Lakewood City Budget
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Dee Rogozinski
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:36 am
Lakewood City Budget
On Saturday, January 14, 2006, I attended a public meeting called by Councilman Ryan Demro; the subject which was for and against the proposed Lakewood city income tax increase. Tellingly, no other councilperson attended this meeting.
Last month, I had discussions with Mr. Vic Nogalo, Lakewood Finance Director, after I challenged the mayor to “do more with lessâ€Â. Mr. Nogalo listed ways in which the city had begun cost savings.
I took away from the January 14th public meeting more questions and a few “I did not know that†observations. Let me share my further thoughts.
My questions would be:
WHY does Lakewood have it’s own water department? The Lakewood water department says it can give top notch, timely service, but it was pointed out in the January 14th public meeting that Rocky River, which gets sewer and water services from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District, does not have water spouts gushing from it’s streets.
WHY does Lakewood have it’s own health department? The point was brought forth at the same meeting that the city of Parma (where I grew up) does not have it’s own health department, but I have not heard of people getting sick and dying from eating in Parma restaurants.
WHY is Lakewood garbage pick up not privatized? The Lakewood garbage department did an INTERNAL study showing that they were as costly as private garbage pickup, but I question the validity of that study. Was this internal study structured to be self preservation?
Did you know the following?
Part time city council persons and their families are eligible for the city health insurance benefits? This is the taxpayer funded, Cadillac of health insurance: little or no premiums and no co-pays. Note that most council people have full-time jobs elsewhere with health insurance already being offered.
Another question is when was the last time bids were put out for the underwriting of the city health insurance?
Did you know that the city of Lakewood bond rating is below “A†grade?
Did you know that Finance Committee chairperson Bob Seelie has failed to call for meetings for public discussion input on the city budget?
Did you know that two years ago public comment at council meetings was moved to the end of council meetings (sometimes ending at 11 p.m. or 1 a.m.) from where public questions were at the beginning of council meetings? This is a subtle suppression of public involvement.
Did you know that police and fire contracts have a “me, too†clause in them?
Did you know that one of the city personnel contracts will receive a raise of up to 5% at some point in the life of the contract?
Lastly, did you know that at the sunset of the Cain mayoralty, administrative workers were allowed to unionize?
I still say that more can be done to cut the city budget; that we need a long term plans for the city budget and that we need public input into the budget. Please contact your councilperson and mayor.
Last month, I had discussions with Mr. Vic Nogalo, Lakewood Finance Director, after I challenged the mayor to “do more with lessâ€Â. Mr. Nogalo listed ways in which the city had begun cost savings.
I took away from the January 14th public meeting more questions and a few “I did not know that†observations. Let me share my further thoughts.
My questions would be:
WHY does Lakewood have it’s own water department? The Lakewood water department says it can give top notch, timely service, but it was pointed out in the January 14th public meeting that Rocky River, which gets sewer and water services from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District, does not have water spouts gushing from it’s streets.
WHY does Lakewood have it’s own health department? The point was brought forth at the same meeting that the city of Parma (where I grew up) does not have it’s own health department, but I have not heard of people getting sick and dying from eating in Parma restaurants.
WHY is Lakewood garbage pick up not privatized? The Lakewood garbage department did an INTERNAL study showing that they were as costly as private garbage pickup, but I question the validity of that study. Was this internal study structured to be self preservation?
Did you know the following?
Part time city council persons and their families are eligible for the city health insurance benefits? This is the taxpayer funded, Cadillac of health insurance: little or no premiums and no co-pays. Note that most council people have full-time jobs elsewhere with health insurance already being offered.
Another question is when was the last time bids were put out for the underwriting of the city health insurance?
Did you know that the city of Lakewood bond rating is below “A†grade?
Did you know that Finance Committee chairperson Bob Seelie has failed to call for meetings for public discussion input on the city budget?
Did you know that two years ago public comment at council meetings was moved to the end of council meetings (sometimes ending at 11 p.m. or 1 a.m.) from where public questions were at the beginning of council meetings? This is a subtle suppression of public involvement.
Did you know that police and fire contracts have a “me, too†clause in them?
Did you know that one of the city personnel contracts will receive a raise of up to 5% at some point in the life of the contract?
Lastly, did you know that at the sunset of the Cain mayoralty, administrative workers were allowed to unionize?
I still say that more can be done to cut the city budget; that we need a long term plans for the city budget and that we need public input into the budget. Please contact your councilperson and mayor.
