The Bar Based Economy-Lakewood as the East Side of The Flats

[Bill Call]

Which brings to mind that a Trader Joe's would make a great neighbor for Hixon's, maybe with a couple of specialty shops and a small bistro? I think there would be room.

Jeff

A Trader Joe's would bring a certain panache. The lots proximity to Rockport would help that development attract other "trendy" retailers.

A Trader's Joe's would make a statement about the City. So would a Super Marc's or a really big boobie bar. Which would you rather have?

If the City has unlimited funds I guess we can afford punch park parking subsidies; if not maybe we should wait for a better opportunity.

I wonder if anyone in the development department has contacted Giant Eagel or Trader Joe's?

[Jeff Endress]

Bill Inquired:

A Trader's Joe's would make a statement about the City. So would a Super Marc's or a really big boobie bar. Which would you rather have?

My wife and I BOTH agree we don't need a big boobie bar.

Don't really know what is "super" about a super marc's.....

Yeah, give me a Wild Oats, Mustard seed, Trader Joes

Jeff

[Stan Austin]

Jeff--- You contact Mustard Seed------

Bill--- You contact Trader Joe's

And I'll go contact....................

[Joan Roberts]

One quick comment to Mr. O.

I had the opportunity (duty) to be in the Warren area this week and picked up the newspaper, which had a review of the new Aladdin's restaurant in Boardman.
Quoting...

"It is one of about 20 Aladdin's in several states, and the Lakewood based chainis responsible for introducing many to Middle Eastern food."

My question/comment. What if there's a Jim O'Bryan in Boardman who is as anti-chain as our own and believes Boardman residents should only patrornize Boardman-owned businesses. Wouldn't that attitude pretty much hurt a Lakewood business, which is now more than just a restaurant, it is a multi-state food service operation?
Just something to chew on, if you'll pardon the expression

[DougHuntingdon]

As a former Boardman resident, I can tell you that the jeanie is already out of Aladdin's bottle with the amount of chains they have. I don't understand why there is so much chain bashing, though, as many chains are good. When I read this board, I often feel like I am watching discussions among central planners in the USSR.

Doug

[dl meckes]

The problem with national chains is the "malling" of America.

Every place becomes the same. Every town is interchangeable. Anything unique is wiped away.

When visiting the Bay Area, do I want to visit the Jack London Square Bed, Bath and Beyond or the Telegraph Avenue Bed, Bath and Beyond or do I want to purchase my towels at the downtown San Francisco Bed, Bath and Beyond? Are they any different than the North Olmsted Bed, Bath and Beyond? (No offense to B, B & B).

There's some town we pass through to get to North Canton that's just all malls and chains. It's hideous!

That's my fear.

But I forgot to add that my favorite place to shop is Target and that we're happy about Lowe's potentially coming closer to Lakewood than Brooklyn. I still regularly go to smaller hardware stores and I miss Bobson's more than I can say.

And I'd love Trader Joe's, Heinen's or Regos to come to Bunts & Detroit.

[Jim O'Bryan]

DL

The area North of North Canton is Belden Village the only city in Ohio with no residents. One urban legend is that some members of the community thought their taxes were to high after their children graduated from schools and needed a little economic development to offset taxes. Slowly neighborhood by neighborhood was sold off to developers, until there were no residents left!

On a more serious level, another problem is the amount of room needed. Mall stores, like Applebees, Target, etc need massive lots, that just adds to dead zones. That work great in malls, but kill a walking community. What I describe as a dead zone could also be called breaks between shopping districts. A good example on Madison is Player's Pizza, Cottage of Flowers, Spin Bicycle Shop, then 1.5 block before you get to Scents and Accents, then another block and a half before you get to more gift shops.

I think Lakewood, the walkable community, needs to address this, to bring in more outside business. Large parking lots make this problem worse. Lakewood should look at is putting more stores on the streets and more parking behind the stores.

