Phil-
Please read the links I posted. The known offenders are just the tip of the iceberg.
You can go to the county site and see pictures of registered offenders, their addresses and their pictures. The county also sends out notification if a registered sexual offender is employed near your home. You can print out those pictures and share them with your neighbors. Again, not all sexual offenders are child predators.
Educating yourself and your children about sexual predators who have never been caught is terribly important.
Again, using an alleged predator as an example, people thought he was great with children, a cool guy, etc. He passed background checks. He had no complaints from the programs where he worked with children.
The sad fact is that most people who abuse children are known and trusted by the children and their parents. Those people include relatives.
Sex Offenders
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
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Charyn Varkonyi
Hi Phil,
While I think that is a great idea - I do think that the high churn rate in rentals in some areas makes block-watch programs more difficult in those areas.
I have no doubt our street would be willing participants in a block watch program, but I am wondering if there are any ideas how we could help these programs take hold in those 'high churn' areas of Lakewood as well.
FFt
~Charyn
While I think that is a great idea - I do think that the high churn rate in rentals in some areas makes block-watch programs more difficult in those areas.
I have no doubt our street would be willing participants in a block watch program, but I am wondering if there are any ideas how we could help these programs take hold in those 'high churn' areas of Lakewood as well.
FFt
~Charyn
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
There's nothing wrong with doing a block watch program, and certainly we can all benefit from neighbors watching out for us, no matter what the danger.
But once again, we're working on the model of a stranger in a trench coat offering candy to little girls, and all the evidence we have shows the real predatory pedophilia is overwhelmingly an "inside job."
No block watch, or residency restriction, would have stopped the priests that molested all those kids. Or Uncle Joe from Mentor for that matter.
Assuming we flag the habitual offenders (which we do), the next step is to educate kids AND parents about how pedophiles really operate and what steps to take (without scaring kids into permanent states of xenophobic neurosis, I hasten to add).
More than 90 percent of abuse victims know their molester. In at least half the cases, it's a family member. If it's not a family member, it's a coach, youth leader, or not surprisingly, mom's boyfriend.
We can paint all convicted sex offenders a with permanent Day-Glo green paint and Uncle Joe will still be operating.
But once again, we're working on the model of a stranger in a trench coat offering candy to little girls, and all the evidence we have shows the real predatory pedophilia is overwhelmingly an "inside job."
No block watch, or residency restriction, would have stopped the priests that molested all those kids. Or Uncle Joe from Mentor for that matter.
Assuming we flag the habitual offenders (which we do), the next step is to educate kids AND parents about how pedophiles really operate and what steps to take (without scaring kids into permanent states of xenophobic neurosis, I hasten to add).
More than 90 percent of abuse victims know their molester. In at least half the cases, it's a family member. If it's not a family member, it's a coach, youth leader, or not surprisingly, mom's boyfriend.
We can paint all convicted sex offenders a with permanent Day-Glo green paint and Uncle Joe will still be operating.
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
Speaking of Block Watch programs, what does it take to set one up? I seem to remember being told at some point that Lakewood doesn't do them because 51% of the residents need to participate and getting the impression that it wasn't worth it. Any info would be appreciated. I'm sure I must have misunderstood. Always thought it was strange that a city wouldn't encourage its citizens to play a more active role.
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Phil Florian
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:24 pm
Joan, I totally agree with your point on education kids and that the risks for sexual abuse are going to be with people that you know and trust. Undisputable. My response was directly to Ryan's original complaint, though, namely the fact that he is concerned about the known sexual offenders that dot our fair city. I agree that only educating one's child is the first step in protecting them from unknown sexual predators.
But the original premise of this thread was that there are known predators all around us and what can we do about it? I simply wanted to offer another way to address it.