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Charyn Varkonyi
Very interesting. Even more so when taken in conjunction with the current thread on the plight of LH since the Clinic's involvement.
The original planning that gave Lakewood its own hospital, water treatment facilities, sanitation and health departments, etc. was geared around creating a community that was self sufficient. Employment for many early Lakewoodites was from the city itself and it is my understanding that some time ago it was a requirement for a city worker to live within the city itself thus ensuring that the income provided was kept within our own borders.
Clearly, that provision was long negotiated away and the debate about whether that was a good thing or not is better kept in another thread
Back to the perceived 'waste' of taxpayers money in maintaining these departments...
I would only add to those who would support subcontracting all/some of our services: "Be careful what you ask for..."
All of these can be subcontracted to regional authorities and/or providers. HOWEVER - the decisions of those authorities/providers would be based upon their regional goals and strategies and NOT on what is best for the City of Lakewood.
It well may be the right thing in some areas... but I recommend that we, as a community, tread VERY carefully before storming city hall
Peace,
~Charyn
The original planning that gave Lakewood its own hospital, water treatment facilities, sanitation and health departments, etc. was geared around creating a community that was self sufficient. Employment for many early Lakewoodites was from the city itself and it is my understanding that some time ago it was a requirement for a city worker to live within the city itself thus ensuring that the income provided was kept within our own borders.
Clearly, that provision was long negotiated away and the debate about whether that was a good thing or not is better kept in another thread
Back to the perceived 'waste' of taxpayers money in maintaining these departments...
I would only add to those who would support subcontracting all/some of our services: "Be careful what you ask for..."
All of these can be subcontracted to regional authorities and/or providers. HOWEVER - the decisions of those authorities/providers would be based upon their regional goals and strategies and NOT on what is best for the City of Lakewood.
It well may be the right thing in some areas... but I recommend that we, as a community, tread VERY carefully before storming city hall
Peace,
~Charyn
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Suzanne Metelko
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:55 pm
Excellent points. What we're dealing with is an undeveloped vision.
1. Lakewood supports regionalization
2. Lakewood want to be a self-sufficient town, and perhaps one of the leading providers of jobs to residents
3. A little of each?
Without understanding who we were, who we are and where we want to be in five years, we can't possibly make responsible decisions about the budget.
If our vision and our strategic plan is number 2 then we need to reexamine our employment structure and our HR policies and figure out what it will take to keep our services in house. And we need to project out the anticipated revenue needed to continue. And that's just the beginning.
If our vision and strategic plan is number 1 then we need to determine which services are best suited to integration, the projected cost benefit as well as do a clear apples to apples of services provided. And that's just the beginning.
From the vision we develop goals and strategies. We need to make some decisions. In my opinion, we continue to make minor and in some cases (RITA) major adjustments to our city's management structure without rhyme or reason. If our vision is number 1 then bringing RITA in house doesn't make sense. If our vision is number 2 then getting rid of the water department doesn't make sense. The role of a community hospital factors heavily into this too.
It is too easy to cut services or raise taxes. Management is understanding the relationship that each decision has on a myriad of other variables. I'm not sure we truly understand that the management is a rubic's cube. You make one adjustment and it affects dollars, timelines, jobs, and changes the future.
I think we could really use some professional help. I think we need a community discussion on the topic. A community planning session would be instrumental in bringing concensus to our community vision and get us moving in a measurable, responsible and responsive manner.
1. Lakewood supports regionalization
2. Lakewood want to be a self-sufficient town, and perhaps one of the leading providers of jobs to residents
3. A little of each?
Without understanding who we were, who we are and where we want to be in five years, we can't possibly make responsible decisions about the budget.
If our vision and our strategic plan is number 2 then we need to reexamine our employment structure and our HR policies and figure out what it will take to keep our services in house. And we need to project out the anticipated revenue needed to continue. And that's just the beginning.
If our vision and strategic plan is number 1 then we need to determine which services are best suited to integration, the projected cost benefit as well as do a clear apples to apples of services provided. And that's just the beginning.
From the vision we develop goals and strategies. We need to make some decisions. In my opinion, we continue to make minor and in some cases (RITA) major adjustments to our city's management structure without rhyme or reason. If our vision is number 1 then bringing RITA in house doesn't make sense. If our vision is number 2 then getting rid of the water department doesn't make sense. The role of a community hospital factors heavily into this too.
It is too easy to cut services or raise taxes. Management is understanding the relationship that each decision has on a myriad of other variables. I'm not sure we truly understand that the management is a rubic's cube. You make one adjustment and it affects dollars, timelines, jobs, and changes the future.
