Joan
What if we cold provide a hybrid bookstore? A bookstore that had new and used books at the same prices as Borders.
What if we could back up that experience with other positive shopping experiences? In the same area?
What if this small specialty store could be on-line as well?
We know why the book store on Marc's Plaza closed, and also both magazine shops. The book store in Marc's Plaza was just too small to compete. Good, yes, great owners, you bet. Lakewood News was run out of town.
I think the right combination would work. No one would get rich, but it could maintain a staff. It would work if the city would support it, just like we should have Bobson our last hardware store.
There are other variations in this that could be like "Books for less" where they sold new books by the pound. It used to be on 18th and Superior for years.
Or what if the group approached Borders about a "Border's Lite" or who knows?
I do not have the answers but I think it helps to kick this around and your thoughts are much appreciated.
.
What would it take for a Crocker Park type area for Lkwd ?
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
-
Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
-
Tom Bullock
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:47 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Very interesting thread and discussion. I'm reading with interest the lessons on shopping days and book store business realities.
The kernel of my idea is this: Lakewood will sink or swim over the long term as a residential neighborhood. It would greatly enhance its attractiveness as a neighborhood if it had a cute, attractive shopping district with Crocker levels of cleanliness, newness, marketing, and choice. To go another step further, combine this shopping with sidewalk cafes where people can stroll, read the paper, people watch, bump into their neighbors. This formula would work especially well in Lakewood, a compact, walkable city.
The concept of an outdoor market could help kickstart such a sidewalk culture shopping district. Saturday AM (or Sunday mid-day) would be the best time to give the most people the chance to come out and stroll, browse, shop, then have a cup of coffee at a cafe. Ideally the market is in the midst of other shops, not in an abandoned parking lot off the main drag.
Book store: could the business model be half coffee shop, half book store? In Washington DC there is a famous, long-time successful bookstore/restaraunt/coffee shop called Kramer Books & Afterwards. They even used to have live music, and they were open all night (2 am & beyond). My point is if economic reailities mean the only viable bookstore is a mega-Borders, can the store we envision for Lakewood rely on other income streams? Food, etc? I'd use it regularly as a hang-out...
The kernel of my idea is this: Lakewood will sink or swim over the long term as a residential neighborhood. It would greatly enhance its attractiveness as a neighborhood if it had a cute, attractive shopping district with Crocker levels of cleanliness, newness, marketing, and choice. To go another step further, combine this shopping with sidewalk cafes where people can stroll, read the paper, people watch, bump into their neighbors. This formula would work especially well in Lakewood, a compact, walkable city.
The concept of an outdoor market could help kickstart such a sidewalk culture shopping district. Saturday AM (or Sunday mid-day) would be the best time to give the most people the chance to come out and stroll, browse, shop, then have a cup of coffee at a cafe. Ideally the market is in the midst of other shops, not in an abandoned parking lot off the main drag.
Book store: could the business model be half coffee shop, half book store? In Washington DC there is a famous, long-time successful bookstore/restaraunt/coffee shop called Kramer Books & Afterwards. They even used to have live music, and they were open all night (2 am & beyond). My point is if economic reailities mean the only viable bookstore is a mega-Borders, can the store we envision for Lakewood rely on other income streams? Food, etc? I'd use it regularly as a hang-out...
-
Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Tom.
I am very familiar with Kramerbooks & Afterwords, as it is in one of my favorite areas of DC, Dupont Circle. (yes, as of last August at least, it still had live music, food, and even, I believe, at least a beer/wine license). The bookstore and the area it is in is certainly an inspiration for those of us who enjoy mixed residential-retail neighborhoods. It's also interesting that this store seems to do better than a chain store just a few steps away. There are always exceptions to any rule.
Dupont Circle, alas, is rather different in its layout and makeup from Lakewood, and as you pointed out, it has a longstanding loyal clientele and is very much a venerated DC institution. Could a similar store open TODAY, in LAKEWOOD, and be successful?
To both you and Jim, the answer is, of course. one never should say never. But it's a long shot, quite a long shot, IMO. As my financial adviser told me, return ON investment is the SECOND thing you look at. Return OF investment is the first. That's why you don't see bookstores in Lakewood, and shouldn't hold your breath.