Charyn, I agree that it is difficult in "high churn" areas. Actually, the block just south of me would fit that description compared to my own street. There are lots of rentals, turnover and sadly a fair amount of police intervention (not as much lately so my suspicion is that it was probably due to one or two familes who are no longer there). Maybe this is a role that landlords should be expected to take? There is a significant difference between owner-occupied rentals and absent landlord situations. Maybe if landlords were expected to take more of an active role in their homes they could be expected to help out with developing programs and being a part of the continuity that would be lost as tenants move out.
One might argue that a more tight neighborhood might keep the churn to a minimum. Our first home when we moved back up to the area was on Lincoln in an owner-occupied rental. The street was a lot of rentals, many of them owner occupied, and there was a fair amount of cohesion to the neighborhood. Less folks moved out (we were the first in a while when we bought our current home), people gathered on porches to kibitz and chat and there was a general joy on the block that is lacking on some other blocks that have overgrown lawns, delapidated rentals, frequent police visitations and grumbling from the ones who stay. Probably a pie-in-the-sky idea but what else can we do? The offenders are already labeled and tatooing them with a scarlet "SO" isn't viable. Education of the children didn't seem to meet everyone's needs in the discussion and there really isn't much more that the police or city can legally do.
Our criminal justice system, for good or ill, assumes that if you are arrested, tried and convicted of a crime you are a criminal but after you go to jail, do your therapy or pay your fines you have "paid your dues to society" and are now, almost, at clean slate. Sure, evidence to the contrary shows us that sexual predators will more than likely ALWAYS be sexual predators but the law doesn't reflect that. County and local authorities don't have the resources to monitor every released sexual predator and really can only respond when they do something wrong, whicy by then is far, far too late. Lacking their assistance, we can only look to each other and this is why I think finding better ways to connect with neighbors, even if they are temporary, is better than hand wringing and finding more ways to label.
But the original premise of this thread was that there are known predators all around us and what can we do about it? I simply wanted to offer another way to address it.
Charyn, I agree that it is difficult in "high churn" areas. Actually, the block just south of me would fit that description compared to my own street. There are lots of rentals, turnover and sadly a fair amount of police intervention (not as much lately so my suspicion is that it was probably due to one or two familes who are no longer there). Maybe this is a role that landlords should be expected to take? There is a significant difference between owner-occupied rentals and absent landlord situations. Maybe if landlords were expected to take more of an active role in their homes they could be expected to help out with developing programs and being a part of the continuity that would be lost as tenants move out.
One might argue that a more tight neighborhood might keep the churn to a minimum. Our first home when we moved back up to the area was on Lincoln in an owner-occupied rental. The street was a lot of rentals, many of them owner occupied, and there was a fair amount of cohesion to the neighborhood. Less folks moved out (we were the first in a while when we bought our current home), people gathered on porches to kibitz and chat and there was a general joy on the block that is lacking on some other blocks that have overgrown lawns, delapidated rentals, frequent police visitations and grumbling from the ones who stay. Probably a pie-in-the-sky idea but what else can we do? The offenders are already labeled and tatooing them with a scarlet "SO" isn't viable. Education of the children didn't seem to meet everyone's needs in the discussion and there really isn't much more that the police or city can legally do.
Our criminal justice system, for good or ill, assumes that if you are arrested, tried and convicted of a crime you are a criminal but after you go to jail, do your therapy or pay your fines you have "paid your dues to society" and are now, almost, at clean slate. Sure, evidence to the contrary shows us that sexual predators will more than likely ALWAYS be sexual predators but the law doesn't reflect that. County and local authorities don't have the resources to monitor every released sexual predator and really can only respond when they do something wrong, whicy by then is far, far too late. Lacking their assistance, we can only look to each other and this is why I think finding better ways to connect with neighbors, even if they are temporary, is better than hand wringing and finding more ways to label.
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Lakewood, I reckon, has a high incidence of ALL kinds of offenders, not just sexual ones. And of course, the reason is the cheap rentals.
When you get out of prison, you're not heading for a 3,500-square-foot mini-manse in Strongsville.
