Ken
That was a fascinating drive around Lakewood's neighborhoods yesterday. I think it was really insightful finding properties that might be the proper use of eminent domain, and a slew of homes on both sides of Clifton that appeared as people could no longer afford to live in them.
However the farmer from Barberton looking at the fence he was going to buy next week was the most interesting. It was a painful look into what could be every city's future. They were here to use his new money to buy up what the city could no longer afford. "I see this all the time, at least someone will come in and keep these things intact. Maybe they will leave Lakewood but at least they will not be lost forever." Made it almost sound like he was doing the world a favor.
I was shocked to find out that the fence could be worth twice the price of the house. That as Morse had grabbed art, statues and stained glass from others, others now come to grab it back.
Again only because he made sure we understood. "As a Republican I am against government intervention on a sale like this. The residents who are opposed should just buy up everything including the house." Then went on to point out that whoever bought the house would at some point realize that the sum of the parts are worth more than the parts on a whole, and that only a historical society could take on a money pit like this.
As he and his wife left, they were headed down to the three house down the street that are being leveled for condos.
As we both pondered the "inevitable" comment, we drove off through Lakewood looking at the city through different eyes. Will the city allow the marrying of property along the Lake. Will emergency knee jerk legislation stop people from building multi-million dollar units along the lake. Will this actually speed up the very thing most of us want to stop or slow?
I have no idea how Lakewood has a knack for finding lightening rod topics every couple months, but we do. I think it would be more productive to get everyone pulling together instead of concentrating on the hot topics that drive us apart. If we could have gotten the city on the whole to support the Lakewood Historical Society, this would have been a good news story. "Lakewood Historical Society buys Morse House, moves offices."
Jim
auction of lakewood landmark
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Jim O'Bryan
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Kenneth Warren
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Jim:
For us to experience the Farmer's Antiques Road Show on Lake Avenue was indeed a lightening rod experience. However, talk is cheap. The farmer's appraisal of the value of the fence is, at this point, the fascinating speculation of a scavenging speculator within an eye-opening conversation with Lakewood Observer reporters.
I was struck by the farmer's use of the word "fascination' to describe his interest in going "toe-to-toe" with other bidders at an auction. He evidently takes satisfaction in the dramatic experience where dollars are put on the line to dismantle a local historical asset and move antique things to places afar.
Markets accumulate and distribute assets. There are strong hands; there are weak hands.
To the farmer at the gate Lakewood hands appeared weak. On the brink of capitulation, weak hands are ready to give up antiquities. The farmer is ready to profit and compete against other strong hands from afar.
To my ear the farmer at the gate expressed disdain for Historical Societies, which are undercapitalized, while trying nonetheless to strenghten weak hands and preserve the local store of old things, which must follow the money.
The farmer at the gate articulated a level of "fascination' for old things moving into strong hands.
In conversations like this one, the market can seem a mysterious deity upon whose altar is offered blood, sweat and tears that breed fascination in men like the farmer at the gate.
Yesterday we were instructed in a simple lesson about the rules of economic power and the impact of retrograde economics on the local antiquities market.
Kenneth Warren
For us to experience the Farmer's Antiques Road Show on Lake Avenue was indeed a lightening rod experience. However, talk is cheap. The farmer's appraisal of the value of the fence is, at this point, the fascinating speculation of a scavenging speculator within an eye-opening conversation with Lakewood Observer reporters.
I was struck by the farmer's use of the word "fascination' to describe his interest in going "toe-to-toe" with other bidders at an auction. He evidently takes satisfaction in the dramatic experience where dollars are put on the line to dismantle a local historical asset and move antique things to places afar.
Markets accumulate and distribute assets. There are strong hands; there are weak hands.
To the farmer at the gate Lakewood hands appeared weak. On the brink of capitulation, weak hands are ready to give up antiquities. The farmer is ready to profit and compete against other strong hands from afar.