A final note (an afterword?) to Tom. Your thought regarding books plus other stuff is certainly right. My friend, who knows far more about retail than I, gave me an "experts" tour of a B&N once. When you look at the store's "map", the product mix (cards, calendars, music, etc), and all the other overt and covert messages, you realize just about the last thing B&N wants to sell you is a book. Borders is only slightly better. Food for thought.
I am very familiar with Kramerbooks & Afterwords, as it is in one of my favorite areas of DC, Dupont Circle. (yes, as of last August at least, it still had live music, food, and even, I believe, at least a beer/wine license). The bookstore and the area it is in is certainly an inspiration for those of us who enjoy mixed residential-retail neighborhoods. It's also interesting that this store seems to do better than a chain store just a few steps away. There are always exceptions to any rule.
Dupont Circle, alas, is rather different in its layout and makeup from Lakewood, and as you pointed out, it has a longstanding loyal clientele and is very much a venerated DC institution. Could a similar store open TODAY, in LAKEWOOD, and be successful?
To both you and Jim, the answer is, of course. one never should say never. But it's a long shot, quite a long shot, IMO. As my financial adviser told me, return ON investment is the SECOND thing you look at. Return OF investment is the first. That's why you don't see bookstores in Lakewood, and shouldn't hold your breath.
A final note (an afterword?) to Tom. Your thought regarding books plus other stuff is certainly right. My friend, who knows far more about retail than I, gave me an "experts" tour of a B&N once. When you look at the store's "map", the product mix (cards, calendars, music, etc), and all the other overt and covert messages, you realize just about the last thing B&N wants to sell you is a book. Borders is only slightly better. Food for thought.
-
Bill Call
- Posts: 3319
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:10 pm
Leadership
Any meaningful development will not occur in Lakewood without the leadership of our elected officials. Someone in city government will have to take a stand.
Don't hold your breath. They clutch their pensions like life preservers, afraid to make a decision. They don't realize that failing to make a decision is deciding to do nothing.
Don't hold your breath. They clutch their pensions like life preservers, afraid to make a decision. They don't realize that failing to make a decision is deciding to do nothing.
-
Brad Babcock
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:11 am
- Location: Lakewood, OH
bookstores etc
Even (especially) the giants of book retailing have realized that a straight-up book store may not be a good business model. A hybrid bookstore/music store/coffee shop is the way they have gone. It may well take a variation on this theme to make a bookstore fly, but even that is likely to be a tough go.
As for Marc's shopping center, they have one of the most uninviting parking lots ever created. When I go to any shop there, I usually use one of Lakewood's assets: the municipal parking behind the shops on the other side of Detroit. I also find it convenient to patronize those stores. It is a much better experience for me to walk into Cerny Shoes and get faster, more knowledgeable, and more personalized service than if I do battle at the mall. The big store prices are not always that much (if any) better.
I was dismayed to see most of Lakewood's hardware stores fold-up within a few years of the opening of Home Depot. When working on a project, I find it worth-while to be able to get in and out fast, and have access to a deeper assortment of odd-ball stuff that the big stores don't move enough of to be worth carrying. If anyone takes a drive through the formerly residential streets that surround Home Depot, they will see some frightful things. The homes are boarded-up and vandalized. Rumors have it that there is a Target store soon to go in. One more out-of Lakewood magnet for Lakewood money.
What can we do? We can actively spend our money in Lakewood whenever possible. It only helps ensure our own prosperity.
What would good Lakewood retail look like? Easy access, plentiful parking, friendly to foot traffic, and having unique businesses that have viable business models. To some extent, that exists along Detroit, even though the traffic there is a pain. Other retail areas are struggling. The answer is not necessarily a flashy new shopping center, but anything we can do to promote vibrant retail is a step in the right direction.
As for Marc's shopping center, they have one of the most uninviting parking lots ever created. When I go to any shop there, I usually use one of Lakewood's assets: the municipal parking behind the shops on the other side of Detroit. I also find it convenient to patronize those stores. It is a much better experience for me to walk into Cerny Shoes and get faster, more knowledgeable, and more personalized service than if I do battle at the mall. The big store prices are not always that much (if any) better.
