Where's the Enforcement?

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

The enforcement is the same as always from what I hear.

The teachers will not, and there are not enough principles.

The problem is they should be called dress guidelines.

Dress codes have never been proven to do anything but make kids miserable.

Didn't work in the 50s, 60, 70, 80, 90s and now naight naught group.


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[Suzie Dean]

I have a daughter that is in the sixth grade at Horace Mann. I just asked her if she has seen anyone being sent to the office for what they were wearing. She had said no. I asked if anyone has been wearing hoodies in any of her classes and she also said no.

I drop her off at school every day and I haven't seen anyone that was dressing inappropriately. I haven't seen the need to do any enforcing. But then again this is only the fourth day of school. So ask again in a couple of weeks.

School is a place for learning, not a fashion show.

[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

(I deleted 25 paragraphs, this one is near and dear to my heart)

I am much older than you, but can address many of these problems going back through Ivor's time machine. The examples you site, seem like parental problems to me, not school problems.

Back in the 60s and 70s, Lakewood High was filled with little hippie girls that had belts wider than their skirts. Minis were not the style, micro minis were the style. Many wore and even produced ZigZag Man T-shirts, rode bikes in the hall, and generally had what you would call anti-social behavior on different levels. Grades were up, students going on to college were up, civic involvement was up, crime was down, security was limited to mundane tasks. It would seem to me the only thing that has changed is parents have allowed their children to go feral.

I thought the promise was:
City Hall - Safe Clean
Schools - Educate provide activities
Parents - Parent

Clothing seems to fall under "parenting"

Which do you think is the larger disturbance. The dress, or the dress code? Ask Ivor, I believe the Lakewood Times dedicates at least two articles a year to the draconian dress code (that is rarely enforced). Stop a kid, ask your daughter the ten biggest problems in school. I would be shocked if the dress code wasn't higher on the list than the clothes people are wearing.

Allowing a child to dress the way they want under their parents supervision is a tremendous tool that can be used by teachers and counselors to learn about that child. Their likes, their dislikes, their world, at home, at school, and off hours. This window is priceless.

To me the crime is that they announce these dress codes. Then every year when they are not enforced, they look like they are failing. I believe that the School Board knows the teachers have NO interest in enforcing the dress code. I might be mistaken but I think it might have been a union official that explained, "not in our contract." This leaves the enforcement to a handful of people. What follows next is selective enforcement, lawsuits, and a larger disturbance than the glimpse, the young boy caught. A simple letter to parents asking that they send their children to school in appropriate clothing, would do wonders for everyone.

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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

I wont debate the pros and cons of student dress codes with you as we will get nowhere fast.

I will, however, ask if you recall the parent/teacher/student 'summits' on school issues. It was not only the parents that were concerned - the STUDENTS were concerns as well and strongly advocated for more agressive enforecement of existing policies. THEY felt that is was an issue and in more than one meeting made it clear through their discussion that they felt that stronger enforecement of the dress code would create and foster a better learning environment for all students.

It was in those meetings that the schools agreed that they would work on better enforcement of the existing policies. Those were the promises that I am referring to.

And that, if nothing else, is good enough for me to continue to believe that is something that the school should address.

Charyn

Charyn

It was at those meeting the school board was forced to overreact to a problem is a desperate attempt to quiet some squeaky wheels.

There is a delusional thought process that if we can make our schools like Montessori or Charter Schools our worries are over. Well Charter schools are coming up worse than public schools, and the success of Montessori schools have waaaaaaay more to do with parental involvement than how they teach.

It is nothing more than pass the blame game.

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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Suzanne Metelko]

In an ideal world children's issues should fall under parenting. Unfortunately we're living in a much less ideal world than we used to. Currently public schools are handling such "parenting" roles as sex education, breakfast and lunch, before and after school care, diversity training, self esteem issues, manners, etc. The issue of dress is a lot less about the clothes and alot more about the power than it used to be and I think that can interfer with some of the other "parenting" issues that schools have to deal with. However, enforcement is the place to begin - teachers and staff have to buy in.

Jim, when we were at LHS the drug culture was out of control. One reason was that we had a lot less data about the adverse effects. We should be open to understanding that things change. The generation that struck down the dress code and successfully lobbied for a smoking pit never envisioned 2006. Heck they could barely envision 1973.

Dick Boyd said that the equation for a successful student used to be, "you send us a well behaved, well rested, well fed child and we'll send you a well prepared student". It's an old equation. What's the new one?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Sorry but Ill go with the children on this one - I/they/ we dont want to see exposed genitalia or graphic drug, sex, or alcohol in our schools.

Sad day when the kids are wiser than the adults.

Charyn.

Charyn

Great framing of the discussion. If you did not advocate Montessori, then we can agree that I NEVER advocated exposed genitalia or graphic drug, sex, or alcohol in our schools.

This gets tough, I know enough about you to know that you are an involved parent. We are not talking about you or your daughter.

But this comes to another issue. I was at a School Summit, with H20, League of Cities, where they were showing problems through sketches. A member of Health and Human Services turned to me and said, "Isn't it great to see our kids get involved." I mentioned I wasn't that worried about the honor students, that were there. I worried more about the ones that were not there, and how to get them there.

Dress codes, the topic, are not the answer, merely camouflage to the real problem.

Not advocating or bragging, but Life Magazine 1971, "Lakewood High easiest school to buy drugs in." Though I still wonder how the hell they came up with that tidbit. Scores up, college enter higher, crime less, teenage crime way less. It all points to the parents, would seem to be the only real influence that has changed. Again I am not talking about you and Suzie.

When we were called to Kaufman Park to seek out BAD KIDS, it was exactly the same as 1971, only the clothes and style of cars had changed.

Sad day when the kids are wiser than the adults.

It's even a sadder day when the adults listening to a select small group, generalize, throw their hands in the air and admit it.


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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

If you did not advocate Montessori, then we can agree that I NEVER advocated exposed genitalia or graphic drug, sex, or alcohol in our schools.

Fair enough.

So when girls are wearing clothing that is exposing their hindquarters or breasts, or any child is wearing a shirt with a beer logo on it, or flip-flops that are a hazard to themselves (and possible others) what do you propose should occur?

Charyn

ps - Sorry - but when that small group is a group of interested and involved students I dont think it is a sad day when adults listen to them - I think it is a day to celebrate. In this I have a feeling we will need to agree to disagree.

Charyn

I find it hard to believe that a beer logo shirt is hazard to anyone.

I also find it surprising that you of all people would be so upset with "The Visionary Alignment for Lakewood." A group of over 100 or more, that are very active in all aspects of Lakewood being not representative of "Lakewood." But this small group of students, represent all of the schools and kids.

I have a call in with our token student and multiple award winner and damn fine individual American Ivor to jump in on this conversation.

Again, I am not pointing the finger at you, but at the general population. I know what Ken Warren goes through at the library, as parents drop their kids off for "baby sitting" as they hit McCarthy's.

Also we have the other strange problem, where people are asking the schools and the city to do more and more on less and less. At some point the math falls apart, as do the functionality of the schools and city hall.

So let me get this straight, "How a child dresses is the responsibility of the schools?"

PS- Do you know where the no-writing rule comes from and why?

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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Charyn Compeau]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

If I recall correctly, the rationale was that it would prevent the 'logo' competition and make enforecement easier.

~C

Charyn


You might want to check on the "Marty" shirts. Marty was the president or vice-president of SADD.


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