I am having a little problem with a job and thought I would throw out a question to see what others might think of it. I fear I am too close to the problem and cannot judge it effectively.
I hired a consultant, not for the Observer, but one of my other businesses. He had worked in "similar" businesses, but never really anything exactly what I own. Over the past couple weeks when asking some tough questions about how we should invest in the future. This "consultant" has continuously miss stated, "facts." When asked directly he always tries to shift the conversation, and backs it up with other "facts" that end up being as untrue as the "facts" he was caught lying about. It seems sometimes like on a whim, he decides on something then tries to make the "facts" fit. Until it is almost embarrassing talking to him.
What makes me wonder is that this business has very limited funds. We barely have a cushion. The business is but one large expense from going under. Now this consultant keeps telling us that we really need this or that and we cannot wait. But it is a little more than we have to spend. Also the stuff he wants us to buy really doesn't fill the REAL NEEDS we have, that need to be addressed.
Nice guy, but what should I do?
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What should I do?
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Jim O'Bryan
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What should I do?
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Charyn Varkonyi
Jim:
There are a few things that you need to look at here to get to the best answer for your company.
(1) A consultant should not try to 'force' or coerce you into doing anything that you are not comfortable with. There are many instances where we have clients that do, or do not, want to follow a recommended course of action and while in every case we will present our reasoning for making the recommendation, we simply note that they are choosing an alternative at this time. It is their business and they (the client) MUST feel comfortable in the decision making process.
(2) If you are being asked to make financial commitments the FIRST thing that you should have in your hand is a complete financial analysis. A p&l statement, cash flow statement, cost benefit analysis, opportunity cost analysis, etc. "I think this will be a great idea!" is NOT good enough. The numbers must be worked & reviewed and the expense should be planned for to ensure that there is not significant threat to the company's cash flow.
(3) Your own words indicate that the recommendations dont meet the 'real needs' of the business you are referring to so I would submit that you have answered your own question. If you understand your venture well enough to be able to create a needs analysis then do so. From there you can prioritize the needs, lacks, wants, etc. accordingly and in a fashion that will be the most cost effective. The idea, of course, being that if you fix your urgent needs, then you can use the positive net effects of those improvements to make other improvements.
I hope this helps. It is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to proper business analysis and consulting, but should be able to assist you in steering your consultant in the direction YOU want to go.
Peace,
~Charyn
There are a few things that you need to look at here to get to the best answer for your company.
(1) A consultant should not try to 'force' or coerce you into doing anything that you are not comfortable with. There are many instances where we have clients that do, or do not, want to follow a recommended course of action and while in every case we will present our reasoning for making the recommendation, we simply note that they are choosing an alternative at this time. It is their business and they (the client) MUST feel comfortable in the decision making process.
(2) If you are being asked to make financial commitments the FIRST thing that you should have in your hand is a complete financial analysis. A p&l statement, cash flow statement, cost benefit analysis, opportunity cost analysis, etc. "I think this will be a great idea!" is NOT good enough. The numbers must be worked & reviewed and the expense should be planned for to ensure that there is not significant threat to the company's cash flow.
(3) Your own words indicate that the recommendations dont meet the 'real needs' of the business you are referring to so I would submit that you have answered your own question. If you understand your venture well enough to be able to create a needs analysis then do so. From there you can prioritize the needs, lacks, wants, etc. accordingly and in a fashion that will be the most cost effective. The idea, of course, being that if you fix your urgent needs, then you can use the positive net effects of those improvements to make other improvements.
I hope this helps. It is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to proper business analysis and consulting, but should be able to assist you in steering your consultant in the direction YOU want to go.
Peace,
~Charyn
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Jim O'Bryan
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Charyn
The problem is that not only do all of our projections run through this person. He seems to be able to produce at will other "professionals" that would seem to back up the concept or idea.
But I almost feel like a father who caught my son doing something he shouldn't be doing. All we need are the facts.
An example would be this baseball shirt we make. Now it is a nice baseball shirt, but nothing out of the ordinary. But we got business projections and profitability projections, while he (they) telling us that we were making "World Class" baseball shirts! It seemed unreal nearly surreal.
I understand putting "World Class" on the package we sell the shirts in. Makes all the sense in the world, I mean it is all about the bling when selling to non-family. But when you are dealing with family or the boss, i always thought the Bling, especially when tin, is just fudging the facts to fool the boss. But how can the boss make a decision on false data?
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The problem is that not only do all of our projections run through this person. He seems to be able to produce at will other "professionals" that would seem to back up the concept or idea.
But I almost feel like a father who caught my son doing something he shouldn't be doing. All we need are the facts.
An example would be this baseball shirt we make. Now it is a nice baseball shirt, but nothing out of the ordinary. But we got business projections and profitability projections, while he (they) telling us that we were making "World Class" baseball shirts! It seemed unreal nearly surreal.