I think we could really use some professional help. I think we need a community discussion on the topic. A community planning session would be instrumental in bringing concensus to our community vision and get us moving in a measurable, responsible and responsive manner.
“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.â€
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Adding a couple of thoughts to the mix....
Years ago, I lived in a place where I had to pay for private garbage pickup. It was $15 a month, and big stuff was extra. I'd like to know the average household's contribution to trash removal before I beat the drum to privatize.
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Lakewood's sewers are 100 years old in spots. Is joining the regional water authority going to relieve us of the financial burden of fixing them? I find that hard to believe.
///
I don't lay awake at night consumed by resentment because our councilmen get health care. Right now, we pay our council people a pretty meager wage for the experience of getting called at 2 a.m. because the cops aren't responding quickly enough to a complaint. Nobody should run for council for the money or benefits, but if the compensation is mediocre, how can we complain when our best and brightest take a pass? Everyone has made good points here. Glad to have the forum.
Years ago, I lived in a place where I had to pay for private garbage pickup. It was $15 a month, and big stuff was extra. I'd like to know the average household's contribution to trash removal before I beat the drum to privatize.
///
Lakewood's sewers are 100 years old in spots. Is joining the regional water authority going to relieve us of the financial burden of fixing them? I find that hard to believe.
///
I don't lay awake at night consumed by resentment because our councilmen get health care. Right now, we pay our council people a pretty meager wage for the experience of getting called at 2 a.m. because the cops aren't responding quickly enough to a complaint. Nobody should run for council for the money or benefits, but if the compensation is mediocre, how can we complain when our best and brightest take a pass? Everyone has made good points here. Glad to have the forum.
- Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Suzanne
I agree with much of what you said.
But why look five years down the road, lets look thirty.
The future is not as hard to predict as it was. We have some constants.
Water value goes up. = We must retain all service that have to do with water, while trying to find out how we can gain access rights.
Oil goes through the roof = We redevelop the walkable city that we had 80 years ago.
Currency - American currency is still falling. If Lakewood had created Community Currency when it was first suggested. The Lakewood Dollar would be worth three times what the America one is.
Fun = When things get tough, and they are only going to get tougher. People like fun.
.
I agree with much of what you said.
But why look five years down the road, lets look thirty.
The future is not as hard to predict as it was. We have some constants.
Water value goes up. = We must retain all service that have to do with water, while trying to find out how we can gain access rights.
Oil goes through the roof = We redevelop the walkable city that we had 80 years ago.
Currency - American currency is still falling. If Lakewood had created Community Currency when it was first suggested. The Lakewood Dollar would be worth three times what the America one is.
Fun = When things get tough, and they are only going to get tougher. People like fun.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Suzanne Metelko
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:55 pm
All good reasons to encourage community planning. I think our leaders are grossly underpaid too, but I'd like to confirm that with the appropriate studies.
I look at what was accomplished with the School's Fifty Year Committee. I think the city could take a lesson. And while I know this isn't everyone's idea of fun - I think it could be.
I look at what was accomplished with the School's Fifty Year Committee. I think the city could take a lesson. And while I know this isn't everyone's idea of fun - I think it could be.
“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.â€
- Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Suzanne Metelko wrote:I look at what was accomplished with the School's Fifty Year Committee. I think the city could take a lesson. And while I know this isn't everyone's idea of fun - I think it could be.
I think it could be great fun.
I know Savannah Farris had a blast conducting surveys and talking with people about their dreams for the future. Her plans were breathtaking and feasible.
Get a feel where the CITY wants to go, and then bring on the Pros to work the numbers. This city is pretty deep in talent.
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Charyn Varkonyi
Suzanne Metelko wrote:Without understanding who we were, who we are and where we want to be in five years, we can't possibly make responsible decisions about the budget.
<snip>
It is too easy to cut services or raise taxes. Management is understanding the relationship that each decision has on a myriad of other variables. I'm not sure we truly understand that the management is a rubic's cube. You make one adjustment and it affects dollars, timelines, jobs, and changes the future.
<snip>
You hit the nail on the head.
Is there any initiative currently in place to evaluate the city's mission and strategic goals? I whole-heartedly agree that we must make sure we are putting the cart before the horse in order to be the most effective. It may put off a couple decisions for a few months... but it could save us thousands in the long run thought effective decision making.
Best,
~Charyn
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dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Dee -
Let me address one of your comments.
The public comment section of council was moved two years ago because of the sheer volume of commentors, generally related to the West End Project.
