Some thoughts about a Lakewood Iraq War Protest

[Scott MacGregor]

On 6/24/06 , there was a ragtag Iraq War protest in front of the Armed Forces Recruitment Center at Detroit and Lakeland Aves.

Their banner read: "The Government Lies and People Die", among other things. There were about ten people, kids in their late teens , early 20's mostly, beating drums and doing what they could to attract the attention of passerby cars and pedestrians.

This demonstration sure brought back the memories of protests past, the early 70's, Kent State,etc., where ragtag kids of another generation in their late teens and early 20's played a big role in stopping a war that was started on a lie, fueled by the propaganda of Cold War fearmongers, and killed over 55,000 of America's best and brightest.

At the end of that war, it seemed like no one could remember why we fought it in the first place as no promised dominoes had fallen as a result of its loss, and no effect was registered on the everyday lives of the American people, except for the brave soldiers who did the fighting and those who lost a son or daughter as a result of it.

So, because I remember my history, especially history that took place in my lifetime, I do not easily dismiss the sounds of drumbeats or the messages on placards held by a ragtag group of kids, who have the guts to stand isolated on a Lakewood street , and protest another war that was started on a lie and fueled by the propaganda of fearmongers.

For better or worse, history has shown that ragtag kids have the ability to shape and change the world.

Lest we forget, whether you are "Red" or "Blue", this is what America is all about.

[ryan costa]

We are there for the Oil, Scotty. Not just the oil there, but the oil in surrounding regions. The Nations we buy most of our merchandise from will be able to offer far more in trade for the oil pretty soon.

By keeping the region on the cusp of civil war, the Royals and provisional governments we are in bed with will continue inviting U.S. Support: After all, they enjoy vacationing here much more than in India or China. In exchange they offer us favorable arbitrary trade agreements.

Would policing the region be done more successfully and cheaply by a million Indian or Chinese foot patrolmen? Probably. But that isn't the effect we need. We need indefinite instability.

If you want to protest the war, come down to the High Growth sunbelt and protest the 8-lane roads, the 10 lane roads, and the the mega churches and giant malls and shopping centers and McMansions.

[Mark Crnolatas]

When I got back from the service...it was on a Thursday night, back in the early 70s. I spent the night proudly wearing my uniform, and visting all the friends I could, that I had before I left. The weather was like today, awesome.
On friday, again, I visited with more friends, and tried to cram in one day what I missed and fell asleep thinking about so many times. At night, LHS was having a football game. I went out, again in my uniform, looking more ironed, spit shined, standing tall, than my best dress uniform day in the service.
I made a rolling stop at a corner, and my now good friend , back then an aquaintance, Officer Tom O'Grady pulled me over. After talking a few minutes about what we had in common while overseas, I went on to the football game which again, I missed. I went inside LHS football field. The weather was again awesome. The night air one of those refreshing nights where you want to breathe deeply a few times just to feel that "something". You know, like this morning? I could smell the hotdogs from up in the stand. The band was playing, the crowd was great on both sides of the field. I was feeling tall, proud and so very very glad to be home.
I thought, if all these people had seen what I saw, but forget it, forget it, let it go and have a ball tonight.
The time came for the band, that I played in before I graduated, to play the Star Spangled Banner, and for the flag to be raised. I was invited by the band director to play too. I was handed an instrument by a cute new bandmember. I played, and at the end the crowd roared as it always had,
the air electric with the game about to start, and by habit, pure habit as I had done a thousand times, in my sharp decorated uniform, hard earned beret, and spit shined and detailed, I snapped a sharp knife-edged salute to the flag standing up at attention, while everyone else had sat quickly down, there I stood for just a second more, noticing I was standing, so I quickly sat down after recoving from my salute.

Then the boos started. I thought best to leave. On the way down the stands, I was pelted with those hot dogs, ketchup and mustard and all that crap all over my uniform, by the time I pushed my way through the crowd to the Bunts Ave exit, I was spit on, at least a dozen times, and called baby killer, torturer, and other vile crap. This from the people I dreamed about, the whole scene from out of some bad movie that hadn't been made yet.
I never had done any of that. I hadn't said a word. All I was guilty of, was saluting our flag. Those people had a right to protest, yes, but can you possibly wonder how I felt?
I drove home, threw my uniform down in a bag that would go to the laundry, and put on some "regular clothes". I drove down to the docks, in the valley and sat on the rock rail overlooking the river and just stared, my mind both racing and then thinking nothing.
What had I done that all those people would do that to me? I just did what I had to do. I sat all night and a police officer spotted me, He told me the park closed at 11 but after a few minutes, since he had recently come home too, he said, "I have to lock the gate, so take off after it opens up again, ok?" I sat until the sun rose. Colder now, and still in a fog of thought.
I got in my car, went home and slept for maybe 12 or 14 hours. Then time resumed.