I understand putting "World Class" on the package we sell the shirts in. Makes all the sense in the world, I mean it is all about the bling when selling to non-family. But when you are dealing with family or the boss, i always thought the Bling, especially when tin, is just fudging the facts to fool the boss. But how can the boss make a decision on false data?
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Stan Austin
- Contributor
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Jim--- I have found that when I am dealing with or relating to people that we both have to be coming from a shared sense of reality. If the two of you don't have that to begin with and a common sense of logic and analysis then your relationship will be at loggerheads. It might even seem to you that your friend is deliberately making incorrect conclusions.
A year or so ago I was in a business partnership with an individual whom I thought was qualified. Then it happened-- what I call the jaw dropper. He started offering opinions and explanations that were shear fantasy. This aspect of his personality had been hidden or disguised. In reflection I had willingly overlooked clear instances of his inability to "understand, or just simply to get along."
Now, a little poorer, but much wiser I would say that if something doesn't ring true then it ain't.
If you aren't under any severe time deadlines then there is time to consider other opinions.
Stan Austin
A year or so ago I was in a business partnership with an individual whom I thought was qualified. Then it happened-- what I call the jaw dropper. He started offering opinions and explanations that were shear fantasy. This aspect of his personality had been hidden or disguised. In reflection I had willingly overlooked clear instances of his inability to "understand, or just simply to get along."
Now, a little poorer, but much wiser I would say that if something doesn't ring true then it ain't.
If you aren't under any severe time deadlines then there is time to consider other opinions.
Stan Austin
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Jim O'Bryan
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Stan
What I fear is the money runs out while the business goes down the tube. Another part that I should mention is that the business is not really designed to make money, but to provide a needed service. Because of that and what I will call grants, every year the coffers get refilled. But let's be honest people do not give like they used to, so it seems those funds shrink, while the cost to running the business grows and grows. This year we will have less than $6,580.00 left in the bank, and that is only in a perfect world and/or vacuum. If gas goes up?! If we get sued?!
The other problem is yet again we are being advised we NEED THIS. Yet the same thing can be acquired through outside services for far far less if not FREE with no liability on our part. I can see if these were "World Class" baseball shirts, maybe, but barely. but to be honest Stan our figures show us selling half as many of these shirts this year as last. With the way things are headed, a completely different style of shirt is coming into fashion, soccer shirts. Now we can make the nicest soccer shirts in this area, but I would still feel creepy if we, the employee, started to refer to them as our "World Class" soccer shirt instead of Style 18a.
Now another problem is that the man is honorable, very smart, and a good person and hard worker. But he refuses to wear the clothes we sell. At no time when hiring did we ever say "YOU MUST WEAR..." But because of ease, 98% of the people wear our gear. I have to be honest I think the customers respect us for that. when they call and mention Style 23c is scratchy, I already know that, or at least feel the scratch for myself. When another calls and mentions stitch density I merely have to look down. To be honest most of us live in our gear it is so comfortable. I can't see me wearing anything else!
But when he looks you in the eye and misstates something, then tries to cover his path with more misstatements. Either indicate he did not do his homework, or is just covering his ass, or is over worked. I can see overworked, but why not just say "I need to concentrate on what I have." Then other "professionals" come in to back him up, and they have no vested interest, most would never even walk into a store selling a shirt like this. It is tough, I like the worker but have similar commitments to all of my workers to keep the business going, for their security and well being. But I fear we are but one bad purchase from...
.
What I fear is the money runs out while the business goes down the tube. Another part that I should mention is that the business is not really designed to make money, but to provide a needed service. Because of that and what I will call grants, every year the coffers get refilled. But let's be honest people do not give like they used to, so it seems those funds shrink, while the cost to running the business grows and grows. This year we will have less than $6,580.00 left in the bank, and that is only in a perfect world and/or vacuum. If gas goes up?! If we get sued?!
The other problem is yet again we are being advised we NEED THIS. Yet the same thing can be acquired through outside services for far far less if not FREE with no liability on our part. I can see if these were "World Class" baseball shirts, maybe, but barely. but to be honest Stan our figures show us selling half as many of these shirts this year as last. With the way things are headed, a completely different style of shirt is coming into fashion, soccer shirts. Now we can make the nicest soccer shirts in this area, but I would still feel creepy if we, the employee, started to refer to them as our "World Class" soccer shirt instead of Style 18a.
Now another problem is that the man is honorable, very smart, and a good person and hard worker. But he refuses to wear the clothes we sell. At no time when hiring did we ever say "YOU MUST WEAR..." But because of ease, 98% of the people wear our gear. I have to be honest I think the customers respect us for that. when they call and mention Style 23c is scratchy, I already know that, or at least feel the scratch for myself. When another calls and mentions stitch density I merely have to look down. To be honest most of us live in our gear it is so comfortable. I can't see me wearing anything else!