To my ear the farmer at the gate expressed disdain for Historical Societies, which are undercapitalized, while trying nonetheless to strenghten weak hands and preserve the local store of old things, which must follow the money.
The farmer at the gate articulated a level of "fascination' for old things moving into strong hands.
In conversations like this one, the market can seem a mysterious deity upon whose altar is offered blood, sweat and tears that breed fascination in men like the farmer at the gate.
Yesterday we were instructed in a simple lesson about the rules of economic power and the impact of retrograde economics on the local antiquities market.
Kenneth Warren
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Stephen Calhoun
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I think it would be more productive to get everyone pulling together instead of concentrating on the hot topics that drive us apart.
Jim. 'Pulling together' means exactly what? In what framework does pulling and/or pushing happen?
The topics are hot and they're hot because, like focusing the sun through a lens, persons' attention is focused by the lens of what is a priority for them.
***
My sense is that communities have to go all the way through those topics; to do so have to become very self-critical; have to see the grain of integrations of different levels and valences; have to understand the 'pulling apart' as the precedent to 'pulling together'.
imo
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Jim O'Bryan
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Stephen Calhoun wrote: Jim. 'Pulling together' means exactly what? In what framework does pulling and/or pushing happen?
Steve
What I was getting at was this, many of the people tha appear to opposite sides of these "hot" topics, agree on many other things that need to be done in this city.
In my small mind I often wonder aloud that why not work on things we agree on, build the community which would make it easier to discuss these "hot" topics down the orad.
I guess it is the old hippy in me.
Jim
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Carly McDonnell
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It was nice of Mr. O’Bryan to post the auction photos. I assume that this was the first time that anyone has actually seen these items that they are so suddenly and deeply concerned about preserving? However, the bottom line still remains that it is the Lombardo’s business what they do with their possessions and not the public’s. It is completely inappropriate to turn this unfortunate event into some “community†debatable issue when the outcome will essentially have no effect on the meddling neighbors and members of the community who are involving themselves.
**Additional “jeers†to both Susan and Linda Porter and the like who while acknowledging a family’s hardships, unhesitatingly considered it appropriate to and maliciously and tactlessly air out their personal information to the public. Maybe it is because they are incapable of even conceiving the stress of real financial difficulties. Who has the time and/or motivation to delve so deep into the personal lives of strangers? Sounds like Linda Porter is very close to the Lombardo family; aside from knowing their personal business, she knows what they're thinking and feeling too.
**Additional “jeers†to both Susan and Linda Porter and the like who while acknowledging a family’s hardships, unhesitatingly considered it appropriate to and maliciously and tactlessly air out their personal information to the public. Maybe it is because they are incapable of even conceiving the stress of real financial difficulties. Who has the time and/or motivation to delve so deep into the personal lives of strangers? Sounds like Linda Porter is very close to the Lombardo family; aside from knowing their personal business, she knows what they're thinking and feeling too.
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Grace O'Malley
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Linda Porter wrote:
These statements, made to sound as if they come from an intimate source, are no more believable than many of the other wild accusations you have made here in this public forum.
The purpose of this forum is open and honest discussion about important issues. If you wish to be taken seriously, you should disclose who this "phantom buyer" is. There have been many claims that buyers have offered to purchase the home, yet to date, there has been NOT ONE confirmation of ANY legitimate offer to purchase the house.
Surely you would have no qualms about identifying the alleged buyer, as it would be the only part of your statement that was actually based on alleged fact rather than opinion.
Do you care to support your statement with fact or shall it remain in the realm of unsubstantiated rumor?
The "gentleman" Lombardo has been approached by an interested party wishing to purchase the house as it is.
Perhaps the doctor who is interested in buying this house would be able to do so by dealing directly with the mortgage company that now owns it. There is a doctor from Cleveland's East Side who offered to buy the house and was turned down by Otto Lombardo.
These statements, made to sound as if they come from an intimate source, are no more believable than many of the other wild accusations you have made here in this public forum.
