Backyard trash pickup?

[Charyn Varkonyi]

I beleive that was an arbitrary number tossed earlier for conversation's sake.

Peace,
~Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

I beleive that was an arbitrary number tossed earlier for conversation's sake.

Peace,
~Charyn

It would seem that $10,000,000+ a year for garbage collection might be a bit high.

Avon Lake charges $24.00 a month for pick up, that would be $288.00 a year. Here at the office I pay $0.50 a sticker(bag).


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[Charyn Varkonyi]

It would seem that $10,000,000+ a year for garbage collection might be a bit high.

Well - that's for the deluxe service... where the really buff guy comes and cleans out the garbage cans, the garage, and the little box for you in shorts and a really tight T-shirt

Here at the office I pay $0.50 a sticker(bag).

Ahh... either you pay or I pay more... it's just in the form of taxes so it seems free.

Rule #1 of economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Peace,
~Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

Actual numbers are:

Last year's cost - $3,981,829
$139 a year per living unit
$2.67 a week

That would be like paying me $5.34 an hour to
to be a trash man.

I have to think, in the long run paying twice as much for the privilege of carrying my garbage to the curb, to blow into my neighbors yard. Is just not all the glamor some make it out to be.

Mayor Tom George is right. Sometimes the services offered by a city can make a difference. Cleaner, and puts a minimum of another $100+ a year in our pockets.

Thanks and a tip of the hat to city services.


peace

[Bill Call]

Actual numbers are:

Last year's cost - $3,981,829
$139 a year per living unit
$2.67 a week

That would be like paying me $5.34 an hour to
to be a trash man.


peace

I am a little skeptical about those numbers.

According to the budget book the line item refuse and recycling will increase from $4,187,808 in 2005 to $4,628,995 in 2006. That is a projected increase of 10% in one year. The refuse and recycling budget hasn't been 3.9 million since 2003.

It also seems that the numbers they gave you are based on 28,000 housing units. While that is the total number of housing units per the 2000 census that is not the total number of housing units served by the City. That number is closer to 16,000.

The actual cost per housing unit served seems to be closer to $300 per unit than $139 per unit.

In reference to the income tax and RITA:

The City is anticipating a budget of 1.2 million dollars for the new income tax department. That department will provide the service that Rita would provide for $400,000. This deserves its own post which I may or may not get around to.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill

I got my numbers from last year's budget. While the number of living units was 28,000, I find it odd that those would drop by 12,000 units to 16,000. I know we lost 3,000 residents last year, but where did the units go?

As for RITA let's start another thread. In talking with Finance I have never heard of a $1,000,000 gain projection. I know I said that at one time based on what could be possible with adding landlords. But my number was nothing more than a hunch. To be honest I do not think I ever saw a projection from the city on this. Merely a statement that it would be better for the city. I still maintain as long as we do not lose, the test could be worth it, if not back to Lovely RITA.

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[ryan costa]

If households and residences were responsible for carting their own trash to a few designated stations in the city...they would probably be less wasteful.

This could potentially be more efficient than maintaining a fleet of giant Garbage Trucks to methodically crawl from front lawn to front lawn.

[Bill Call]

Bill

I got my numbers from last year's budget. While the number of living units was 28,000, I find it odd that those would drop by 12,000 units to 16,000. I know we lost 3,000 residents last year, but where did the units go?

A.

The 12,000 units would be apartment buildings, commercial buildings with apartment buildings and condominiums. As far as I know those buildings pay for their own trash pick up.

The numbers I used came from budget numbers given to me by Vic Nogalo.

Given the population density in Lakewood I would guess that the per resident cost would be less than the per resident cost in Avon or Avon Lake if we went to a private rubbish firm.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

For purposes of discussion:

We are paying 34.23/qtr or 136.92/yr for our private firm collection, which includes hauling of yard waste, misc large items (furniture, etc) and the provision of 2 large containers - one for recycling and one for waste. Leaf collection is provided by the city (which I expect would be the case here as well).

It seems we have the budget amount for last year and the projection for this year. Bill - was the amount $4,187,808 the actual spend for 2005? (which indicates and over-run of 200k - if this is, in fact, true then I am curious about THAT as well)

In short -

What was the actual spend? Does that spend include an accrual for administrative services provided by the other divisions of the city (i.e. payroll)? If not, what is the estimated admin spend? How many business units does the division serve? And how many residential units does the division serve?

I would only consider comparing the actual residential spend divided by actual residential customers to ensure we are comparing apples to apples. The division does service our commercial area as well so an appropriate amount should be deducted from the total spend prior to comparison.

In other words, this needs a closer look before I could draw any conclusions - but at first blush it IS worthy of that look.

Oh - and in response to another excellent point: I would imagine that the city would (or should) only pursue a change if (1) the union contract is due for expiration or (2) the savings would substatially outweigh the cost of breaking the contract.

FFT

Peace,
~Charyn

[john crino]

Speaking of backyard trash pickup......

I've been doing one of those "informal surveys". LOL! I've been surprised how many people would give up that service if it would help stave off a tax increase.

Surprised, because I really thought it was one of those things that Lakewood held dear.

Many cities will distribute large wheeled receptacles to put on the treetlawn. Usually, these things are huge and can accomodate 4 30-gallon trash bags or more, more than enough for the average family.

It doesn't affect someone like me, in a mult-unit building with private pickup, but the reaction of Lakewood homeowners, particularly those who have lived in the vast majority of places who don't offer the service, was intirguing. Food for thought.

