) is that "we don't normally do it this way." Well, I think we are in an age where it time we consider changing our mode of operations.

[Joan Roberts]

Wait. I'm holding my head in disbelief. Please tell me I'm misunderstanding.

The Beck Center board has already told us we need to sink several million into the facility or they take the Westlake offer.

Now we're going to GIVE them $20,000 for a consultant's review of the "physical plant.?" Does Beck get to pick the consultant themselves, or does the city have a vote?

Come on. What do you REALLY think that $20,000 report, commissioned by the very people threatening to leave but this time, funded by the people who are going to be left high and dry, is going to say?

Give me half the money (winter's coming and I've never been to Hawaii) and I'll tell you exactly the same things the "consultants" will!

And Stan, bless your heart, but I'm not exactly sure that there really NEEDS to be a "relationship" between the Beck and the city. It's a private, non-profit organization, not a government entity, and it should stay that way. Is there a "relationship"(officially) betwen the city and the Y(about the closest analogy I can think of?)

We all put signatures on our posts, and most of them are for fun. Really look at mine this time.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Ryan

What if we combine the last couple plans?

Is it possible we could turn the property into a world class parking lot?

If I remember correctly, we had a chance to spend $150,000 for a parking lot that would offer the city a return on it's investment of upwards to $2,500 a year. This would seem to be a far wiser deal, than what is being kicked around.


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[Kenneth Warren]

First, I want to commend Councilman Demro for entering into the LO Deck on this hot topic.

BECK CENTER BUILDING PROGRAM?

The key question one must ask is whether or not the Beck Center has written a building program that states the functional requirements, including square footage for the services planned for delivery in the improved facility.

That is the pivotal issue from any reasonable and serious perspective on space needs and requirements.

WHO HAS READ ANY SUCH BUILDING PROGRAM?

If the building program has been written to the satisfaction of the Beck Board, has Mr. Jordan or the Mayor read it and determined that an analysis of current facility (or some other Lakewood space?) for retention of the Beck Center can be made given the requirements set forth in the building program?

Or is the $20K for analysis to be spent on a building program for the Beck Center that will let us all know the Lakewood facility is deficient?

A POLITICAL MOVE - THE PLEASURE OF THE GOODBYE KISS

While these are all reasonable questions about the management process and premises guiding Beck Center and City Hall, there is also the political playing field.

Despite how poorly the issue is playing in the press and on the LO Deck, it might simply be a political move for the Mayor's team to propose such an expenditure and retention analysis, giving the Council the pleasure of the goodbye kiss to Beck Center.

On a farther out tangent, which is where one must go in the absence of good answers from the agents involved, one could speculate the retention analysis paid by Lakewood is a way to afford the Beck Center more leverage with Westlake and obtain the planning director a seat at the table of whatever economic development scenarios might unfold.

BOTTOMLINE

It seems to me the scrambling around the retention and cash cow issues may be masking the absence of the building program and planning that would let everybody know the needs put forth by the Beck Center.

Hence the confusion.

Council must ask to see the building program and determine whether or not Lakewood is a functional player in the future proscribed.

If the Beck Center, without having written a building program, is simply trying to catch sugar daddies in a bottle to help them realize an improved facility somewhere, then it's not time to write a check, and maybe it's time for the goodbye kiss.

Of course, the question of spending the money on the Beck Center can be a simple black and white answer given the limited resources of City Hall.

Kenneth Warren