The purpose of this forum is open and honest discussion about important issues. If you wish to be taken seriously, you should disclose who this "phantom buyer" is. There have been many claims that buyers have offered to purchase the home, yet to date, there has been NOT ONE confirmation of ANY legitimate offer to purchase the house.
Surely you would have no qualms about identifying the alleged buyer, as it would be the only part of your statement that was actually based on alleged fact rather than opinion.
Do you care to support your statement with fact or shall it remain in the realm of unsubstantiated rumor?
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Stephen Calhoun
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Jim.
I appreciate the old hippy in you.
In a better world the cool topics and the communal/community commitments would provide the leverage points for working and pulling together.
If I stop here and ask what those cool topics are, I'd like to know about 'em.
***
Economic insecurity is forcing stuff up from the swampy muck to the surface. Normally we don't pay attention to the glob until it is a turd floating at the top.
Yet, there it, they, are.
This presents a fairly heavy challenge for the Lakewood Observer. There's no feel good element in pointing out the slowly growing devastation, (which could be marked to the Reagan era or to the late fifties, let alone to the ongoing NEO recession, entering its sixth year) in the post-manufacturing economy here.
***
The challenge is to teach people how to pull together rather than circle the wagons. The natural tendency is, when economic viability is jeopardized, is not to be together.
As you know I take this 'out' to the thought form integrating self-knowledge and civic mutual understanding. It's a very fragile thought form as any proposal posed to counter the instinctual, by definition, is.
I appreciate the old hippy in you.
In a better world the cool topics and the communal/community commitments would provide the leverage points for working and pulling together.
If I stop here and ask what those cool topics are, I'd like to know about 'em.
***
Economic insecurity is forcing stuff up from the swampy muck to the surface. Normally we don't pay attention to the glob until it is a turd floating at the top.
Yet, there it, they, are.
This presents a fairly heavy challenge for the Lakewood Observer. There's no feel good element in pointing out the slowly growing devastation, (which could be marked to the Reagan era or to the late fifties, let alone to the ongoing NEO recession, entering its sixth year) in the post-manufacturing economy here.
***
The challenge is to teach people how to pull together rather than circle the wagons. The natural tendency is, when economic viability is jeopardized, is not to be together.
As you know I take this 'out' to the thought form integrating self-knowledge and civic mutual understanding. It's a very fragile thought form as any proposal posed to counter the instinctual, by definition, is.
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Anthony J. LaCerva
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For a fuller discussion of why the proposed auction of the architectural details of the mansion at 13405 Lake Avenue is a legitimate topic of community discussion, see my Letter to the Editor of the Lakewood Observer posted on July 15, 2005. But, in response to some of the very recent postings on this thread, suffice it to say that the current resident of the mansion forfeited any expectation of privacy when he invoked the aid of the courts in a futile attempt to forestall creditors and when he posted two giant signs announcing his intentions on a busy corner visible to rush-hour traffic. Both Susan Porter and Linda Porter make some very good points.
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Grace O'Malley
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Yet neither of the two Porters (are they sisters, perhaps?) made any attempt to prove the veracity of their postings.
I've heard the rumor about "a buyer" so many times and in so many variations yet there remains to be seen any proof that anyone has made a legitimate offer on the house.
How about it, Ms. Porter? Why are you so reluctant to reveal the purported "East Side doctor" buyer? You aren't shy about posting other personal information.
Could it be that there really isn't any buyer?
I've heard the rumor about "a buyer" so many times and in so many variations yet there remains to be seen any proof that anyone has made a legitimate offer on the house.
How about it, Ms. Porter? Why are you so reluctant to reveal the purported "East Side doctor" buyer? You aren't shy about posting other personal information.
Could it be that there really isn't any buyer?
