Is the City of Lakewood hostile to small business owners?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Good points. Excellent, critical points, in fact.
I don't know that we've had the conversation about what "our city actually wants." and if we did, I don't remember being asked.
So that's where we start. Who moderates the conversation, and what's the venue?

Joan

Might be the biggest problem.

One of the horror stories as told to me by the sign designer was North Coast Health Ministries. He claimed, he presented many drawings, but was told the "blue" was not right. when asked what blue was right he was told according to him, "It is not our job to tell you what blue to use, only which blue is wrong." What makes this even more incredible is that it was a colored pencil drawing. Look at the drawing for Hollywood Video. They used muted colors in their drawing for the neon work. It looks nothing like the final colors. So one would ask what the point is?

Last time the city tried for a "look" it was mall like, cookie cutter and really hideous. Now the flavor dujour is individual looks for each building ala Crocker Park. Neon was outlawed for a long time, now it is embraced. Signs over sidewalks were a no-no, now the turn of the last century look is back in.

It is all so tough.

Me personally, I like relaxed sign laws based on safety, respect for the neighbors and neighborhoods and that is about it.


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[David Scott]

Mr O'Bryan - I am a little perplexed by your style of response. You're debating a piece of paper ?? Give me a little credit for intelligence - I would respond in a different manner to a specific question, not just rely on something I typed a day ago. It is a little strange that you thing I have zero reasoning skills.

As far as your first point about going to the new business owner with nothing. I didn't really think they would go with nothing. A list or regulations and contact numbers would be good. My point was that I don't fee a brochure is adequate. You want the City Rep to bring a brochure, that's fine. I have no problem with it.

As far as small business owner's business sense. I do run a business, and assist others. My personal experience in starting up a business is that most colored brochures get thrown away no matter who they are from. It would be better to send a authoritative looking envelope and letter then a brochure. And yes, many small business owners are mistrustful of the government. We are seeing a new wave of Middle-Eastern business owners whose major fear is deportation. They just won't volunteer information to the City. Now I work mostly with people in Cleveland - Maybe Lakewood is different. I know most owners try to cut costs in the beginning, and one way is not to deal with City regs and Certified electricians and plumbing. Again, this is my personal experience - yours could be different. Most small business owners don't purchase the building (John Cirino) but instead rent - and they expect the landlord to handle these issues.

As for signs, I don't seen how the sign at Mo's gear place was a great risk. He is in the corner of a building next to a closed Dairy Mart. Not a high pedestrian traffic area. And you came down on him for his sign, for the type of business and insinuated it was either low quality rip-offs or stolen. I am not sure how that makes him feel welcome.

As for the faux village of Crocker Park - was there last night. I had to park on the 4th floor of the garage since all the parking spaces were taken. Shops were full, restaurants doing a good business and the movie theaters were a big draw.

Also, maybe you didn't read everything I wrote - it won't take $40,000 for this position - I guess a salary of $60,000 and with benefits the cost will be $80,000. But if it fills the vacant storefronts, isn't it worth it. We justify tax abatement to Rockport and Rosewood because what the future benefit will be. I am not going to bother doing an economic study, but I see the empty storefronts and wonder what the City or the Chamber or the Kiwanis are doing to attract business.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Jim writes:

Last time the city tried for a "look" it was mall like, cookie cutter and really hideous. Now the flavor dujour is individual looks for each building ala Crocker Park. Neon was outlawed for a long time, now it is embraced. Signs over sidewalks were a no-no, now the turn of the last century look is back in.

I might point out that in your opinion it was hideous. Just like it is your opinion the breakfast at one of our local diners is better than Bob Evans, or that Crocker Park is vanilla and unappealing.

I think it is important to keep in mind that you are one voice in 57K. The people you socialize with are likely to share similar (not necessarily the same) opinions, thereby reinforcing your belief that your opinions may represent a large number of residents opinions.

They might.

Sales information, however, would seem to indicate otherwise. While you are quick to point out that certain large pedestrian malls have not met analysts recommendations, you do not point out the actual sales and revenue data for those areas.

It is significant. Which indicates to me that there are a LOT of people that LIKE those environments. That WANT those types of shopping experiences. The fact that analysts were wrong in their predictions? Sorry, not news to me.

JOB - I figure this business is going to fail. If they cannot sort through mail, and email and realize what is important and what isn't they would have very little business sense.