I imagine if they posted armed robbers, check forgers, serial burglars, etc on the county site, you'd see a ton of Lakewood addresses, too. Probably more than sex offenders.
Fact of life.
Now if, as DL suspects, county probation staff is STEERING people here, that's a concern. The offense is almost immaterial. Do you want a three-time car thief on your block?
When you get out of prison, you're not heading for a 3,500-square-foot mini-manse in Strongsville.
I imagine if they posted armed robbers, check forgers, serial burglars, etc on the county site, you'd see a ton of Lakewood addresses, too. Probably more than sex offenders.
Fact of life.
Now if, as DL suspects, county probation staff is STEERING people here, that's a concern. The offense is almost immaterial. Do you want a three-time car thief on your block?
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Janet Popielski
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:28 pm
Recently, a sex offender moved two doors down from us and next door to a four year old girl. A neighbor and I received email notifications and immediately started to inform other parents on our street. We contacted the landlord who it turned out was not aware of the person's conviction and discussed the situation with the individual. After he discovered that the whole street knew of his crime he opted to move and the landlord released him from the lease.
He did not move very far but at least he isn't within a hundred yards of approximately 10 small children. I wondered how many other landlords don't bother checking a prospective tenants background. If another sex offender moves onto my street I will take the same approach. I don't think I'll be able to eliminate all 25 within the one mile radius of my house but even one or two is an improvement.
He did not move very far but at least he isn't within a hundred yards of approximately 10 small children. I wondered how many other landlords don't bother checking a prospective tenants background. If another sex offender moves onto my street I will take the same approach. I don't think I'll be able to eliminate all 25 within the one mile radius of my house but even one or two is an improvement.
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Jim O'Bryan
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Janet Popielski wrote:I don't think I'll be able to eliminate all 25 within the one mile radius of my house but even one or two is an improvement.
Janet
May I be so bold as to ask where this is? It would also be interesting to see how many of the 25 are true predators. (*see below)
This will become a huge problem in the coming years. I have stayed out of this, but your post makes me want to finally post the scary truth. I am sure this is true in all major cities.
A good friend recently bought a building on Lakeside or St. Clair near E21st street. He is really into urban warehouse living. We both lived in the warehouse district way before it was legal in the late 70s.
Anyway, as he is getting the rest of the building ready to be art lofts he spends every morning having a cup of coffee on top of the building. From there he can see the City Mission for homeless people. One day he did a search and found out that 46 sex offenders list their address as the City Mission. Then he watched more closely and noticed, every morning 100 or so homeless people, along with the offenders, filter out and disappear into the streets of Cleveland, every evening they drift back in. But we both doubt that a roll call is ever called, and that they could certainly disappear and reappear in Chicago, Erie, Columbus or wherever there are homeless shelters.
We theorized that this is because no one want to hire them, or have them living nearby. I completely understand this thought process. I wouldn't want them living in my neighborhood, especially with recent studies that would seem to prove, rarely if ever cured of the "need" to repeat.
Then we wondered which is better, having eyes on them, like in a neighborhood, where everyone knows who it is, or what it would appear is happening where they are housed at night, thrown out every morning, where they wander to ?, and answer to no one on a daily basis. As they disappear into the streets where do they go? Parks? Alleys? Schools? Bus Stops? No one knows.
I am not advocating finding them jobs, but it only makes sense to try to engage these people on every level so that they are always under watchful eyes to watch for changes in demeanor which could signal trouble.
* I grew up with two people that today would be labeled sex offenders, that legally were, but never would of harmed anyone. One when 18 got his 16 year-old girlfriend pregnant(30 years later they are still married with 5 kids), and another that went home with a woman from a bar that was "separated" from her husband. In the throws of passion the husband walked in, she screamed rape, my acquaintance served 3 years. Today he is well adjusted. Both would appear on a sexual predator lists today.
