The Bar Based Economy-Lakewood as the East Side of The Flats

[Jim O'Bryan]

Stephen

We come from completely different angles, and I do hope you are positive. But as we have discussed here, you like ripping everything down, before it is rebuilt. I like correcting the problems as they pop up with an strong eye to the future. Here is the difference, every night you take the bus home to a roof and a bed. I am still here, so to tear it all down and rebuild like Severence is just not an option I look forward to.

You like many others have no vested interest. Allies? I have family and friends. I have history, I put my money where my mouth is as I committed to it's future. Now I understand that would not be as strong as your allies, but it is all I have to work with.

Your view of Lakewood is like the kid watching the little robot kids on a trip through the Disney's "It's a Small World After All." My view is of the family that grew up working for Disney, keeping the those little robot kids singing to the music, while trying to draw up Future World.

Certainly you can understand that.

[Bryan Schwegler]

Like it or not, bars are an integral part of the Lakewood economy. I think a neat idea would be for the city to get land around the West End and build a metered parking garage ala Conventry to increase parking and help cultivate an "entertainment district" within the city. This would help alleviate parking and hopefully some disruption on the side streets and possibly bring more people into the "district".

Of course hand in hand with this would be incentives and policies to help bring in or maintain those bars and trendy restaurants that Lakewood would like to see more of while discouraging the "punch palaces" and bed neighbors from doing business here.

Now do I believe the mayor or city council has enough vision or leadership to pull of anything creative? That's another story...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bryan

I have taken part in meetings for a "entertainment zone." Bar owners that were there were ready to take the initiative to provide a place for more police. I think some of it has been put on hold to see why the city would build a parking lot at the far end of the "zone." instead of closer to the middle.

Let's not forget that the Coventry parking lot was not built for drinkers, but for shoppers and eaters. Also to provide the same effect the zone would have to have three of these garages, or they are too far away. Are you ready to commit millions to park drunks? Are you ready to dive up trash collection, to pay for these lots? Do you have any idea how much money ALL the bars in Lakewood bring in?

.

[Bryan Schwegler]

I'm absolutely willing to invest the money there to do this. The risk must be taken.

By adding parking it will make it more attractive for customers and business owners to come and use that area. Cultivating trendy restaurants and popular bars in the are would be great. Parking would also bring more stores and shops and make it easier for people to use them.

To assume that the parking would only be used by "drunks" is naive at best. With the "right" mix of great restaurants, shops, and bars it could really rejuvenate that area and bring more business to Lakewood.

Is it a gamble? Of course, but in business the one thing that I've learned is that it takes big risks to have big payoffs. If keep running away from big ideas we'll stagnate. Creative ideas and not being afraid of change is what will help transform Lakewood into the place where the "creative class" would want to live, work, and play.

[Kenneth Warren]

Stephen:

I believe you paint too broad a brush in your open source recap of the conversation to the detriment of community trust, discretion and particulars.

During our initial conversation, Steve and Jim were watching a video away from our table. We were revisiting the community currency idea. I spoke about the generally negative reaction to the idea of community currency and said it is unsuited for Lakewood’s individualist culture. While noting the price move in silver from $5 to over $12 an ounce was a once in a lifetime move, I remarked the city missed the opportunity to profit from a silver-backed community currency note, but that nobody would spend the note in anticipation of turning a profit anyway. To say there is no political will or social interest in such a currency experiment does not signal ineptness among local politicians, simply that the agents, conditions and values are not established here for such an implementationWe did speak about how programs in the visionary alignment could and could not advance by degrees in Lakewood. We wondered whether or not local politicians had any interest in these wildly ambitious and quite possibly ridiculous ideas. That they probably do not might well signal wisdom on their part rather than ineptness.

When Steve and Jim joined us, I was expressing my concern that politicians making decisions about the Grow Lakewood Report understand that the Cushman and backyard trash removal hold enormous symbolic value for some people in the high tax/high service Lakewood quality of life calculus. I said the Cushman and quality schools bring Lakewood home buyers from Elyria.


Kenneth Warren

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Arrrggg.....

What in Sam Hill is goin' on here? - I see posted getting deleted, moving from here to there, being edited, etc... Can someone post the Cliff's notes, cuz I just aint that bright to keep up with all this shuffling...