After moving to lakewood 2 years ago I found the backyard trash pickup an incredible waste of money,energy and peoplepower. Even more wasteful than the trucks,tractors,gasoline and people it takes to pick up the leaves in the fall.
A couple of items regarding trash on the curb. The city could require all trash to be in cans with lids as they do for apartment buildings and this would limit the blowing trash and the animal intrusions.
Also, I would suggest the city contract with a private hauler to do the entire city if it comes to privatizing the pickup. I lived in a city where each homeowner contracted with whatever hauler they chose and that resulted in garbage trucks coming down your street 6 days a week sometimes 2 or 3 times a day because each hauler had a differnet pickup day and time.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

My numbers came from final wrap for city. Not budget but actual numbers. But maybe they could be off?!

As for commercial building we get Lakewood trash but it is $.50 a bad as I mentioned. As other building on Detroit seem to have the same stickers I would think that runs true. As for apartments I have no idea. I believe that when I was on the GC we had BFI or someone come in. Not the city.

FWIW



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[Charyn Varkonyi]

Ahh--

So the 3.9 is the likely number to use! Now we only need to know what percentage of that cost is for commercial pick-up, what is for residential, and the number of each type of pick-up.

As for commercial vs. residential. I recall that the stickers cost .50 each - but that is obviously not how much it is costing the city (and therefore its taxpayers) to haul the trash. That raises the question, however, of how to treat the commercial end of the spectrum. If the businesses are only required to cough up the .50 for a sticker, then I have to wonder if their share of the cost shouldn't be included in the residential totals.

As it stands - it appears that small businesses are enjoying this service virtually free whereas large business such as restaurants have to contract for the large dumpsters and residents have to pay hefty income and property taxes for the service.

Another point to think about then is whether or not businesses should be assessed a larger fee for the service provided to them...

Thoughts?

Peace,
~Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

If you are going to do this correctly you would have to add in the .50 cents a bag. Also we are a small buisness as are all the other business in the building. We all pay. So the comment about all small businesses not paying is wrong.

Large businesses go outside, and many medium businesses go outside, I even know some small business that go outside if they want dumpsters. Cerny Shoes would be a perfect example

"but that is obviously not how much it is costing the city (and therefore its taxpayers) to haul the trash."

Are you sure or is this like $200?

Before you start assessing larger businesses, let's see where the real numbers fall. How does one decide what is larger? Is not a bag a bag? Are you sure they are losing on the deal? Trucks back into our area and load a quick 30-50 bags.

Have you taken anything to the dump? Residents can dump all day for free. Businesses pay. Does this offset the larger fee for larger businesses? Should residents start to pay if we take trash to the dump?

How much is brought in on recycling?

How much does that cost?


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[Charyn Varkonyi]

If you are going to do this correctly you would have to add in the .50 cents a bag

I understand your point; however, I would asses that in terms of revenue provided for service. Example: If the average cost for commercial collection is 140 and the average business has 3 bags per week, it would be a net cost to the city of 138.50. THAT would be the proper number for comparison. (note: all numbers are for illustrative purposes only)

So the comment about all small businesses not paying is wrong

That is not what I said. I said that small businesses were enjoying a service that was "virtually free" - but your point is valid when it comes to determining exactly what small is. A business that has only three bags a week pays only 78/yr - almost half of what my residential cost is for contract service. But a small business that tosses 11 bags a week pays about double what I pay.

From a certain standpoint there is logic in that; however, the retiree that throws out a single bag a week will still have the same cost as the family of ten...

There really isn't a way I know of at this time to bring this down to that level of granularity, but fortunately it isn't necessary to broaden the scope of this discussion that much to determine if there is potential savings to be enjoyed by contracting the trash collection to a private firm.

Before you start assessing larger businesses

That is not what I said. I pondered whether it would make sense to asses a larger fee to businesses - meaning those businesses that utilize the trash collection service.

Have you taken anything to the dump

haha - one of my closest friends worked for the refuse & recycling department for 10 years.... I am well familiar with the dump. But the fees for dumping should be considered separately (IMHO) as that will likely continue to be an available resource regardless of any continuation or change in the current status quo.

How much is brought in on recycling?

How much does that cost?

Very good questions - let me add... do we consider rubbish collection separate from recycling? Or only together? Should we keep recycling and contract trash? Contract both? Keep both?

Let me point out (again) I have no definite opinion on this as I don't feel that I have enough information to make a solid decision. It is something, however, that I wondered about frequently over the last two years.


FFT

Peace,
~Charyn

[Mark Timieski]

How much does the average Lakewood resident pay a year for backyard trash service?

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but trash collection would come from local income tax collection.

If I compare the amount the city spends on trash removal versus the entire yearly budget, I get a percentage of the budget that is spent on backyard trash pickup. I could then compare the percentage against a W-2 form, and I would know how much I’m spending on backyard trash pickup.

So…

What is the yearly budget?
How much do we spend on trash collection ($3.9,$4.2, $4.6 million)?

For the record, I think that the backyard trash pickup is the neatest thing since sliced bread, deluxe. It’s nice to be able to go on vacation or be absent-minded and not have a back yard pile up with stink.

I didn’t know Lakewood had backyard pickup until I moved here, but I’m pretty sure I couldn’t live without it. I think it gives the city the appearance of tidiness, something that’s missing from most municipalities (especially given our population density).