But when he looks you in the eye and misstates something, then tries to cover his path with more misstatements. Either indicate he did not do his homework, or is just covering his ass, or is over worked. I can see overworked, but why not just say "I need to concentrate on what I have." Then other "professionals" come in to back him up, and they have no vested interest, most would never even walk into a store selling a shirt like this. It is tough, I like the worker but have similar commitments to all of my workers to keep the business going, for their security and well being. But I fear we are but one bad purchase from...
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
The soap opera continues.
Once again we threw together a meeting with board members, and stock holders. Our very nice, generally very smart consultant got up and addressed all in attendance. He presented little books to everyone and proceeded to go over the information in the book. almost immediately I was embarrassed, as many of the "facts" were wrong not only in the printed piece but also in the verbal that went alongside.
Finally, the Board asked to put it to a vote, and his ideas were thrown out, possible because of the inaccuracies that anyone could see. Some because of the common sense overriding what we were hearing, and maybe some just growing tired of the whole deal. One that got everyone going was how this new venture would pay for itself. But when the math was done, it would have taken 70 years to pay for itself!
After it was turned down our consultant took enough time to chastise the Board for being idiots, and also took enough time to alienate many of the stockholders.
What can I say...
Once again we threw together a meeting with board members, and stock holders. Our very nice, generally very smart consultant got up and addressed all in attendance. He presented little books to everyone and proceeded to go over the information in the book. almost immediately I was embarrassed, as many of the "facts" were wrong not only in the printed piece but also in the verbal that went alongside.
Finally, the Board asked to put it to a vote, and his ideas were thrown out, possible because of the inaccuracies that anyone could see. Some because of the common sense overriding what we were hearing, and maybe some just growing tired of the whole deal. One that got everyone going was how this new venture would pay for itself. But when the math was done, it would have taken 70 years to pay for itself!
After it was turned down our consultant took enough time to chastise the Board for being idiots, and also took enough time to alienate many of the stockholders.
What can I say...
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Mark Crnolatas
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
...
FWIW..a friend of mine..(no not ME ) .. who also had a PI business, specialized in missing persons. He coudn't say no to anyone, and he's a GREAT guy. When it came to children, if the parents/guardians coudn't pay, he'd do the work gratis.
Unfortunatly...he couldn't say no..and eventually, he good deeded himself out of business.
He's a super guy, and his service was super needed. He is GREAT at finding missing persons, but now he is out of the biz, and doing something different.
I have no idea what good that little story might do, but maybe the "air" of it applies somewhere in your experience with this situation. : )
Unfortunatly...he couldn't say no..and eventually, he good deeded himself out of business.
He's a super guy, and his service was super needed. He is GREAT at finding missing persons, but now he is out of the biz, and doing something different.
I have no idea what good that little story might do, but maybe the "air" of it applies somewhere in your experience with this situation. : )
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Joseph Milan
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:45 pm
Two suggestion, Jim.
One is not too economical, and few people do it. Hire a second adviser who won't try to push the same ideas on on you. You can weigh the two suggestions and make the one you feel is best suited for your needs.
Otherwise, get rid of the first one and look for someone else. Try to make sure before signing any contracts and/or hiring them that the decisions won't be pushed on you based on who else the adviser is influenced by. Make sure there are no conflicts of interests before signing on the dotted line.
Joe
One is not too economical, and few people do it. Hire a second adviser who won't try to push the same ideas on on you. You can weigh the two suggestions and make the one you feel is best suited for your needs.
Otherwise, get rid of the first one and look for someone else. Try to make sure before signing any contracts and/or hiring them that the decisions won't be pushed on you based on who else the adviser is influenced by. Make sure there are no conflicts of interests before signing on the dotted line.
Joe
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Jim O'Bryan
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- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
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Joseph Milan wrote:Two suggestion, Jim.
One is not too economical, and few people do it. Hire a second adviser who won't try to push the same ideas on on you. You can weigh the two suggestions and make the one you feel is best suited for your needs.
Otherwise, get rid of the first one and look for someone else. Try to make sure before signing any contracts and/or hiring them that the decisions won't be pushed on you based on who else the adviser is influenced by. Make sure there are no conflicts of interests before signing on the dotted line.
Joe
Joe
Thanks for the advice. Makes a ton of sense.
First I want everyone to know this has nothing to do with the Observer or AGS. I keep getting stopped and asked if I need help!
What we are deciding to do right now is work with him/her. We know he/she is smart, and we have learned a lot about how they make their decisions and how their project gets pushed through. For now instead of an adviser, they become a rule(scale) which I can better judge future calls and business.
Everyone brings bias to the table of life and business. None of us are perfect. For now we work with what we have.
Thanks to everyone that jumped in, especially those that called offering help.
peace
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama