What would it take for a Crocker Park type area for Lkwd ?

[Suzanne Metelko]

Jim, hard to row against a brick wall. Crocker Park isn't putting Lakewood out of business. We're doing that to ourselves. I appreciate the rose colored glasses. I was a Rangerette, I know how to do a cheer, but I'm thinking that we need some tough talk, hard work, and a dose of reality. If we're going to preserve the individuallity of Lakewood, we need to sieze control and make it happen. Kind of a community coup.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, hard to row against a brick wall. Crocker Park isn't putting Lakewood out of business. We're doing that to ourselves. I appreciate the rose colored glasses. I was a Rangerette, I know how to do a cheer, but I'm thinking that we need some tough talk, hard work, and a dose of reality. If we're going to preserve the individuallity of Lakewood, we need to sieze control and make it happen. Kind of a community coup.

Suzanne

The city starts to shake. I agree.

But let's be realistic as well, as we both know what each other is working on, who has energy levels for what.

Your folks, like to work from City Hall down, my folks like working from the streets up. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!

Right now I am all for doing as much as I can without the government, or meetings outside of the office or Bela. From what I can tell even if the Tax passes there is no room for what we really need to get done. It is up to the private sector as I see it. Many of the things the city desperately needs it cannot obtain legally or easily, from what I know. Water rights, currencies, community stores, securing green space nearby, etc are always easier for the private sector to secure and run it as a private "civic/community" owned enitity.

Lakewood is a great place, it has a great future. It is perfectly situated for the next 50 - 100 years. But this constant in the box thinking is going to lead to regionalism, and our grave as the city of homes, or trees, or even malls.

It really very easy as Suzanne, and Don Farris point out!!!!! Did I just use Farris and Metleko in the same sentence on the same side!!!!! If we do not support our own, then why would anyone else? If we apply Don's logic to Walmart to Lakewood it becomes painfully obvious.

So we can sit on our asses and do nothing, or we can help. Shop a Lakewood store you haven't recently. I am not saying take it to Ken Warren's extreme, though he has set an example for me. Ken rarely leaves Lakewood unlessed forced, and even then every foot outside of the city he talks more about how he misses it. I was at Crocker Park today. Saw people walking around, not a ton of buying or even returning, just driving parking and walking.

I went to Borders and Barnes and Noble, Lakewoo does need a bookstore/magazine store. We should collectively pay Gill to move Lakewood News back to Lakewood.

But everything else seemed so faux, and not needed, or easier found online. I went to buy a Dalai Lama calendar, that I could not find online.

I know this sounds funny, but this city, this town, this hollar, needs to get Amish, real fast.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mark

OK, I was a little tough on you. Why spout off if you don't have an answer. Right.

A peak -

Madison Avenue Merchants Association - (MaMa) A group of businesses on Madison that have joined together to market themselves, and work together to reduce their costs and increase their visibility in ways the Chamber and maybe the City could not help.

Detroit Avenue Development Association - (DaDa) A group of businesses on Detroit that want to work together to get things done store working with store and complimenting MaMa. These are store owners meeting over coffee(In Lakewood) to help themselves.

Ideas - Community owned stores, drafting in good retail, promoting the Lakewood Shopping Experience(more on this later), working with Landlords of store fronts now empty to get some home based businesses into them and out of the home(interns, office support, etc) Build the Brand

Goals - Fill in current holes, then create "zones" for shopping, finally community "vans" to move shoppers from district to district.

There, better than Crocker Park, cost to the city $0. Developers we sold our souls to 0. This is not rocket science.

John is right, let's rock.



.

[Joseph Milan]

Mark

I refuse to see the negativity. What really has me down is the concept that Lakewood is the ugly sister in this region.

Lakewood is a great place to live based on these reports due to the factors used in the surveys. Cheaper houses? That could be considered good or bad. Perhaps Mark's point should be seen as creating an alternative to Crocker Park here in town. It doesn't even have to be a mall. Is Lakewood a great place to live? Yes. Is Lakewood a great place to do business? If one wants a larger business base to take the heat off of property owners taxes, at current time, I'd have to say we're not as great as other places.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Here's a calendar, not sure if it's what you want, or if you already found one:
http://tinyurl.com/88ngc

Mark

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here's a calendar, not sure if it's what you want, or if you already found one:
http://tinyurl.com/88ngc

Mark

Mark

Thanks that is the one I found. The last two years I have bought a case of them for friends and business associates. Part of the Xmas Package. In the past they were always called "Words of Wisdom" from the Dalai Lama. This year I could not find them anywhere. They had changed the name but they were still not popping up. I had gone to borders three times looking for them and there were none. This time I found enough to keep the tradition alive. Thank you.

I love it as everday it has a little bit of thought that I use as the Mantra for the day.

Has really turned my thought process around.


Thanks



Jim

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mark

I refuse to see the negativity. What really has me down is the concept that Lakewood is the ugly sister in this region.

Lakewood is a great place to live based on these reports due to the factors used in the surveys. Cheaper houses? That could be considered good or bad. Perhaps Mark's point should be seen as creating an alternative to Crocker Park here in town. It doesn't even have to be a mall. Is Lakewood a great place to live? Yes. Is Lakewood a great place to do business? If one wants a larger business base to take the heat off of property owners taxes, at current time, I'd have to say we're not as great as other places.

Joe


I cannot believe you can gloss over something as important as that with "cheap houses." The London study is based on over 200 items that were looked at. The Free Times, The Scene and Cleveland Magazine studies all used different ways to figure. From votes to awarding points for various things that mattered in their lives. Have you read these?

To me this would mean conclusively Lakewood is the best city to LIVE in, and with both the Scene and Free Times has some nice things to visit.

Why fight it and argue with the study? If I walked up to you and said, "Mr Milan was a beautiful boy." Would you answer, "Well yes but he wets the beds, coughs to much, likes to steal, and has drooling problems" No! A simple thank you then on.

Lakewood is not Utopia, but where in this country is Utopia? No where the current administrationin Washington has stolen that dream for a handful of magic beans. As I have said for 6 years. We are going third world, but at least we are all going third world together.

Developments? I am not opposed to developments. After that number thingy a couple years back, and now with the paper I get a host of ideas through the office. The last one was for a "Crocker park" like area near downtown Lakewood. "Was I upset?" I told them as long as I hear the BUY word there is little I can even say. I was a little disappointed because they had missed a gem to develop by about 25 streets. But hey it is their dream not mine. I can cope.

But then I saw a great idea for development, that would change Lakewood forever, for the good. Possible double property values in the area surrounding the development, and would certainly become the most valuable "property" on the West Side. One girl's vision of Lakewood.

Taxes, as we will talk about this much more in the coming months. I never ever voted for taxes hoping that I could run some of my neighbors out and make more money on their property to offset the cost of my vote. I voted for taxes based on the needs of the city and/or the schools. I could always find better way to spend tax money myself on myself, that is easy. But I try to take a step back and think of the community, not just myself. Listen to the reasons, study the plan then vote. For me it is always easier to vote for school levies than taxes as property values are tied directly to schools. I voted for this bed, I now sleep in this bed.

My problem, and I am sure this will cause phone calls all day I am just tired of in the box thinking that seems to be all over this town. I am somewhat tired and leery of those that drive in everyday to "help" Lakewood then leave every night to their homes outside of Lakewood. This would apply to way more things than you could every imagine, not just the police and fire. Much of this in the box thinking comes from the "hired help."

Last night I was with a close friend driving around talking about everything from A-Z. Of course City Manager came up, always does with his kind Well we went over all of the virtues of City Manager which is easy to make sound "perfect." But then I said who would be the city manager, and he said "we find someone from outside of town!" I freaked.

Now this is not to say good ideas cannot come from outside the city. But it does lead back to my ongoing thread in this forum about "getting it."

A couple months ago I had the pleasure to wait fro over 30 minutes in the Hospital Lobby waiting to get 1 photo of the "Mainstreet Group." While waiting I struck up a conversation with the woman that was there representing "Main Street." It was amazing, she lived in Columbus, but understood Lakewood like I do. I was refreshing to hear how she thought Lakewood could be improved, while retaining it unique style. That Lakewood was the city developers were trying to build in a thousand "malls" around the country. That with gas prices soaring, and water prices soaring, Lakewood was one of the few communities in the area that had the foundation to compete for the next twenty years.

It was refreshing.

What I find refreshing about Lakewood is the engaged citizens, and those dancing on the edge like yourself that wants to get engaged if the right project comes along. Also like yourself I get calls everyday from people asking "What do you think about..." I tell them all the same thing I told you. If you bring it to the table, be prepared to Shepard it along. The Observer and myself(two completely different entities) will help where they can. Of course "our" project is very different as we need help from the city, and as of right now the city sees more problems that solutions with the idea. But they never said NO WAY, they just need to see more. As "our" plan cuts into their action I see their approval as a necessary part of the program. However I have never sensed that they were trying to kill it, or even slow it down. Just wanted us to have little things in place like insurance, and licensed trainers.

Which brings me back to the Suzanne working with Jim O'Bryan working with Jay Foran working with Don Farris working with Steve Davis working with Mark Timieski working with Mary Anne Crampton working with fill in the blank. Civic groups can work faster and cheaper than city hall, and residents can work faster than civic groups. Has something to do with meetings, and funding.

For Lakewood, my hollar, to survive and thrive the residents must get more engaged. We must all become proactive. Not in trying to get developers into town, but in supporting what we already have. It could be as simple as going down to Dog Park clean-up day even if you do not have a dog. Writing H20 a check for $5 or more dollars. Shoveling your neighbors walks, going to the Beck Center, or just talking positive talk about Lakewood with your friends not in Lakewood.

This is why I like the concept of Building The Lakewood Brand. Cost is what you make of it. Lakewood Arts Festival - FREE, Fourth of July parade - FREE, Choppers/Lakewood Motoring Society's Car Show - FREE, Art Galleries - FREE, Concerts in the Park - Free, Strolling Lakewood Ala Rita Ryland - FREE, Dog Park - FREE, Winerfest - FREE? Lakewood Days 2006-FREE, The parade down Detroit currently being planned - FREE, MaMa/DaDa-FREE, Lakewood Library - FREE and on and on.

I am in total agreement with Tom Powell-Bullock on the market. Lakewood needs to blow out and up the current market, and plan something bigger. What about moving it to Lakewood Park or better yet Winterhurst parking lot? Freeway access even better than Crocker Park, and it would serve 10 times more possible shoppers than Crocker Park.

John Crino, Jeff Endress and Ken Warren have nailed it. Can't get Borders or Barnes and Noble. That's fine, we don't need them, they are in driving distance, so let's start our own bookstore. We have the store fronts, we know what is on the table, and we know people that are always bitching about bookstores. Let's see what it is really worth to them. $5,000 for a piece of the action?

The answer has always been the same - Ask not what the city can do for you. But ask what you can do for the city. Or in Republican terms, Lakewood needs to activate it's 56,000 points of light. As I always joke with city officials, "Worry about safe and clean. Let the people plan the parties."

This is not rocket science, it called living in a city. The city of Lakewood.

OK I know what we have on Mark's plate - Project X and Winterfest. Joe what have you decided was your project for 2006? Bullock has taken on Farmers Aid Market. Anyone else? Bill Davis is there any truth to the rumor that you are trying to restart the GREAT Tire Roast Parties at Clifton Beach?

[Suzanne Metelko]

Jim, I do my best work below the radar and at the grass roots level but that reality I mentioned is that our government makes or breaks the deal. Just ask Chris from Madison Village not to mention a list of others. It is much easier to focus, plan, engage, and implement when the focus is on a common goal and not on my name, my job, me, me, me.

As for Farris and Metelko in the same sentence, I suspect Lynn and I don't find that as remarkable as you do. It's not like we've ever come to blows, we just disagree on a particular strategy.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, I do my best work below the radar and at the grass roots level but that reality I mentioned is that our government makes or breaks the deal. Just ask Chris from Madison Village not to mention a list of others. It is much easier to focus, plan, engage, and implement when the focus is on a common goal and not on my name, my job, me, me, me.

As for Farris and Metelko in the same sentence, I suspect Lynn and I don't find that as remarkable as you do. It's not like we've ever come to blows, we just disagree on a particular strategy.

Suzanne

As we both have discussed many times. As Lakewoodites we agree on more than we disagree. I do not really find it that odd. We all want what is best.

I talk to Chris, and it is not as political as one would think. Certainly Ms. Cain brought forces to bare on Chris, but he could have weathered the storm. Now some of the offices of City Hall made his life hell.

But now we have John and Jill Crino, and they are every bit as good as Chris.




.

[Tom Bullock]

I'd also support a bookstore project, and I'll attend a meeting to explore opening one. However, I don't know if I'm a qualified businessperson, so I might be more a listener than a convener.

In addition, I'm big on pushing the outdoor market idea for Lakewood and perhaps an outdoor market meeting is called for. Anyone interested in that? We've got that discussion going on another thread...

[Lynn Farris]

Tom,

I believe the first step is to determine why the bookstore we had failed. The people that were running it were wonderful people. Was it too high end? Was the rent they had to pay at Marc's plaza to high? I don't know, but that is where I would start. Does the fact that we have a fabulous library, negate the desire for a bookstore?

I'm all for the outdoor farmer's market. If I remember correctly the reason it is on Wednesday during work hours beside Taco Bell is that the grocery stores pitched a fit ad council caved. I'm not sure why other cities can have their market on Saturday morning in a convenient location and we can't. I'd like to know if this is something we can change, because I don't believe the outdoor market will be successful in the current location and time slot.

[Mark Crnolatas]

In just asking around, the neighbors , everyone, without exception, seems to think that Saturdays is the ONLY day to have it. Most don't care to do shopping of anything but what is totally needed after a hard day's work, except going to the drug store or picking up some milk,etc, but "enjoyable shopping" and browsing a market, you have about 2 dozen votes for Saturdays. *lots of various ethnic cooks around my area* ...
For what that's worth.

[Joan Roberts]

Lynn.

A very dear friend of mine was an independent bookseller in another city for many years. She is now in another line of work. There is probably no better way to lose an investment today than in a stand-alone bookstore.
It's not just Borders and B&N, although those stores buy their books from publishers at obscene discounts, and then have enough space to market "remainders" (unreturnable unsold items), so not only is their volume greater, their risk is substantially lower.
The internet is what effectively killed the independent bookstore. There are literally millions of books currently in print. The biggest big-box bookstore can carry only a fraction. In the old days, you would go to a friendly neighborhood bookstore (my friend) and if she didn't have it, she would special order it, at full retail, of course.
Now you can do it yourself, at home, from not one, but a dozen sources.
Why pay a bookshop owner, unless you consider the markup a charitable contribution? And believe me, the customers will let you know that Borders is cheaper and has more stuff, and that EVERYTHING is available at amazon.com.
Independent bookstores have tried buying "coops" (like Ace Hardware) with little or no luck. Used bookshops and some specialty (travel, glbt, etc.) stores can exist, but a general interest independent bookstore has gone the way of the corner drugstore.
I don't think the library affects it in any way. Independent stores have died in towns with good libraries, bad ones, and no libraries at all.
Oh, gosh. I ran long again. I don't mean to be negative, I'd love a bookstore here, too. But I'm not holding my breath, and I sure wouldn't put any off my kids' college money into one.

[Lynn Farris]

I'm intrigued by the comparison to Crocker Park. Do you think it can support two mega bookstores - Borders and Barnes and Nobles or will they cannibalize each other?

I kind of like the bookstore next to Tommy's on Coventry. It is used and I can see something like that working next to the Phoenix or something like that. A bookstore like that doesn't compete with the mega stores.

But Joan I think you have a point. I bought all my books this year on Amazon. Some were used and the person that had them sent them to me. (BTW, it seemed like a Library was working with Amazon in that some of the used books appeared to come from them.)

[Joseph Milan]

I cannot believe you can gloss over something as important as that with "cheap houses." The London study is based on over 200 items that were looked at. The Free Times, The Scene and Cleveland Magazine studies all used different ways to figure. From votes to awarding points for various things that mattered in their lives.

Jim,
The only point I was trying to make was that Lakewood could do a better job at its residential and commercial mix. I'm sorry if you think took it any other way.

Joe