It is this type of arrogant, rude, condescending treatment that makes business owners feel unwelcome. Perhaps you have done everything perfectly in your life. If so, I commend you. However, the rest of us are human and would appreciate a little help here and there. A little compassion, a little encouragement and (HEAVENS!!) a little guidance.

JOB - Are you sure they are not helped by sign police?

I refer back to Mr. Scott's original post and comment:

This board doesn't help things by having sign police running through town ready to slap non-qualifying signs on the Internet

The point was, and is, that the vigilante style of attack that occurred as a result of someone's mistake creates a hostile atmosphere. All of backspinning in the latter end of that thread did NOT change the fact that a new business in Lakewood was ruthlessly attacked for not only a sign that was improper, but for the type of business that it was.

Imagine you are a new business owner and you are looking through community websites trying to find a place to build your business. You come across the Observer site and find threads disparaging a number of businesses in a vile and unprofessional manner. Are you really going to want to build your business there? Actually a better question is are others going to want to open a business in that environment?

Yeah I guess you and Joan are correct. Hide from the city and start a $40,000 a year welcome wagon program that talks slowly so notes can be made.

Snippy, snippy, snippy - you have overgeneralized and taken things out of context in order to build a case to validate your opinion and then you close with a rude remark to two intelligent, polite, well-spoken people who are trying brainstorm thoughtful, forward-thinking ideas to help stimulate our business community.

The question I have to ask is how does this help?

Regards,
~Charyn

[Joan Roberts]

Yeah I guess you and Joan are correct. Hide from the city and start a $40,000 a year welcome wagon program that talks slowly so notes can be made.

Snippy, snippy, snippy - you have overgeneralized and taken things out of context in order to build a case to validate your opinion and then you close with a rude remark to two intelligent, polite, well-spoken people who are trying brainstorm thoughtful, forward-thinking ideas to help stimulate our business community.

The question I have to ask is how does this help?

Regards,
~Charyn

Thanks for the note of support. You said it all, pointedly but tactfully.
I have to admit I was momentarily hurt by this snide over-reaction to what I think is a reasonable concept of a small business ombudsman in a city fighting to differentiate itself from other more desirable (at least on paper) locations.
I've tried not to belittle other's opinions in my posts. I would think even Mr. Call would agree with that.
I had about 100 equally snippy responses to it, but again, an internet board is not worth an aneurysm.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan

If you saw my suggesting we try the cheap route first as snippy I apologize. I think your answer is perfect in a perect world but this city is broke. $40,000 is a tough number to come up with.

At the same time, companies that you have always suggested in the past of the chain variety are profesisonal business people, and come loaded for bear with everything done perfectly, up to code and are usually city hall friendly. So how many small businesses do you think we need to address over the course of a year? 50?

Have yoou ever called City Hall? The switchboard operator is very good at her job. She has been with the city for a number of years(20?) and really knows who can answer what questions. She is also the person that sends out welcome kits to new residents and home owners. Maybe we could kick her $4,000 more a year, handle the businesses, and spend the other $35,000 to the new Family Room on the east end.

I think this might also be handled with the Chamber of Commerce. I know within days of filing with the city Kathy Berskshire from the Chamber stopped by and dropped off a bunch of information. I know members of MAMA keep up on Madison Ave. businesses, new, old, moving, etc.

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[Dustin James]

It seems like everyone is trying to say the same things in different ways.

Most cities are notoriously out of sync with their own Chamber of Commerce' unless the mayor and council leadership make concerted efforts to work in unison to welcome new business (big and small). But there are other "non-official" ways to get things done too.

The LO-OD has a section called Connections. It has Activities, Churches Groups and Volunteers needed. Okay, I'm yawning too , BUT, I'm sure it could have a section called Business Unusual! as well. Couldn't the energy generated here translate to business functions quite easily? Shared resources, pooled ideas, voting power.

Does Lakewood have a SBA? how about SCORE?
http://www.scorecleveland.org/about.htm

The government that is elected to uphold signage codes should indeed be looking out for the safety of citizens, but designers should be in charge of fighting eye pollution.

Take back your government for the things that matter. You have the abilty to create a large voice, just make sure if you are going to shout, that you write the speech first Right?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dave Scott - As far as your first point about going to the new business owner with nothing. I didn't really think they would go with nothing. A list or regulations and contact numbers would be good. My point was that I don't fee a brochure is adequate. You want the City Rep to bring a brochure, that's fine. I have no problem with it.