I was dismayed to see most of Lakewood's hardware stores fold-up within a few years of the opening of Home Depot. When working on a project, I find it worth-while to be able to get in and out fast, and have access to a deeper assortment of odd-ball stuff that the big stores don't move enough of to be worth carrying. If anyone takes a drive through the formerly residential streets that surround Home Depot, they will see some frightful things. The homes are boarded-up and vandalized. Rumors have it that there is a Target store soon to go in. One more out-of Lakewood magnet for Lakewood money.
What can we do? We can actively spend our money in Lakewood whenever possible. It only helps ensure our own prosperity.
What would good Lakewood retail look like? Easy access, plentiful parking, friendly to foot traffic, and having unique businesses that have viable business models. To some extent, that exists along Detroit, even though the traffic there is a pain. Other retail areas are struggling. The answer is not necessarily a flashy new shopping center, but anything we can do to promote vibrant retail is a step in the right direction.
-
Mark Crnolatas
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
....
In looking at all these postings, it appears everyone took the view that I was suggesting either we duplicate Crocker Park or actually ask them to build one here.
I didn't mention either. I asked what would it take to have a Crocker Park type THING here much smaller of course . Maybe I wasn't clear, so I'll clarify.
I meant the type of shops, and not necessarily the size of parking ..but yes with parking nearby.
I guess what we need to take a look at is ....why spend money at a store OUT of Lkwd, when if we got creative, we could have that TYPE of store IN Lakewood, so our money remains in our city, uplifting OUR structure.
Good example is lack of hardware stores.
There's a group of people around where I live, none are computer-ized. I'll mention something like this thread to them and I'll get some type of convo going.
To the "I work at Ford plant, come home put my feet up and my wife ferries around my 4 kids all day" house, they think a book store would be what Lakewood News was, minus the X-rated magazines. I used to LOVE that store, and NOT the x-rated part. I used to spend lot of money on magazines, car mags, model car mags, fashion, Military, Jazz magazines, whatever, walk in there and walk out with 20 or 30 dollars in magazines.
The Blue Collar people around my area of our city look for practicality. I do to, actually, to some degree. Detroit is a traffic jam and now someone wants to put more things from the Hospital to the Library? Might be a great idea, but can Detroit or the public, handle or WANT to handle MORE traffic than already is there in that section of Detroit ? That might be something to consider if it hasn't been already.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I'm trying to look at all the angles, pro and con. After 3pm I try to avoid Detroit until after 7ish.
Maybe we don't go out enough, but where in our city can I get hoodies?
A down coat or jacket at a reasonable price?
Nikes I can get at Cerney's. Levies at Geigers I think.
Just some food for thought.
THAT's why I mentioned Crocker Park. Convenience of access, plus some specialty shops such as Victoria's Secret, Baby Gap, Cheesecake Factory.
Maybe we could get some specialty shops too. Not necessarily THOSE ones, but again, I'm just fantasizing keeping our money in our city.
Btw I'm almost as bad as Kenneth too. I'd rather pay a bit more and stay in Lkwd than KNOW I'm spending our money at a similar biz out of our city, when possible at least.
It's just my "thing". *shrug*.
Mark C
I didn't mention either. I asked what would it take to have a Crocker Park type THING here much smaller of course . Maybe I wasn't clear, so I'll clarify.
I meant the type of shops, and not necessarily the size of parking ..but yes with parking nearby.
I guess what we need to take a look at is ....why spend money at a store OUT of Lkwd, when if we got creative, we could have that TYPE of store IN Lakewood, so our money remains in our city, uplifting OUR structure.
Good example is lack of hardware stores.
There's a group of people around where I live, none are computer-ized. I'll mention something like this thread to them and I'll get some type of convo going.
To the "I work at Ford plant, come home put my feet up and my wife ferries around my 4 kids all day" house, they think a book store would be what Lakewood News was, minus the X-rated magazines. I used to LOVE that store, and NOT the x-rated part. I used to spend lot of money on magazines, car mags, model car mags, fashion, Military, Jazz magazines, whatever, walk in there and walk out with 20 or 30 dollars in magazines.