It makes a conversation REALLY hard to follow, guys!

Confused,
~Charyn

[Stephen Calhoun]

I've deleted all three of my posts. They served their experimental purpose. I retain them.

Last night I was characterized as a pissing and masturbating monkey. Today Jim and Steve would arbitrate my vested interests, and remind me of where I stand in their concocted "Lakewood chain of being".

Ken, you wrote.

I believe you paint too broad a brush in your open source recap of the conversation to the detriment of community trust, discretion and particulars.

You're being charitable here, but, in the vectors of trust, discretion, and particulars this monkey doth protest the double standard.

What we're on about is this: public boosterism and private cynicism. This is part of the Lakewood to be well known, right?

[Grace O'Malley]

I hope this is taken in the manner it is intended, which is with the best interest of all parties here.


Wouldn't this conversation be best continued in private? It's getting much too personal, and much too "soap-opera-esque." Do you really want to air this in public?

It's nice outside. Take a break, cool off, and put your collective brainpower to better use.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Grace


Of course you are right.



.

[dl meckes]

Arrrggg.....

What in Sam Hill is goin' on here? - I see posted getting deleted, moving from here to there, being edited, etc... Can someone post the Cliff's notes, cuz I just aint that bright to keep up with all this shuffling...

It makes a conversation REALLY hard to follow, guys!

Confused,
~Charyn

Charyn-

Some of the posts have been deleted or edited by their authors.

It does make things confusing. No administrator has deleted or edited posts.

[Bill Call]

What bothers me most about this situation is the complete lack of forward thinking on the part of City officials.

Their idea of planning is the calendar on the wall marking off the days until retirement.

[Stan Austin]

Good Friend Bill----

Your wild literary roundhouses might cause some mirth but they detract from any credibility you might seek in anything else you post or write.

Stan

[Bill Call]

Good Friend Bill----

Your wild literary roundhouses might cause some mirth but they detract from any credibility you might seek in anything else you post or write.

Stan

You are always the gentleman. My favorite literary roundhouse was the headline in Variety reporting on the movie tastes or rural residents:
HICKS NIX STICKS PIX. Anyway...

I suppose I could be wrong.

A Lazerwash wants the City to change the zoning for some lots on 117th
from residential to commercial so a car wash can be built.

That area of 117th is close to I-90 and the new Target and Giant Eagle. What is the City's long term plan for that area? Did they seek out Lazerwash as part of a larger vision for that area? Is that the best use of that land? Do they envision a series of auto detailing shops or something else? What does the City see for that area in 5 year?

The developers of Rockport are planning on building a parking garage to accomodate the residential and retail that they expect to build. How does the City envision that area in 5 years? What type of buildings? What type of businesses? Would the City be better off buying some of those beat up apartment buildings in that area and tearing them down for parking? That would negate the need for a parking garage and free up the developers money for a different use.

The Cleveland Clinic may build a small structure on the old Doc Heaben's lot. Are they building there to be a good neighbor and help out the development? Or do they have bigger plans? Would the City be better off if the structure was built on 117th as part of a larger series of medical buidlings?

Does the City have any tenant preference for the soon to be vacant Bunts Road Giant Eagle?

The City is losing population. Cuyahoga County is losing population. Can 27,000 housing units still be kept occupied? What is the City's housing strategy? How many homes? How many people? What level of service do they envision in 3 years?

How competetive will the City be with a 3% property tax rate and a 3% income tax rate?

Is the City an observer or a participant in the planning process? What type of plan? The 1993 plan called for the development of more car dealerships. Is that the plan?

[Bill Call]

I am a bit concerned about the eagerness of the City to use development money to subsidize the punch palace scene. If you were to list the needs of the City where on your list would you place punch palace parking? At the top? At the Bottom? Would it even be on your list?

How would you spend $150,000 in development money?

If all the bars in that area closed tomorrow what would we have lost? Not much. What would we gain? Some peace and quiet and maybe a more mature restaraunt scene.

Some time ago there was an article in the Plain Dealer comparing that area of Lakewood with the East End of the flats. Is that the future we really want for that area?

A blast from the past.

[michael gill]

When that PD story was written about Lakewood as East Side of the Flats was written, it was about this same block of Detroit.

Then as now there are 4 bars on the block.

The beer garden sports bar proposal would add a fifth.