JOB - I am in total agreement. As I mentioned in a perfect healthy city Joan's answer is great. Especially if done outside of city hall. I believe this is one of the things Mainstreet LCPI is working on.

Dave Scott - As far as small business owner's business sense. I do run a business, and assist others. My personal experience in starting up a business is that most colored brochures get thrown away no matter who they are from. It would be better to send a authoritative looking envelope and letter then a brochure. And yes, many small business owners are mistrustful of the government. We are seeing a new wave of Middle-Eastern business owners whose major fear is deportation. They just won't volunteer information to the City. Now I work mostly with people in Cleveland - Maybe Lakewood is different. I know most owners try to cut costs in the beginning, and one way is not to deal with City regs and Certified electricians and plumbing. Again, this is my personal experience - yours could be different. Most small business owners don't purchase the building (John Cirino) but instead rent - and they expect the landlord to handle these issues.

JOB - I agree with everything you say, with some qualifiers. ALL BUSINESS OWNERS MUST realize they are in business WITH the government. Taxes, laws, regulations, etc. They should also realize that they must "excite" their clients. I drive Detroit and Madison every day, think of all the signs I never mention?! Moe's was singles out for safety. Particle board that was already wet, nailed in over a sidewalk. As for the storenext door, stop and ask what happened to Moe, you might change your mind on some of these topics.

David Scott - As for the faux village of Crocker Park - was there last night. I had to park on the 4th floor of the garage since all the parking spaces were taken. Shops were full, restaurants doing a good business and the movie theaters were a big draw.

JOB - You argue with someone agreeing with you. I like the signage at Crocker Park, Legacy Village and other Faux Towns. I like indivudlaity. I have no problems with signs in any language, depicting whatever. But signs that do not repsect the neighborhood and/or are dangerous make me a little angry. But I have a sign shop. Maybe the tailor notice badly fitting suits?

David Scott - Also, maybe you didn't read everything I wrote - it won't take $40,000 for this position - I guess a salary of $60,000 and with benefits the cost will be $80,000. But if it fills the vacant storefronts, isn't it worth it. We justify tax abatement to Rockport and Rosewood because what the future benefit will be. I am not going to bother doing an economic study, but I see the empty storefronts and wonder what the City or the Chamber or the Kiwanis are doing to attract business.

JOB - Again we are in almost complete agreement. I cannot see the city spending $80,000 to make $60,000. I would love the Chamber to underwrite that. As a Kiwainian myself I am not sure economic development is our forte. LakewoodAlive certainly is working on it, as are council people and the planning department.

Storefronts are a problem, but not a hard one to address, but for some reason all come up shooting blanks and go for the homerun.

Dave we actually agree on this more than we disagree. I love Joan's idea until I hear the city has to pay. We just do not have the money right now.


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[Jim O'Bryan]

The LO-OD has a section called Connections. It has Activities, Churches Groups and Volunteers needed. Okay, I'm yawning too , BUT, I'm sure it could have a section called Business Unusual! as well. Couldn't the energy generated here translate to business functions quite easily? Shared resources, pooled ideas, voting power.

Dustin

You have let something out of the box just a little early. The Observer is working on a special program to help address many of these concerns and others while offering real financial rewards for small businesses taking part. One thing we are offering at the paper is news blurbs on opening businesses to help them get started on the right foot. From their the magic kick in. No cost.

Code Name - Lakewood Shopping Experience
By the end of the month, beta testing almost done.


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[Joan Roberts]

One of the things that makes the internet fun, but also aggravating, is that you can seize on something someone has said you disagree with and make that the center of your response.

If you read my original post about the ombudsman, I clearly used the word "IF", as in "IF it takes $40,000, find the money."

I don't back down from that. However, IF it can be done with existing staff (and I suspect it might), IF it can be done with a part-timer or retiree, IF it can be done with a cadre of volunteers, so be it.

The idea isn't to pad the public payroll, but to give budding businesses a human (as opposed to a tri-fold) hand in dealing with the myriad rules and regs that go along with opening a Lakewood business, as opposed to a Westlake one.

If you want to give it the back of your hand as a "Welcome Wagon," well maybe I had it coming I may have been snippy myself last week in pointing out that your attendance at the mayor's birthday party(and your noting online of same) may reflect the fact that you may be less than an objective observer of the administration. So perhaps we're even.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan

We are in total agreement, and I do not keep score on snippy or other things. I am a person that lives in the now. You bring more to the board than I can ever thank you for. We all have good days and bad days. I wrote a doozy of a reply yesterday just to have friends call and ask if I was having a stroke! It was deleted.

I love the idea of putting a human face to the process. but I have to look at the budget and I do not see it getting that much better that quickly.

Certainly business owners should realize that the city is their friend in the process. If trouble is encountered, then it is off to the council person then the mayor.

But I still feel, a good solid check list with directory would do wonders.

Thanks for all of the input. wish I could get you to write, and fieldtrip with us. You would add much to the discussion.


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[Bill Call]

But, a huge part of the problem are commercial owners who milk the properties, but fail to update them. A small start up isn't going to dump 10K into a rental storefront. So, do we want to roll back ordinances, take a more hands off approach and see what develops or do we expect the city to enforce the ordinances on its books? Like the speeder who gets caught, you're gonna blame the cops, but in point of fact, its the driver's fault for breaking the law. Similar situation here, if there's a problem opening a business in a rental space, isn't that really the fault of the landlord that owns that space and not the inspector who merely points out the violations?

Jeff

Good point. I looked at a commercial building in Lakewood last year that
was owned by the same man for 40 years. It was clear that in that 40 years he did absolutely nothing to the building. The building is now home to Sweet Designs. She is doing a great job in renovating the building because she owns it.

Lakewood is unfriendly to business but no more than other cities.

Our building department has to enforce the existing building codes. BUT they don't have to take 30 days to review a minor change in a tenant renovation and then take another 30 days to review the next minor change.

A business that wants to move into Lakewood is in a sense a potential "customer" of Lakewood. When a business owner sees a customer he sees an opportunity. When a bureaucrat sees a "customer" he sees more work.

[Joan Roberts]

\
Thanks for all of the input. wish I could get you to write, and fieldtrip with us. You would add much to the discussion.


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I would probably enjoy that. But I wouldn't write unless I could be fact-based. Fulminating and tossing out half-baked ideas is something I can do on a whim, but if I were going to put my name on something more official, that's a different thing.

For example, I happened upon a well-respected member of the education community over the weekend. He's an old acquaintance, and although he works in another district, he's familiar with Dr. Estrop's anti-NCLB campaign.

His perspective was that, while NCLB has big flaws, Estrop's missing the boat, too. And he had facts to back it up.

Good stories take facts. Facts mean research, and research means time, more than I have right now. Besides, IT'S TIME TO GO OUTSIDE. Maybe after summer semester.

[Tom Bullock]

Great thread, everyone, that I'm joining late.

What is being done with the great list of problems and proposed solutions you've identified in this discussion? There's lots of good experience here that could be culled for useful action steps. Whose got the ball?

Seems to me TIMELINESS OF RESPONSE and CUSTOMER FRIENDLINESS (both human beings and printed brochures) are key goals that the City Govt should strive to attain.

[Dustin James]

You have let something out of the box just a little early. The Observer is working on a special program to help address many of these concerns and others while offering real financial rewards for small businesses taking part. One thing we are offering at the paper is news blurbs on opening businesses to help them get started on the right foot. From their the magic kick in. No cost.

Code Name - Lakewood Shopping Experience

Didn't know I was spilling any beans, sorry. So it sounds from the shopping name, that it's retail shopping oriented, rather than small biz at large? Just curious.

It does seem like a small business association that could bridge some of the usual hype of the chamber of commerce with some real solution- based answers to getting a biz up and running, would help change the perception that Lakewood is hard to do business with. Of course it's very important that the Mayor and City Hall have a philosophy of genuinely wanting to help and making that part of the bureaucratic culture, rather than hit or miss.

[Joseph Milan]

Wait a minute - - let me get this straight.
There have been several discussions on this board and elsewhere that Democrats favor the little guy and Republicans favor business interests.

While I don't fully agree with this assertion (the Kelo case, I believe, would have never passed if the Supreme Court was Republican leaning), the point is still made over and over again that Republicans are better for business.

If someone wants Lakewood to be "better for business", perhaps they should stop complaining that republicans are better for business to begin with.

I'm not suggesting that we vote for councilmen that will disregard the law, I'm simply suggesting that we vote for council that won't make it hard to conduct business in Lakewood.

The way I'm reading this thread, coupled with past threads on other topics, it seems some people want to have their cake and eat it too.

Joe