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Cyndie Morgan
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Re: Lake and Nicholson Home
I think this has been said but it is worth repeating:
1. Most folks interested in retaining the property are not in it for the money or increased property values…. Many are interested because we cherish our history, we cherish homes that can never be created again. Maybe I am naïve – but I do believe this to be true.
2. I understand that homes have been destroyed in the past but that doesn’t make it right now. I am not even sure it was right then. Many cities, like Richmond, Va and little Newport, RI have kept their historic mansions and perhaps updated some of them in some fashion – sometimes turning them into condos but keeping their architectural integrity – and those cities are doing much better financially than Lakewood.
3. With regard to airing the Lombardo’s financial situation in a public setting – sorry that was determined a long time ago to be public record. Any person can look on-line and obtain financial information – liens, bankruptcies, civil and criminal law suits….. And although we don’t know the Lombardo’s total history, anyone with a computer can tell you a lot of folks have lost money to the Lombardo’s poor financial decisions – as determined by the Courts.
4. For those of you who really believe that the Lombardo Family plans to continue to live in the current home. We all know that is not financially possible. If you can’t afford a $300,000 mortgage, you cannot afford that home. Period. For those of you who think it is none of the community’s business if someone can or can’t afford the property they live in - think again. It effects the community when someone doesn’t pay their property taxes, it effects the community when someone doesn’t care for their property and it begins to fall apart and deteriorate….and the list can go on.
So let’s just be honest – we have someone who simply wants the most financial gain for what is left of his property. (not really his – the bank owns the property) Which is understandable.
As I have said before, the only way I see a win-win solution here is for a “buyer†to come forward. If a “buyer†is willing to pay the Lombardos the right price for the property, then we have a solution. The Lombardos get the money they need and the community keeps a historic property intact - WIN WIN.
I tend to agree that either a buyer has not come forward or they have come forward with a lowball price. If a “buyer†comes forward, offers the Lombardos the right price and the Lombardos do not accept it then I think the previous Post is correct –
So the bottom line is – if you truly want to save this property - bring on the buyer ASAP. Make them known.
1. Most folks interested in retaining the property are not in it for the money or increased property values…. Many are interested because we cherish our history, we cherish homes that can never be created again. Maybe I am naïve – but I do believe this to be true.
2. I understand that homes have been destroyed in the past but that doesn’t make it right now. I am not even sure it was right then. Many cities, like Richmond, Va and little Newport, RI have kept their historic mansions and perhaps updated some of them in some fashion – sometimes turning them into condos but keeping their architectural integrity – and those cities are doing much better financially than Lakewood.
3. With regard to airing the Lombardo’s financial situation in a public setting – sorry that was determined a long time ago to be public record. Any person can look on-line and obtain financial information – liens, bankruptcies, civil and criminal law suits….. And although we don’t know the Lombardo’s total history, anyone with a computer can tell you a lot of folks have lost money to the Lombardo’s poor financial decisions – as determined by the Courts.
4. For those of you who really believe that the Lombardo Family plans to continue to live in the current home. We all know that is not financially possible. If you can’t afford a $300,000 mortgage, you cannot afford that home. Period. For those of you who think it is none of the community’s business if someone can or can’t afford the property they live in - think again. It effects the community when someone doesn’t pay their property taxes, it effects the community when someone doesn’t care for their property and it begins to fall apart and deteriorate….and the list can go on.
So let’s just be honest – we have someone who simply wants the most financial gain for what is left of his property. (not really his – the bank owns the property) Which is understandable.
As I have said before, the only way I see a win-win solution here is for a “buyer†to come forward. If a “buyer†is willing to pay the Lombardos the right price for the property, then we have a solution. The Lombardos get the money they need and the community keeps a historic property intact - WIN WIN.
I tend to agree that either a buyer has not come forward or they have come forward with a lowball price. If a “buyer†comes forward, offers the Lombardos the right price and the Lombardos do not accept it then I think the previous Post is correct –
Linda Porter wrote:In essence, he is saying that if he can't have this house, nobody else will have happy times in it either. It will be destroyed.