Were you to attend council meetings, you would find that more frequently than not, if a citizen has a comment about a particular agenda item, he or she is called upon to speak as the issue is addressed.
As has been the case for as long as I can remember, citizen comments are limited to three minutes, but I have also heard the period extended if council members or department heads have questions or answers for the citizen.
The council docket also shows that proclamations and such are the last items on the agenda, but these are almost always the first items of business of council.
It is rare that council meetings last more than a couple of hours.
I go to council meetings as often as I can and I suggest you try to attend a few sessions for yourself. I have been dropping in on council on and off over at least a ten year period (and probably longer).
I have also attended meetings of many of the various citizen boards - even the council of the whole. While some of the boards may go into a brief executive session which is not open to the public, the majority of each meeting is open to the public any time they choose to sit in.
Let's make this two points:
The budget hearings are open to the public, but Observer reporter Stan Austin says that he is a lonely fellow. He saw one other citizen who briefly came in to one of the hearings.
We have posted the hours of the hearings both on the Observation Deck and on the Event calendar of the Lakewood Observer.
I'm pretty sure the city has the hearing hours posted on their web site, but I'm too lazy to look for myself.
Here is what is upcoming:
Saturday 28th 9am: Public Works
Monday 30th 6pm: Joint City Council/ School Board
Tuesday 31st 6pm: Human Services
Wednesday February 1, 6pm: Administrative Offices
The hearings will be in the City Hall Auditorium.
Let me address one of your comments.
The public comment section of council was moved two years ago because of the sheer volume of commentors, generally related to the West End Project.
Were you to attend council meetings, you would find that more frequently than not, if a citizen has a comment about a particular agenda item, he or she is called upon to speak as the issue is addressed.
As has been the case for as long as I can remember, citizen comments are limited to three minutes, but I have also heard the period extended if council members or department heads have questions or answers for the citizen.
The council docket also shows that proclamations and such are the last items on the agenda, but these are almost always the first items of business of council.
It is rare that council meetings last more than a couple of hours.
I go to council meetings as often as I can and I suggest you try to attend a few sessions for yourself. I have been dropping in on council on and off over at least a ten year period (and probably longer).
I have also attended meetings of many of the various citizen boards - even the council of the whole. While some of the boards may go into a brief executive session which is not open to the public, the majority of each meeting is open to the public any time they choose to sit in.
Let's make this two points:
The budget hearings are open to the public, but Observer reporter Stan Austin says that he is a lonely fellow. He saw one other citizen who briefly came in to one of the hearings.
We have posted the hours of the hearings both on the Observation Deck and on the Event calendar of the Lakewood Observer.
I'm pretty sure the city has the hearing hours posted on their web site, but I'm too lazy to look for myself.
Here is what is upcoming:
Saturday 28th 9am: Public Works
Monday 30th 6pm: Joint City Council/ School Board
Tuesday 31st 6pm: Human Services
Wednesday February 1, 6pm: Administrative Offices
The hearings will be in the City Hall Auditorium.
“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
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Grace O'Malley
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:31 pm
he budget hearings are open to the public, but Observer reporter Stan Austin says that he is a lonely fellow. He saw one other citizen who briefly came in to one of the hearings.
This is very telling.
As soon as there was an inkling that the city was proposing a tax increase, there was immediate vocal opposition. Everybody has an opinion on how the city should be run and how the money should be spent.
Yet who actually knows or understands what financial pressures the city is facing?
It's very easy to say No New Taxes, but is it based on actual knowledge or just a knee jerk aversion to paying more tax?
In all this discussion, it has yet to be acknowledged by anyone that the city may need additional revenues just to maintain its current level of services.
Cutting out backyard pickup wouldn't make a huge dent in the budget. It sounds so self-sacrificing, but its not a major line item.
All the talk about long-range planning is nice, but its just that: LONG RANGE. The city needs money NOW. Not that there shouldn't be any attempt to limit spending, but I don't see how demanding that the city do this long-range planning now, before agreeing to an increase, is anything more than an attempt to block the tax increase.
How many times have we voted on a school levy just because the board said they'd need money over the upcoming years? They didn't wait until they were in a bind and desperate, they looked ahead and said "based on our projections, we'll need an increase in revenue over the next three years to maintain services," and they put a levy up.
As I understand it, the city doesn't even have that luxury. They need money now.
Sure, have your talks and meetings about what you'd like to see long term, but don't think that will make the current crisis go away.
Just how long can you talk about long range goals? Can you drag it out a couple of years? Where were you all 3 years ago?