The Blue Collar people around my area of our city look for practicality. I do to, actually, to some degree. Detroit is a traffic jam and now someone wants to put more things from the Hospital to the Library? Might be a great idea, but can Detroit or the public, handle or WANT to handle MORE traffic than already is there in that section of Detroit ? That might be something to consider if it hasn't been already.
I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I'm trying to look at all the angles, pro and con. After 3pm I try to avoid Detroit until after 7ish.
Maybe we don't go out enough, but where in our city can I get hoodies?
A down coat or jacket at a reasonable price?
Nikes I can get at Cerney's. Levies at Geigers I think.
Just some food for thought.
THAT's why I mentioned Crocker Park. Convenience of access, plus some specialty shops such as Victoria's Secret, Baby Gap, Cheesecake Factory.
Maybe we could get some specialty shops too. Not necessarily THOSE ones, but again, I'm just fantasizing keeping our money in our city.
Btw I'm almost as bad as Kenneth too. I'd rather pay a bit more and stay in Lkwd than KNOW I'm spending our money at a similar biz out of our city, when possible at least.
It's just my "thing". *shrug*.
Mark C
-
Brad Babcock
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:11 am
- Location: Lakewood, OH
Lakewood is unique in several factors that effect what will develop with retail.
First, the diversity of our population makes for an eclectic atmosphere
Second, Lakewood's population density is very high
Third, Lakewood was a first-generation suburb, built mostly before things like malls and freeways existed.
Some implications that I see are that Lakewood is a really good place to put big retail (be it a mall or a big-box store) near, but not in.
I don't think we need or want the traffic and congestion that either generates.
Because Lakewood was not designed around centralized shopping, there are few places for it that do not require large-scale re-allocation of existing property uses. What that means is that we have a number of decentralized areas where retail and restaurants spring-up.
Fortunately, by strength of character (of the proprietors and customers), Lakewood has become home to some pretty good small businesses.
I expect we will always have these little zones of retail spread across the city, clustered together in bunches that create "critical mass".
The trick may be to make sure that we have really cool little zones of retail, supported by adequate access, parking, promotion, and patronage. This may require the interest of developers, and the reasonable cooperation of the city.
It only takes a review of some of the other topics in this forum to see encouraging signs. Reminding the participants in this site to try to spend their dollars in Lakewood before going elsewhere is probably preaching to the choir. Best to introduce others to our city's retail and restaurants.
First, the diversity of our population makes for an eclectic atmosphere
Second, Lakewood's population density is very high
Third, Lakewood was a first-generation suburb, built mostly before things like malls and freeways existed.
Some implications that I see are that Lakewood is a really good place to put big retail (be it a mall or a big-box store) near, but not in.
I don't think we need or want the traffic and congestion that either generates.
Because Lakewood was not designed around centralized shopping, there are few places for it that do not require large-scale re-allocation of existing property uses. What that means is that we have a number of decentralized areas where retail and restaurants spring-up.
Fortunately, by strength of character (of the proprietors and customers), Lakewood has become home to some pretty good small businesses.
I expect we will always have these little zones of retail spread across the city, clustered together in bunches that create "critical mass".
The trick may be to make sure that we have really cool little zones of retail, supported by adequate access, parking, promotion, and patronage. This may require the interest of developers, and the reasonable cooperation of the city.
It only takes a review of some of the other topics in this forum to see encouraging signs. Reminding the participants in this site to try to spend their dollars in Lakewood before going elsewhere is probably preaching to the choir. Best to introduce others to our city's retail and restaurants.
-
Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
Mark/Brad
Good points. Of course there is potential for a good small business segment in Lakewood.
My point about the bookstores is that there is a little disconnect between what people in town WANT and what makes sense to the people with the real power, which is the ones with the $$$ to invest. You may want a bookstore, you may even be a loyal customer, but when it comes down to investing $25-50,000 or more just for a startup, there just aren't a lot of takers out there.
That being said, I go back to my point about restaurants. Unlike boostores, there ARE many many independent restaurants doing well (or at least well enough). Lakewood, for all the reasons Brian mentioned, seems absolutely perfect for a restaurant zone that could be a destination for foodies from everywhere. It amazes me that while Lakewood does a good job with "cheap eats" and bar food, there's not much of anything on the creative side. Again, that's just musing. I don't know what the city powers could do to stimulate that.