I can see where this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem and debate. I can see the stats changing. It would be interesting to compare the stats today to the stats of the 80s before the internet, and Sexual Predator Lists. I feel the pendulum could be swinging the other way, where it is strangers, and the net, instead of family, friends, teachers and priests.
FWIW
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Ms Popielski
Your story is a perfect illustration of the complexities and conundrums of this whole issue.
You were successful in keeping a sex offender away from your kids, but in the process, you and your neighbors put someone else's kids in the same jeopardy you sought to avoid. How do you know he's not within close range of 10 small children?
There is no neighborhood in Lakewood that is kid-free, to my knowledge, and this offender is going to wind up living somewhere.
Of course, you want to protect your children from possible harm, but what do you say to the parents in this person's NEW neighborhood. Tough darts? Can you say "better your kdis than mine" and still keep the moral high ground?
The point of the notification law was to make residents aware of offenders' whereabouts and take necessary precautions. It wasn't to incite residents to bounce the guys out of homes. If the offender in question is "released" from enough leases, he will eventually find a way to drop off the radar screen, and then no one, in your neighborhood, mine, or Mr. O's will be able to track him.
I certainly relate to your concern for the well-being of your children. Truth be told, I might have done the very same thing. But this is an issue, like most serious issues, that defies and quick and easy answer. And posturing politicians don't help matters either, I might add.
Your story is a perfect illustration of the complexities and conundrums of this whole issue.
You were successful in keeping a sex offender away from your kids, but in the process, you and your neighbors put someone else's kids in the same jeopardy you sought to avoid. How do you know he's not within close range of 10 small children?
There is no neighborhood in Lakewood that is kid-free, to my knowledge, and this offender is going to wind up living somewhere.
Of course, you want to protect your children from possible harm, but what do you say to the parents in this person's NEW neighborhood. Tough darts? Can you say "better your kdis than mine" and still keep the moral high ground?
The point of the notification law was to make residents aware of offenders' whereabouts and take necessary precautions. It wasn't to incite residents to bounce the guys out of homes. If the offender in question is "released" from enough leases, he will eventually find a way to drop off the radar screen, and then no one, in your neighborhood, mine, or Mr. O's will be able to track him.
I certainly relate to your concern for the well-being of your children. Truth be told, I might have done the very same thing. But this is an issue, like most serious issues, that defies and quick and easy answer. And posturing politicians don't help matters either, I might add.
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Janet Popielski
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:28 pm
Ms. Roberts,
I completely understand your point and I said the exact same things before the guy moved in down the street. When I was faced with the situation literally outside my front door I had to make a decision. The bleeding heart liberal in me said this guy paid his debt to society let him live in peace. The parent in me said protect my child and the other children in our small piece of the world. I considered all implications of contacting the landlord and figured it was the bare minimum I could. I could have put a for sale sign out that day instead, trust me it crossed my mind!
Let me state again the gentleman opted to move out. I did ask that the lease not be renewed for another year but the gentleman felt uncomfortable and left as soon as possible. It was my understanding that his crime was not that severe, he had every opportunity to come talk to my neighbors and I and we would have listened to him. We weren't going to throw stones at him or scream in his face, we would have listened.
Of course I worry that he might have moved next door to another child. If he has, I hope those parents have taken the time to sign up for the email notifications. I can't change the judicial system, I can't control the choices of these criminals, I can protect my little piece of Lakewood, and I will. As humans our first job is to protect our children. If every person had that as their top priority the world would be a much better and safer place.
To Mr. O'Bryan's comment on offenders being 18 years old dating a 16 year old. I know that is what has been written in the past, I think I even saw it quoted by Major George and that is incorrect. On the website it will sometimes list the actual charges, you can also call the sheriff's department to get more specific information on the charges. While it is true that the majority are not pedophiles, the majority are also not 18 year old dating 16 year old. Most of the crimes are not ones that should be taken lightly.