Linda J. Porter
So the bottom line is – if you truly want to save this property - bring on the buyer ASAP. Make them known.
cyndieinpc
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Grace O'Malley
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Cyndie Morgan wrote:
Both supporters and opponents of Lombardo agree!
If a buyer exists, where is he/she?
Ms Porter, you have made the claim, in a public arena, that a buyer wants that property. Is it yet another baseless claim?
I suspect that Jim may be right. That home is a money pit and no one individual could devote the required resources to it.
I don't believe that there IS a buyer out there.
How about it, Ms Porter, can you prove me wrong and save your credibility?
So the bottom line is – if you truly want to save this property - bring on the buyer ASAP. Make them known.
Both supporters and opponents of Lombardo agree!
If a buyer exists, where is he/she?
Ms Porter, you have made the claim, in a public arena, that a buyer wants that property. Is it yet another baseless claim?
I suspect that Jim may be right. That home is a money pit and no one individual could devote the required resources to it.
I don't believe that there IS a buyer out there.
How about it, Ms Porter, can you prove me wrong and save your credibility?
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Jim O'Bryan
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AUCTION CONTINUES - HOUSE ITEMS PULLED
Just in.
Judge McGinty through a telphone hearing has stopped/postponed the auction of statues, stained glass, fountains and fence at the Morse Faeber House.
The auction of Mr. Lombardo's personal belonging may go ahead, but the rest will have to wait until a hearing scheduled for next week.
That's all we know at this point.
Jim O'Bryan
Just in.
Judge McGinty through a telphone hearing has stopped/postponed the auction of statues, stained glass, fountains and fence at the Morse Faeber House.
The auction of Mr. Lombardo's personal belonging may go ahead, but the rest will have to wait until a hearing scheduled for next week.
That's all we know at this point.
Jim O'Bryan
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OTTO LOMBARDO
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HELLO TO OUR LAKEWOOD FRIENDS
As many of you know the efforts of our neighbor's and Councilman Ed Fitzgerald were successful for them, by obtaining a Temporary Restraining Court Order to prevent us from selling 18 architectural items tomorrow, July 21, 2005 at 8 am. They mounted a very dirty, and as I am now finding out, possibly illegal campaign against us by interfering with our mortgage holder to induce them to issue the Court Restraining Order.
THE AUCTION IS STILL ON FOR ALL OF THE OTHER ITEMS LISTED
If you have any personal comments you would like to say to these people, I have provided from the directory their phone numbers for your convenience:
ED FITZGERALD: 216 521 0916 or 216 338 9479
Unfortunately for the Lombardo's, we now have no choice but to sell OUR HOME before the Sheriff sells it for us.
I have decided to SELL THE "LOMBARDO MANSION" tomorrow, JULY 21, 2005 VIA SILENT AUCTION with a reserve during the hours 8am -2pm. I will have bid sheets available at the auction being held at our home at 13405 Lake Avenue Lakewood, Ohio 44107. A $50,000 official bank check will be required tomorrow from the winning bidder. The winning bid can NOT be subject to financing. The house auction will require a CASH BUYER. I would ask, if you know of any interested buyers, to please forward this message to them. My email: olcfs@core.com
On behalf of my family, I want to thank all of you for the out pouring of support and affection to us, I was most touched by a stranger who came up to me while I was working in the yard and politely disagreed with 'the owners' for trying to sell the fence. He didn't know I was the owner. He then produced a home made muffin and asked if I could give it to the owners and quietly left.
Goodbye
Otto Lombardo
This was edited by Jim O'Bryan
As many of you know the efforts of our neighbor's and Councilman Ed Fitzgerald were successful for them, by obtaining a Temporary Restraining Court Order to prevent us from selling 18 architectural items tomorrow, July 21, 2005 at 8 am. They mounted a very dirty, and as I am now finding out, possibly illegal campaign against us by interfering with our mortgage holder to induce them to issue the Court Restraining Order.