Does protesting really mean that much? I guess it does to some. However, don't we have some people here that came home from Iraq?

dl ......Sorry for the long story. If it doesn't belong here, or if its going to cause a long thread on pros and cons of war which has been done over and over on here....delete it or move it or something, if you want. I guess I just had an urge to write something this a.m.

[dl meckes]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Mark.

Your post and you belong here.

Behaving in such a manner towards our troops is unconscionable.

But I remember the outrage when stories finally came out about incidents the Mei Lai massacre. Feelings ran deep.

Back then, one of the only things people felt they could do was blame individuals because there was nothing people could do to stop the government's actions.

When we hear about such things today (if we hear about them) we again feel helpless. The steam-roller moves ahead and it seems that there's nothing we can do to stop it.

Since I participated in anti-war rallies where I walked side-by-side with returned Viet Nam veterans, I could not react in that manner. I blamed the government, not the soldiers.

My wish is that vets returning from other conflicts never meet the same reception that you and other Viet Nam vets saw.

You fought in our name. You deserved better.

[Stan Austin]

Mark--- Thanks for telling us about that experience. Luck of the draw that you went and I didn't.
I finally visited the Wall a couple of years ago. Found the name of my classmate-- Andy McCartney. Saw it. Touched it. Andy always was walking the halls with us before homeroom.
I cried. Just couldn't hold it in out there in public.

What you experienced was unconscionable but remember how we were lied to.
And now we flash forward 35 years. At least we have learned the decencies of protesting. Honor the troops but question those that sent them.
Unfortunately the same generation that was tricked, should have learned are the very same ones who now got us in this twisted mess.
Sounds like is was a ragtag bunch who were demonstrating yesterday.
I think I should have been there.
Stan

[Scott MacGregor]

Mark,

You make a good point about those times. Targeting the men and women that fought in the Vietnam era or otherwise served in the military, calling them "baby killers", etc. was a horrible injustice.

What many of the protesters of that era failed to recognize was that it is the soldiers who know more about peace than anyone.

I blame the people and politicians who put the soldiers into Vietnam based upon lies, without a clear mission, without the will to fight a "winnable" war, and who politically, and in many ways literally abandoned the soldiers when the war was over. That was a disgrace that should never happen again.

However, it is happening again Mark. The soldiers are once again fighting a war that is about something other than what they were told, that is not well planned, and has no exit strategy. It is happening again.

There is a way to stop this war without victimizing the warriors .

It can be done by letting the unadulterated truth get through to the American people and not allowing either side of the equation to use American fighting men and women as pawns in some giant geopolitical chess game.

I also believe that Vietnam Era Veterans are uniquely qualified to lead that fight.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Hmm....Here's an out of the box idea for the LO......
What about the LO having a journalist and camera person willing to GO to Iraq...and get some interviews, photos etc. Since I don't know a thing about such journalism expenses etc, could that be feasable now? Say, get 10 interviews of both for's and against from the troops?

First hand information by people we sort of KNOW.

Could it be financed by some type of grant or something, or is that an expense that must ONLY be covered by the paper?

[dl meckes]

We don't have to go to Iraq to find out that Saddam didn't help orchestrate 9/11 or that there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Those were the reasons why the President said we had to go to war.

Our mission in Iraq was based on another set of criteria and it has changed since we got there.

[Grace O'Malley]

I was down in Columbus this weekend and saw protestors along High Street, just north of the OSU campus.

However, it wasn't student protestors, it was War Veterans. Older, grey haired men and women with big signs intoning against the war and Bush.

[Mark Crnolatas]

I have friends there now. 2 ex-employees of a business I had, security and investigations. Both are of opposite party members, 1 Democrat.the other Republican ..yet both have the same thing to say...and neither refer to party opnions or any of the things we all seem to be debating here...comfortable in our easy chairs....

Both tell me we need to be there, until the job is complete, and until Iraq is on it's own..or we'll lose a strategic key to oil...and unless our country wants to change that..and looking in our own city and Greater Cleveland only...we generally dont seem to mind driving dueleys that get 7 mpg...and SUVS etc....yet where would we be if we were suddenly cut off of oil from the mideast?


Im not talking politics here...I'm asking opinion based on that observation ...OIL ...for any future president..in my opinion...is going to have to base his/her decisions on oil ...and our ability to maintain our mideast source for it...for our present time.....let alone our future....