Another thought (good thing I'm back to work next week, I'm pontificating too much here). Lakewood has high population density yes, but has anyone considered that the area most responsible for the density figures (the Gold Coast and eastern Lake, Edgewater, and Clifton) is nowhere near Lakewood's retail sections? That's my area, and I can tell you that the businesses I can walk to are all in Cleveland, over on Clifton. "Downtown' Lakewood or Madison is not really walkable for me.
Good points. Of course there is potential for a good small business segment in Lakewood.
My point about the bookstores is that there is a little disconnect between what people in town WANT and what makes sense to the people with the real power, which is the ones with the $$$ to invest. You may want a bookstore, you may even be a loyal customer, but when it comes down to investing $25-50,000 or more just for a startup, there just aren't a lot of takers out there.
That being said, I go back to my point about restaurants. Unlike boostores, there ARE many many independent restaurants doing well (or at least well enough). Lakewood, for all the reasons Brian mentioned, seems absolutely perfect for a restaurant zone that could be a destination for foodies from everywhere. It amazes me that while Lakewood does a good job with "cheap eats" and bar food, there's not much of anything on the creative side. Again, that's just musing. I don't know what the city powers could do to stimulate that.
Another thought (good thing I'm back to work next week, I'm pontificating too much here). Lakewood has high population density yes, but has anyone considered that the area most responsible for the density figures (the Gold Coast and eastern Lake, Edgewater, and Clifton) is nowhere near Lakewood's retail sections? That's my area, and I can tell you that the businesses I can walk to are all in Cleveland, over on Clifton. "Downtown' Lakewood or Madison is not really walkable for me.
-
Jerry Koenigsmark
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:42 am
First of all I love living in Lakewood. It has all the conveniences of a big city pretty much all within walking distance. What I really believe is lacking is the quaintness of some of the small cities that me and my wife have discovered. A few examples that come to mind are Westchester PA, Santa Barbara CA, and Niagara on the Lake. These cities are all very similar to Lakewood in many ways. They do not have any big retail chains. They have a good mixture of restaurants, unique specialty stores, and bars. What they do have that I don't feel Lakewood has is the feeling that a visitor driving through town will say "hey, this looks like a neat place to park the car and walk around."
What I believe sets these places apart from Lakewood is the quaintness that you get from having an inviting looking community. And I think this was part of Marks point about Crocker Park. It looks inviting. If Lakewoood looked inviting, people will come and may actually spend money once they see some of the unique things we have to offer.
We have two great main streets,(Detroit and Madison). Why not tree line these streets? How about benches, and plant containers? We have so many great artists in this city, what about some unique pieces of artwork/sculptures throughout the city?
Jerry
What I believe sets these places apart from Lakewood is the quaintness that you get from having an inviting looking community. And I think this was part of Marks point about Crocker Park. It looks inviting. If Lakewoood looked inviting, people will come and may actually spend money once they see some of the unique things we have to offer.
We have two great main streets,(Detroit and Madison). Why not tree line these streets? How about benches, and plant containers? We have so many great artists in this city, what about some unique pieces of artwork/sculptures throughout the city?
Jerry
-
dl meckes
- Posts: 1475
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:29 pm
- Location: Lakewood
Jerry Koenigsmark wrote:Why not tree line these streets? How about benches, and plant containers? We have so many great artists in this city, what about some unique pieces of artwork/sculptures throughout the city?
Jerry
That sounds great. I began a discussion with some people about putting some sculptural art in the Adopt-A-Spot gardens which could either live there or be auctioned off at the end of the growing seasn to raise some money for more plants. Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to follow up on the idea.
In a different discussion about Christmas decorations, I bemoaned the fact that soon the lights will come down and we will go back to the dark of winter nights. I wish that our shop keepers would think about leaving some of the lights in their windows. I find that look extremely inviting. We noticed the huge difference in storefront appearance between the shops that did something and those who did nothing.
I really applaud all those who participated in "Light Up Lakewood" and send my appreciation to those whose windows were especially festive. Again, I appreciate every shop that made any effort at all.