Lastly, Mr. O'Bryan asked where in Lakewood I reside that I would have 25 offenders within a one mile radius, it is near Warren and Alger which is a beautiful area with very affordable homes for young families. Try a search on any address in Lakewood and I'm sure you will get similar results.
Sorry to go on so long, this repsonse ended up much longer than I intended. I am not planning on posting again since I really have nothing more to offer.
I completely understand your point and I said the exact same things before the guy moved in down the street. When I was faced with the situation literally outside my front door I had to make a decision. The bleeding heart liberal in me said this guy paid his debt to society let him live in peace. The parent in me said protect my child and the other children in our small piece of the world. I considered all implications of contacting the landlord and figured it was the bare minimum I could. I could have put a for sale sign out that day instead, trust me it crossed my mind!
Let me state again the gentleman opted to move out. I did ask that the lease not be renewed for another year but the gentleman felt uncomfortable and left as soon as possible. It was my understanding that his crime was not that severe, he had every opportunity to come talk to my neighbors and I and we would have listened to him. We weren't going to throw stones at him or scream in his face, we would have listened.
Of course I worry that he might have moved next door to another child. If he has, I hope those parents have taken the time to sign up for the email notifications. I can't change the judicial system, I can't control the choices of these criminals, I can protect my little piece of Lakewood, and I will. As humans our first job is to protect our children. If every person had that as their top priority the world would be a much better and safer place.
To Mr. O'Bryan's comment on offenders being 18 years old dating a 16 year old. I know that is what has been written in the past, I think I even saw it quoted by Major George and that is incorrect. On the website it will sometimes list the actual charges, you can also call the sheriff's department to get more specific information on the charges. While it is true that the majority are not pedophiles, the majority are also not 18 year old dating 16 year old. Most of the crimes are not ones that should be taken lightly.
Lastly, Mr. O'Bryan asked where in Lakewood I reside that I would have 25 offenders within a one mile radius, it is near Warren and Alger which is a beautiful area with very affordable homes for young families. Try a search on any address in Lakewood and I'm sure you will get similar results.
Sorry to go on so long, this repsonse ended up much longer than I intended. I am not planning on posting again since I really have nothing more to offer.
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Thanks for the response, and again, I completely understand the predicament. I probably would have freaked myself.
And then, there is the other maddening question. If I have daughters who are 15 and 17, instead of 5 and 7, should I be more worried about pedophiles, serial rapists, or the smooth Lothario who can talk a good game, have his fun, and be on his way?
Gaaaaaa!
And then, there is the other maddening question. If I have daughters who are 15 and 17, instead of 5 and 7, should I be more worried about pedophiles, serial rapists, or the smooth Lothario who can talk a good game, have his fun, and be on his way?
Gaaaaaa!
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Jim O'Bryan
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- Contact:
Janet Popielski wrote:Sorry to go on so long, this repsonse ended up much longer than I intended. I am not planning on posting again since I really have nothing more to offer.
Janet
If your stats are correct and I have no reason to doubt them, it would underline what I mentioned. We have a very serious problem on our hands. That needs to be addressed immediately. I agree with Joan that it is tough to stop the family member, but I would hope they still get turned in.
The maternal instinct of a mother to protect her child or others I would have to think is paramount. I could never fault you for taking whatever steps you think you need to protect your child and family.
Open eyes and ears can do wonders. Brother Petty had worked online boards, schoolyards, coffee shops for over a decade using fake names and very weird personas. When forced to show his real name we were able to do the drill down and get the police to keep eyes on him. Everyone was amazed he had not been turned in before. Any sane person, would have seen him for what he was immediately.
Boths sides raise very important points, and it all is a mess. If we
I would hope you continue to post and take part. You have done much alreadyby throwing out this for discussion. We out number lurkers to members about 20 to 1. So that means this was read and digested by maybe as many as 3,000 people, plus it now stands suspended in space for others to read and make up their mind about.