It is not that I am anti-chains. As I mentioned, they take up way too much space and generally do not fit Lakewood's situation. A perfect example is access. I love Breadsmith, though I think the breads at Bavarian, and Elmwood Bakery are as good or better. Chipotle, Taco Bell, and Boston Market serve some. But El Tango, Vila Zapata, Mi Pueblo kicks their butts in taste, quality and value. I could see an Apple store as an anchor for a four block high tech area. I could see where some low volume chains could make it. I have often talked about an idea to put high end English Tudor buildings down Detroit from Summit to Warren. High end shops in front, with office space above and artist lofts on the third/fourth floor. Like the buildings on Mayfield and Lee. These stores could be chain store just like Crocker Park. I am not anti-chain, I am not sure how they fit into the Lakewood model.

Alladin's is a great example how I see Lakewood, with our limitations in access and parking. A incubator for Alladins, Vila Zapata, Mi Pueblo, Lion n Blue, etc. I think building an area like Tremont, Berkley, Coventry to be much more beneficial to ALL Lakewoodites, much easier, cheaper and has better staying power than any "chain."

I prefer good neighbors over a couple quick non secure tax dollars.

[Joan Roberts]

I prefer good neighbors over a couple quick non secure tax dollars.

This is the one I want to challenge you on. The idea that chains of whatever stripe come in, grab a couple of bucks, and close up, just isn't supported by facts.
I'm wracking my brain trying to think of chains that recently closed operations in Lakweood. Yes, Medic and Big Boy are gone, but they're gone everywhere. McDonalds, Taco Bell, BK, Dominos, Donatos, Walgreens, CVS, Speedway are here for the duration. In that time, how many small "good neighbors" have come and gone? Who's a better neighbor, Donato's or Sherwin Williams who are expanding or Fairchild, who's pulled out of the community that supported it for who knows how many years?
Local businesses can be good neighbors, yes, but under-capitalized and perhaps poorly managed ones, too.
And ANY business will do what it needs to do to improve its bottom line, even if it means abandoning the community that originally nurtured it.
Let's look at business from a tough, bottom-line business perspective, not a romantic one. Better results, less disappointment.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan

You left out Beef Corral, oh they are gone. Woolworth's, oh they are gone, Arthur Treacher's oh they are gone, and others.

I would say I have no problem with chains, when they fit Lakewood. It is when they need the mall, the massive parking lot, that they bother me. I have no problem with IHOP I have been there twice. Once to remember the old days, and learned the pancakes just do not measure up, and a second time as I was at a Kiwanis Meeting, and learned the eggs and home fries do not measure up either. Does not mean I need to stop others from going. Others might like fake syrup with fake blueberry stuff. I like Ohio Maple Syrup and real blueberries.

So I guess my questions on chains is can they fit, without us giving up the very things that have not only made Lakewood Lakewood. But the very things that will protect and save this city in the future.

Joan a couple of us go on walks of the city, and fields trips to other cities. I would love to get you to come along. the group could use your unique input and I think you would enjoy the banter and over analizations. Lately we have been looking for the perfect pizza.

Let me know, maybe we could do a chain.

.

[Kenneth Warren]

Last night at bella several members of the LO advisory board had an interesting and deeply nuanced discussion about Planning and Development, the role of an aroused citizenry and how communal conceits and individualist values play into two platforms that charge the Wood's affectual ecology, that is, how people feel about Lakewood.

These two semantic platforms are: 1)"the Lakewood that We Want" (Planning); 2) "the Lakewood that I Get" (Development).

I provide this semantic platform with the planning and development plug-ins because, we know that the Planning and Development team is now reading and posting to the Board. Inputs and clarifications are useful to the language game and meaning making powers of an aroused citizenry, the dramatic thrust of the LO experiment.

Ms. Roberts' post raises a point that hooks neatly into the discussion - how the tough bottom line must be a measure to our sense of things, a point to which I agree. Donato's Pizza is noted as a good business neighbor of the chain variety.

Does Lakewood need to entice and grow these chains with economic incentives?

At last Monday's city council meeting, one item of business included the first reading of a request from this D's franchise owner for City assistance in the amount of $50,000.