“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
-
Laurie Rhodes
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:57 am
- Location: Tega Cay, SC
dl meckes wrote:
As an independent retailer, I am happy to see that you enjoyed the "Light Up Lakewood" event. The purpose of the event was to let people know of all the shopping/dining opportunities available here in Lakewood. Lakewood Alive has a retail/dining guide on their website with info and hours of operation on many of the Lakewood establishments. Check it out if you haven't already done so, it will help you with ways to keep your dollars in Lakewood.
The committee will be gathering in January to plan for Light Up Lakewood 2006. We hope to make the weekend bigger and better. Let me know if you have any ideas to share.
Laurie Rhodes
Preserving Tomorrow's Memories
I really applaud all those who participated in "Light Up Lakewood" and send my appreciation to those whose windows were especially festive. Again, I appreciate every shop that made any effort at all.
As an independent retailer, I am happy to see that you enjoyed the "Light Up Lakewood" event. The purpose of the event was to let people know of all the shopping/dining opportunities available here in Lakewood. Lakewood Alive has a retail/dining guide on their website with info and hours of operation on many of the Lakewood establishments. Check it out if you haven't already done so, it will help you with ways to keep your dollars in Lakewood.
The committee will be gathering in January to plan for Light Up Lakewood 2006. We hope to make the weekend bigger and better. Let me know if you have any ideas to share.
Laurie Rhodes
Preserving Tomorrow's Memories
-
Jacqlyn Avis
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Lakewood West
- Contact:
I do a lot of shopping in our city. Geiger's, the Bin and many Detroit stores. Since the close of Bobson's I most often cross the river for hardware. My complaint about Lakewood's shopping areas also has to do with the "inviting" feel. While many of the storefronts look great, the apartments above them all are shabby, and not in a contemporary fashionable way. Downright crummy looking! Who owns these buildings?
I often glance up and think that if it were I that owned and rented them out, I'd make darn sure that the folks that live there, at least in the front of the buildings, had curtains or blinds appropriate for the city's main business centers instead of torn sheets or broken blinds. Can't there be a "window dress code" or something?
This can be said of some of the business that are on upper floors as well. As though if not on the main level, no one can see them!?
I often glance up and think that if it were I that owned and rented them out, I'd make darn sure that the folks that live there, at least in the front of the buildings, had curtains or blinds appropriate for the city's main business centers instead of torn sheets or broken blinds. Can't there be a "window dress code" or something?
This can be said of some of the business that are on upper floors as well. As though if not on the main level, no one can see them!?
-
Mark Crnolatas
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
...
While looking at the possibility of buying one of the buildings with a storefront and a bar, apartments upstairs, about 4 or 5 yrs ago, we saw some buildings for sale in serious need of tender loving care and a LOT of money . The storefronts were ok, but the apartments were all in need of quite a bit of repair, as well as plumbing, boilers and the like. Maybe things have changed in this amount of time, but yes, I agree, in some "strips" of Madison and Detroit, there seems to be a shabbyness that could be addressed.
Also, anyone know the status of the Titanic on Madison and Arthur? Why is it still not open for business? My wife and I had spoken to the the owner, who put a great deal of money into the property, and all was going semi-well, and then after some private parties, it has appeared to remain closed.
It's quite beautiful inside, and would have or maybe still might be a great asset to our city. (Had sampled the food at a party and it was great too).
Just curious.
Mark
Also, anyone know the status of the Titanic on Madison and Arthur? Why is it still not open for business? My wife and I had spoken to the the owner, who put a great deal of money into the property, and all was going semi-well, and then after some private parties, it has appeared to remain closed.
It's quite beautiful inside, and would have or maybe still might be a great asset to our city. (Had sampled the food at a party and it was great too).
Just curious.
Mark
-
Phil Florian
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:24 pm
On book stores: Why does the east side get Logonberry and Mac's Back and we get...nothing? Two unique, interesting and neighborhood-friendly book stores that cater to a more niche audience than say a Borders but a perfect fit for the neighborhoods they fit in. I don't think we should look for a big box book store ala Borders. That wouldn't fit the neighborhood or the people. I think a used bookstore with mix uses, as described above, would do nicely. This would work even better if it were surrounded by other shops of interest.