But we have just started this discussion: Is this number as high in Rocky River, Bay, or Westlake? I would think a fairer comparison might be percentages instead of mileage. Do Cleveland's predators that are out of work and homeless spend their days at the mall in the suburbs?
Discussion is always the key before action.
Charyn
There is at least two groups that have been working on block watches for over a year.
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Charyn Varkonyi
Charyn
There is at least two groups that have been working on block watches for over a year
That is very cool. How are they addressing the areas of high rental turnover - are there ideas/strategies in place? Where are they promoting their thoughts ideas? Is the city backing and/ or helping in any way? Have these groups considered wiritng about their plans for the observer to garner support? Perhaps starting a forum thread to inspire and motivate people? Where can people get more information?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Michael Donnelly
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:09 am
Here are a few raw statistics and the link regarding sexual offenders from the Sheriff's office. The link is:
http://sheriff.cuyahogacounty.us/sou.asp
Bay Village 3 sexual offenders with 1 considered a sexual predator.
Rocky River 5 sexual offenders with 1 in prison
Westlake 8 sexual offenders
Fairview Park 11 sexual offenders with 1 in prison.
Lakewood 77 sexual offenders including half a dozen currently in prison, 7 sexual predators, 2 habitual and 3 with warrents issued.
O.K., pretty scary stuff until you look at Cleveland with 1747 sexual offenders, I couldn't stomach trying to breakout their numbers!
Maybe the concentrations arn't as high in Lakewood as I first thought. I would still like to see some information or comments about concentrations of offenders in our neighborhoods and what if any policies the parole board or law enforcement have in place. I also would like to know what percentage sexual offenders make up of the criminal population.
http://sheriff.cuyahogacounty.us/sou.asp
Bay Village 3 sexual offenders with 1 considered a sexual predator.
Rocky River 5 sexual offenders with 1 in prison
Westlake 8 sexual offenders
Fairview Park 11 sexual offenders with 1 in prison.
Lakewood 77 sexual offenders including half a dozen currently in prison, 7 sexual predators, 2 habitual and 3 with warrents issued.
O.K., pretty scary stuff until you look at Cleveland with 1747 sexual offenders, I couldn't stomach trying to breakout their numbers!
Maybe the concentrations arn't as high in Lakewood as I first thought. I would still like to see some information or comments about concentrations of offenders in our neighborhoods and what if any policies the parole board or law enforcement have in place. I also would like to know what percentage sexual offenders make up of the criminal population.
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
If you dig a littlle deeper, you'll find a more enlightening statistic.
Bay Village (3 offenders) has 16,000 residents and 450 renter-occupied housing units.
Rocky River (5 offenders) has 20,700 residents and about 2800 renter-occupied units.
North Olmsted (25 offenders) has 34,000 residents and 2750 renter-occupied units.
Lakewood (77 offenders)has 56,600 residents and 14,462 renter-occupied units.
At least 60 percent of the offenders on the Cuyahoga County site had apartment addresses. In reality, that number may have been higher.
If you're looking positive spin, Lakewood has fewer offenders per rental unit (187) than Bay Village (150) or North Olmsted (110)
What action this information suggests is up for debate, but it certainly falls into the "Facts of Lakewood Life' category.
Bay Village (3 offenders) has 16,000 residents and 450 renter-occupied housing units.
Rocky River (5 offenders) has 20,700 residents and about 2800 renter-occupied units.
North Olmsted (25 offenders) has 34,000 residents and 2750 renter-occupied units.
Lakewood (77 offenders)has 56,600 residents and 14,462 renter-occupied units.
At least 60 percent of the offenders on the Cuyahoga County site had apartment addresses. In reality, that number may have been higher.
If you're looking positive spin, Lakewood has fewer offenders per rental unit (187) than Bay Village (150) or North Olmsted (110)
What action this information suggests is up for debate, but it certainly falls into the "Facts of Lakewood Life' category.