Because details were not discussed, I was not sure if Lakewood taxpayers are expected to "Respect the Pizza" with a loan, a partially forgivable one or an outright grant. The purpose for the assistance is, roughly speaking I believe, to allow for an expansion of parking, with the added amenity of a bank machine. County Brown Field assistance is also in the mix. And the owner put some capital into the deal as well. The owner purchased the auto repair shop next door.

We spend a lot of time huffing and puffing in the wind about the retail we'd like to see. Our divergent tastes are as mixed as the demographics of our mixed economy.

With parking subsidy deals for pizza and punch palace zones on the City Council docket, is it really parking that will give us "the Lakewood We Want?"

How does Planning and Development figure out what and who are constructing or have constructed "The Lakewood We Want?"

Does development really boil down to "The Lakewood that I Get?"

Is there any the target area to achieve "The Lakewood We Want" (that ever fleeting retail mix from the chain gangs - Applebee's, Trader Joe's, Costco, Cheesecake Factory, you name it.)

Does the royal or rag-tag we even play a role in "The Lakewood I get" under the strict discipline of market?

Speaking personally, I am not a fan of the public/private retail development arrangement with the chain gangs.

Again speaking personally and idiosyncratically, I say if Lakewood reallly wants to "Respect the Pizza" let's create a subsidy to bring to the Wood the real deal - a New Haven, Brooklyn, thin crust coal oven operator and have him set up shop on a strip targeted for restaurant row. At the same time I understand from Hungry Howie and Papa John fans that is very likely not "The Lakewood We Want."

Kenneth Warren

[Joan Roberts]

With parking subsidy deals for pizza and punch palace zones on the City Council docket, is it really parking that will give us "the Lakewood We Want?"

I am opposed to virtually any subsidy for individual private businesses for any reason.
That said, what "Lakewood We Want", it's going to have to involve some kind of parking solution. Tell me, as a Gold Coaster, how I'm going to patronize any business in Lakewood, chain or local, without getting in my car. Like computerized cash registers, cars are here to stay.

And hey,Mr. O. Beef Corral? Now we're talking archaeology1

[Stephen Calhoun]

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Stephen

I could of sworn we were talking of Monkeys, Freud and the cruel wind that blows in daily from the east? Remember the future of Lakewood talk, while one mischief maker fondly remember Black Cat firecrackers as a child. I remember watching puppets vomit, the the owner forcing white chocolate cookies onus just like the old lady in the hairnet used to at the back door of Sears with day old dogs. I remember sitting in the kids section while watching a movie, so that we could see what was so nice about the area. Talk of pizza, and many laughs. But the rest of your list is complete off base. But I do not know Lakewood as well as you.

I am willing to bet the other three would agree.

I fear LO's favorite monkey is, well you know, monkeying around with that post.

[Jim O'Bryan]

This is what I meant by f'k'n with Lakewood, Jim; getting hold of the reality and riding visionary pragmatics and civic chops to concrete, rather than fantastic, opportunities.

Stephen

Let's be honest. This is what you mean when you get caught. Much like the small lad that gets caught do something wrong and looks up at mom and says, "I was only trying to help." When in fact the only thing that was being done is you were touching dad's tools, looking in the drawer you were not allowed, opening sis's diary, or taking grandma's magnifying glass to go burn some ants on the way to tie firecracker's to the cat's tail. My point when we get to this discussion is, what is the point outside of some masochistic thrill you get in your faux doctor's robes yelling "schwing" because you are not urban enough to grab your tool.

Rarely does good come from throwing the pebble into the still pond, with the single exception of the entertainment of the thrower. Who, much like one of the topics from last night, fits perfectly into the description of the problem. No vested interest in the city. A petri dish, pay check, toy, therapy, cat waiting for the firecracker. While some of us have decided to make out stand here with investments, time, effort and taking the time to ask which way we are rowing before we sit down at the oar.

My problem, and I admit it is a big one. I have found that it takes the same amount of effort to make positive impacts, as negative. While it is perceived to be easier to destroy.

FWIW


.

[Stephen Calhoun]

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