I just think it is ironic with the whole Crocker Park mentality (which I first saw built in Columbus...can't remember the name of it) we see suburban bedroom communties trying to replicate what we already have right now: cute little storefronts with walkways on neat streets. We have that. It is called Detroit and Madison Ave. If we had the parking (still my biggest bone of contention) I can't see why we wouldn't be as successful as a Crocker Park. They are desperate for old style city blocks to the point of making a Disneyland version of one. At 10x the expense! I don't think we could support a Crocker Park venue of shops as listed now but I think using what we have in terms of structure and building on it with a good mix of practical stores (as noted above) along with more unique specialty shops would work out for the city. We just have to find the gap between Target/K-Mart and Home Depot to find what is missing. We can't compete with those in the city. Thus the lack of small hardware stores and the old-school department stores. Maybe a great thrift store would work. I was in a store that was a kind of upscale version of Unique Thrift in Youngstown. It still catered to low-income families on the one hand (there were a ton of folks buying for apparently huge families) but on the other hand you could get great deals on name brand used clothing at ridiculously cheap prices. That would kill in Lakewood, I would think. A mix of the practical for a group of people that need cheaper clothing to the type of folks who enjoy finding unique outfits or deals.
Mix this with a great used or niche book store ala Mac's Backs, some coffee/tea, some food, some music , maybe an art-house theater for film and off you go. I like the idea mentioned above where you can bump into neighbors. We only have that at the parks and grocery store and library, really. Maybe the hospital but honestly, who wants to bump into people you know there?
Could the library have an annex that sells books or would that be detrimental to the library as a whole? I know they have their book sale one time per year but they do such a good job with it as well as all the surrounding programs (classes, speakers, interest groups, etc.) that area would be a good "hub" for some more shops. It has some of this already but it leans heavily on restaurants and not on retail. I haven't seen the plans for the expansion yet but just a thought.
I just think it is ironic with the whole Crocker Park mentality (which I first saw built in Columbus...can't remember the name of it) we see suburban bedroom communties trying to replicate what we already have right now: cute little storefronts with walkways on neat streets. We have that. It is called Detroit and Madison Ave. If we had the parking (still my biggest bone of contention) I can't see why we wouldn't be as successful as a Crocker Park. They are desperate for old style city blocks to the point of making a Disneyland version of one. At 10x the expense! I don't think we could support a Crocker Park venue of shops as listed now but I think using what we have in terms of structure and building on it with a good mix of practical stores (as noted above) along with more unique specialty shops would work out for the city. We just have to find the gap between Target/K-Mart and Home Depot to find what is missing. We can't compete with those in the city. Thus the lack of small hardware stores and the old-school department stores. Maybe a great thrift store would work. I was in a store that was a kind of upscale version of Unique Thrift in Youngstown. It still catered to low-income families on the one hand (there were a ton of folks buying for apparently huge families) but on the other hand you could get great deals on name brand used clothing at ridiculously cheap prices. That would kill in Lakewood, I would think. A mix of the practical for a group of people that need cheaper clothing to the type of folks who enjoy finding unique outfits or deals.
Mix this with a great used or niche book store ala Mac's Backs, some coffee/tea, some food, some music , maybe an art-house theater for film and off you go. I like the idea mentioned above where you can bump into neighbors. We only have that at the parks and grocery store and library, really. Maybe the hospital but honestly, who wants to bump into people you know there?
Could the library have an annex that sells books or would that be detrimental to the library as a whole? I know they have their book sale one time per year but they do such a good job with it as well as all the surrounding programs (classes, speakers, interest groups, etc.) that area would be a good "hub" for some more shops. It has some of this already but it leans heavily on restaurants and not on retail. I haven't seen the plans for the expansion yet but just a thought.
-
Charyn Varkonyi
Just for the sake of conversation...
Where would you place it? What type of ambiance? (I have never been to either place you mentioned...) Do you think that is would be viable.. or would it suffer the same demise as one I know of in Hermitage.. lots of browsers that came for a cup of coffee and social hour.. but went to Amazon to spend their money?
~C
Where would you place it? What type of ambiance? (I have never been to either place you mentioned...) Do you think that is would be viable.. or would it suffer the same demise as one I know of in Hermitage.. lots of browsers that came for a cup of coffee and social hour.. but went to Amazon to spend their money?
~C