THE AUCTION IS STILL ON FOR ALL OF THE OTHER ITEMS LISTED
If you have any personal comments you would like to say to these people, I have provided from the directory their phone numbers for your convenience:
ED FITZGERALD: 216 521 0916 or 216 338 9479
Unfortunately for the Lombardo's, we now have no choice but to sell OUR HOME before the Sheriff sells it for us.
I have decided to SELL THE "LOMBARDO MANSION" tomorrow, JULY 21, 2005 VIA SILENT AUCTION with a reserve during the hours 8am -2pm. I will have bid sheets available at the auction being held at our home at 13405 Lake Avenue Lakewood, Ohio 44107. A $50,000 official bank check will be required tomorrow from the winning bidder. The winning bid can NOT be subject to financing. The house auction will require a CASH BUYER. I would ask, if you know of any interested buyers, to please forward this message to them. My email: olcfs@core.com
On behalf of my family, I want to thank all of you for the out pouring of support and affection to us, I was most touched by a stranger who came up to me while I was working in the yard and politely disagreed with 'the owners' for trying to sell the fence. He didn't know I was the owner. He then produced a home made muffin and asked if I could give it to the owners and quietly left.
Goodbye
Otto Lombardo
This was edited by Jim O'Bryan
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Grace O'Malley
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Here is the story in the Plain Dealer today:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/11218521007151.xml&coll=2
I think the statement that the "home has been preserved" is wishful thinking.
The possible scenarios are that the home will likely be sold at a sheriff's sale, at which point you will have a new owner who may be a bank, investor, or a developer, none of which has any personal interest in the house. There is absolutely no guarantee that a new owner would be any less likely to want to benefit from selling the parts and pieces of the home.
The current owner may indeed be able to save the home from foreclosure if the sale of personal items is successful. In that case, all that anyone has succeeded in doing is antagonizing the situation by the legal interference.
Neighbors may have temporarily halted this sale, but they have not gained control of the property.
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/11218521007151.xml&coll=2
I think the statement that the "home has been preserved" is wishful thinking.
The possible scenarios are that the home will likely be sold at a sheriff's sale, at which point you will have a new owner who may be a bank, investor, or a developer, none of which has any personal interest in the house. There is absolutely no guarantee that a new owner would be any less likely to want to benefit from selling the parts and pieces of the home.
The current owner may indeed be able to save the home from foreclosure if the sale of personal items is successful. In that case, all that anyone has succeeded in doing is antagonizing the situation by the legal interference.
Neighbors may have temporarily halted this sale, but they have not gained control of the property.
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Stephen Calhoun
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The neighbors, if they cannot buy the property, cannot own it.
By definition, an owner has a personal stake. It just might not be the right version of personal, stake, (depending...) or might not be in congruence with the majoritarian wishes of the neighbors.
Of course those neighbors may present a bundle of divergent interests too.
***
This is an object lesson, as Ken has noted, in critical tension in the specific circumstance between PROPERTY and NEIGHBOR 'rights' Oh, and in the context of LAW.
'sentiment' counts for very little here where it doesn't plug into law. As the saying goes: 'we live in a great country'. Bankers, investors, developers are people too.
Individuals who work and own, in fact, bank assets, invest in future returns, and develop present and future value.
By definition, an owner has a personal stake. It just might not be the right version of personal, stake, (depending...) or might not be in congruence with the majoritarian wishes of the neighbors.
Of course those neighbors may present a bundle of divergent interests too.
***
This is an object lesson, as Ken has noted, in critical tension in the specific circumstance between PROPERTY and NEIGHBOR 'rights' Oh, and in the context of LAW.
'sentiment' counts for very little here where it doesn't plug into law. As the saying goes: 'we live in a great country'. Bankers, investors, developers are people too.
Individuals who work and own, in fact, bank assets, invest in future returns, and develop present and future value.