Taxes Not High Enough?!

[Jim O'Bryan]

This is what I have heard from property owners over the past 6 months. While a great many in the community feel our taxes are way to high, I have run into many property owners of one lot and many that think they should be even higher.

The general attitude put forth by many of these people is: Stop with the band-aids already. Let's get things fixed that need to be fixed. We all know we have a multi-million dollar sewer bill on the horizon as mandated by the EPA. We know the streets could be fixed. In other threads we are talking about more police, better services. None of it comes without higher taxes.

As we all now know the economy is spinning down, and dollars are getting tighter isn't now the best time to ask for more? As the schools and Library get finished should the city look at asking for that money to stay somewhere else in the city?

With Citistat coming into its own, and proof that the mayor is making the city run on a tighter budget, isn't now the time to ante up?

Any thoughts?


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[Joan Roberts]

First, let me point out that the mayor has no choice but to work within a tighter budget. By law, cities can't deficit spend. They can only borrow to cover shortfalls, and Lakewood isn't in a good position to do that right now.

I heard "Citistat" being mentioned again and again, but what's the deal with it? Sounds like what the young-uns called "vaporware", at least as it relates to Lakewood.

But having said that, I'm not a Republcan who believes all taxes are evil. I'm a Republican who tends to be skeptical of government, but also one who believes that only government can do certain things.

I probably WOULD support an income tax increase, for the reasons you said, but only if it were balanced with a REAL plan for economic growth. I see commissions, I hear of reports and surveys. Where's the beef? Can we name 5 businesses of 10 employees or more who've moved in in the last year? That's 50 crummy workers. Have we been able to even accomplish that modest achievement? (Maybe we have, I hope we have)

Also, as one of the myriad reports pointed out, people are more likely to support a tax increase if there's a direct benefit tied to it (like the schools and library). Right or wrong, there's not much zest for giving sanitation workers raises.

Lakewood simply can't keep taxing the same people over and over and over at ever-higher rates. The pie needs to get bigger.

It's a CITY, not a condo association.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan

The day you move from Lakewood is the day the city looses a good person and a good thinker.

Since starting the paper i have been involved in many discussions and many of them are surprising. This was certainly one of them. Another inter sting thread was Wynadotte Ave. We saw announced that is was very smooth and quick. Within hours we saw one resident ask for bumps to be put back in!

It is funny but many of the things finally coming to pass, and you mentioned could have been handled had people been willing to look outside the box.

Community Currency - Was laughed down when Dennis Dunn suggested it. Today that currency would be worth 4-5 times as much as when issued. That is a staggering number, especially when needing to pay teachers and city employees. The impact would have set this city free of many of the headaches we currently have. Last fall Ken again made the push for Community Currency looking for people willing to kick in $200,000 to start it off. Even then the currency held would be worth $600,000 as it was backed with silver. Not enough to avoid taxes, but enough to use for incentives with city workers.

Lakewood's storefronts/Business - How to fill? We have one plan called the Lakewood Shopping Experience which should be popping up on the front page any day now. But the city must find a way to get home based businesses into our small storefronts. Sometimes the darnedest things take off, and allow businesses to grow and hire the ten you are looking for. Yesterday in my office I was working on a package design for a client that has secured patients on antenna toppers that look like poker chips and cards. Not a life saver but in this age of "poker" I am willing to bet a money maker. She works out of her house.

Something I thought of years ago that i learned from my various businesses. Lakewood is situated nearly perfectly. We have tons of storefronts for businesses to have a relatively cheap physical location for walk in traffic. We also live in the perfect time zone for business. At the beginning of our day we can still talk business with Europe and the UK during their business day. At night we can hit Asia as their day starts. This could be exploited for both offices and retail.

As a person that sends out various products I have learned that a person can order a sign, vinyl for cars, t-shirts and clothing almost up till 5:00pm and I can still have it to FedEx for overnight by 10:30pm which still gives me time to make it to UPS in Brunswick for the last shipment out. FedEx is 9:45 at the airport. These are things that I have never seen exploited in talking about why business should move here.

We have hundreds of home based business that could be connected through common threads, that hook-up to a fulfillment center that can warehouse and ship their goods. All tied in through common marketing practices that build Lakewood business while cutting the cost of doing business in Lakewood. How would that help the city? This is exactly what is being proposed and implemented with the Lakewood Shopping Experience. Done without city money, but with their support and the support of the Chamber of Commerce.

Using radical things like community currency, business working together this city can be the city you drem of and I dream of, even though or dreams are very different, or maybe not.

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[dl meckes]

Can we name 5 businesses of 10 employees or more who've moved in in the last year?

I'm still not thinking too clearly, but
Ferry Cap & Screw
New York Life
ThinSolutions (they've probably been here more than a year, though...)
Lucien Realty
the achitects/engineers at the old Kingdom Hall on Madison (may not be 10)
Progressive Realty

I don't know how many people are employed across the street from the library.

We've certainly had a number of residents in the construction business able to find some work, although that isn't permanent...

[Jeff Endress]

We've certainly had a number of residents in the construction business able to find some work, although that isn't permanent

Although, it must be said that for at least the next two to four years, we will have hundreds of workers, paying city payroll taxes, by virtue of the Schools and Library projects....

Also don't know how many Walgreens will employ, but I'll bet its over ten...
Jeff

[Bill Call]

I heard "Citistat" being mentioned again and again, but what's the deal with it? Sounds like what the young-uns called "vaporware", at least as it relates to Lakewood.

I probably WOULD support an income tax increase, for the reasons you said, but only if it were balanced with a REAL plan for economic growth.

Citistat is going nowhere. A successful Citistat program requires transparency and accountability. You won't find either at City Hall.

I have no problem with a 2.5% income tax rate with no additional credits if it were tied to a specific plan for housing, population stability and economic growth.

The last tax plan floated by the administration would have raised 2.5 million dollars per year. The raises promised to City employees were going to cost the City 1.5 million dollars per year. The new tax money would have been used up in only 18 months. At that point another tax increase would have been required to balance the budget.

I am willing to support a tax increase that is tied to a specific plan of action. I am not willing to support a tax increase for another round of raises at City Hall.

[Lynn Farris]

Let's get things fixed that need to be fixed. We all know we have a multi-million dollar sewer bill on the horizon as mandated by the EPA.

If this is true, and I believe it is, then why last year were we encouraged to raid this fund and make the money for this useable for the general fund. Am I missing something here? Please enlighten me.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Lynn:

The rumor is that if the Lakewood sewer system were to be merged with the Northeast Ohio Sewer District the funds that are currently allocated to that department would be lost, so to ensure the maximum utilization of those funds, they were re-allocated to street repair.

And the rumor is that such a merger is more likely than not...

however, I freely admit that I am not at those barganing tables, so I cannot validate this information....

Regards,
~Charyn

[john crino]

How about the city finding some new tax paying industry or commercial taxpayer and take some of the burden off the home owner. The people that believe they aren't paying enough can pay some of mine.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

How about the city finding some new tax paying industry or commercial taxpayer and take some of the burden off the home owner.

Well, that has always been the problem in Lakewood, hasn't it?

Lakewood was, is, and for the relatively near term future will be, the "City of Homes" which means that a greater portion of the tax burden falls upon the homeowners and smaller income tax credits for out of city work.

We want all of the the quaintness and charm of being the city of homes, we want independent facilities, we want exemplary service, we want to be tops in safety and security, we want better schools...

...but we want big business to pay?

What neighborhoods shall we demolish to put in a factory? Or perhaps we can expand Baker's? What major corporation will come here without a tax incentive?

It goes back to the question that is asked and never answered:

What do we want Lakewood to be?

And the question that is rarely, if ever, asked:

Are we ready to pay (one way or another) for what we want?

FFT
~Charyn

[john crino]

...but we want big business to pay?

What neighborhoods shall we demolish to put in a factory? Or perhaps

Are we ready to pay (one way or another) for what we want?

I think it would be nice if there were some big businesses to help pay.
I haev mentioned this before, about marketing Lakewod to outside busnesses and giving what it takes to win them over to ove in.
Abatements or what have you.
I also have used the example of Winston-Salem NC landing the Dell manufacturing facility with 1400 jobs(?). Think of all the perifery businesses that come along with that plus filled housing.
Maybe Lakewood needs something radical like a commitment from someone that would allow us to demolish some doubles or some crappy blond brick apaprtment buildings. I was not here for the west end and I should probably not bring it up but I wish it existed in lakewood at this point. I grew up in a city that my father griped about as declining, worrying if he should move the family etc etc. I don't want to do that for the next 20 years.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Abatements or what have you.

John

I think the history of abatements working is that they do not bring in as much as the city has to give out.

Lake Erie Screw is filling up and rumor has it that at least 5 other businesses will be moving into the neighborhood as well to support the new business. You know good union jobs, chrome plating, metal work, smelting, metal stamping.

You really should do a little drop off and/or flyer for the place.


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[Mark Timieski]

It would be nice if there was a big business to help pay taxes, but the big businesses often have less interest in paying and more capability NOT to pay than you or I do.

http://www.ncicl.org/LITIGATION/complaint.html

The above link is a suit filed by Winston-Salem residents complaining (in short) that Dell should also pay taxes (or at least sooner than 2044).

I’ve often thought that our city has a much better capacity to be a nice place to live since this is the primary function of this city.

I posted an article about historic tax cuts that are currently being proposed in Ohio in another thread. I was surprised that there didn’t seem to be much interest. I would think this would be a HUGE interest to most of us, since we live in a city that would benefit from these proposals greatly (both business and home owners).

http://www.greaterohio.org/briefings/historic/tax_credit_historic.htm

http://www.greaterohio.org/policy/hist_tax_credit.htm

[Joseph Milan]

Just a side note, something that noone has posted here or in the Global discussion section, where my comment applies, April's government receipts were the second largest in US history, creating a surplus for the month.

This story was hidden in the back of the Plain Dealer. Those who argue that higher taxes are a good thing should consider this, whether discussing local, state or federal taxes.

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1147347034148670.xml?nnusa&coll=2

Joe

[Charyn Varkonyi]

And so our deficit is only going to be 300 billion, eh? And you want me to feel good about that?

Oh, and is that number adjusted for inflation - or is it just the largest dollar amount, making it a fun statistic to report?

Either way, this snippit should not be the grounds for decision making without proper analysis.

JMO

Peace,
~Charyn

oh- and make no assumptions - I am not entirely opposed to tax rate hikes where necessary; however, I vigorously oppose them when there is not a clear spending reduction plan in place. In other words - you show me you are being responsible with my money and Ill consider your argument that you need more - otherwise you can take a long walk off a short....