The Observation Deck

From the Plain Dealer:
http://www.cleveland.com/medical/index. ... ood_1.html

If Lakewood council approves the plan, trauma care and inpatient pediatric beds will be moved to Fairview starting in mid-June, while health care services targeted to other patients will expand at Lakewood.

Lakewood will continue to have full-service, 24-hour emergency care for all ages, illnesses and injuries. But trauma cases -- patients with serious injuries that require immediate and highly specialized care -- would go to Fairview or MetroHealth Medical Center, depending on the best place to treat the patient.

They say less than 1% of Lakewood's patients were "trauma" patients last year so it shouldn't have too much of an effect. But of course, who really knows.

Bryan Schwegler wrote:
They say less than 1% of Lakewood's patients were "trauma" patients last year so it shouldn't have too much of an effect. But of course, who really knows.

Unless you are one of the 1% (340 people) who needs that service and is bounced from one ER to another while your life hangs in the balance. Unless you need a rescue squad and they are an additional 4 miles away at Fairview or even further, at Metro.

This is all about profits for the Cleveland Clinic, Lakewood Hospital already has been merged with Fairview now it is just a matter of slowly extracting services from the former Lakewood Hospital until there is nothing to close. From a P.R. stand point this is genius, slowly dismantling it over several years will prevent the political fire storm that would result from closing it today. A few million dollars in enhanced wheelchair ramps and full page ads in the Observer will keep the politicians and Mr. O'Bryan quite.

This is a link to the CCF press-release regarding their New Avon Hospital. http://my.clevelandclinic.org/media_rel ... enter.aspx
Note the 400 jobs, an ER and rehabilitation center. Where do you think most of those jobs will be coming from? The region isn't growing (same number of customers), but that is where the well insured live. Gee, I thought the former Lakewood Hospital (now Fairview north) was going to be the rehabilitation hospital.

If you what to see what the future of Lakewood Hospital looks like go about 2 miles east on Detroit where St. Johns Hospital use to be. Now it is just a nursing home, daycare and doctors offices. At least the CCF didn't choose to name their New Hospital in Avon, Lakewood Hospital Westshore.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:

Bryan Schwegler wrote:
This is all about profits for the Cleveland Clinic, Lakewood Hospital already has been merged with Fairview now it is just a matter of slowly extracting services from the former Lakewood Hospital until there is nothing to close. From a P.R. stand point this is genius, slowly dismantling it over several years will prevent the political fire storm that would result from closing it today.

Your analysis is spot on.

The expanded Fairview Hospital and new Avon Lake Hospital will continue to syphon off business from Lakewood Hospital. The Clinic envisions Lakewood Hospital as:

1. A place to dump non-paying customers
2. A combination nursing home/out patient facility that will serve as a feeder to
Fairview Hospital and the new Avon Lake Hospital.

I understand why the Clinic wants that program. I don't understand why Lakewood Hospital wants it.

I suppose if Lakewood Hospial continues to have 1,700 employees the financial impact will be negligible. However, I suspect that hundreds of employees will soon be working somewhere else. The Clinic has enough political sense to cut the jobs slowly and as part of a "repositioning" of Lakewood Hospial instead of an actual decommissioning.

Hospital and City of Lakewood reports used to provide detailed employment and financial information. The quality of the information has degraded over the last few years. It is now mostly worthless. No numbers, just puffing. Just an accident?

Bill Call wrote:Your analysis is spot on.

The expanded Fairview Hospital and new Avon Lake Hospital will continue to syphon off business from Lakewood Hospital. The Clinic envisions Lakewood Hospital as:

1. A place to dump non-paying customers
2. A combination nursing home/out patient facility that will serve as a feeder to
Fairview Hospital and the new Avon Lake Hospital.

Bill(s)

Actually that is not spot on.

From the records I have seen, that would be 25 cases not 340.

One of the reasons for the move is the need for additional space for the Acute
Rehabilitation Unit which is for intensive in-patient rehabilitation, Cleveland Clinic's
Neurological Institute at Lakewood Hospital, in addition to our orthopedic unit.

Emergency room services will not be diminished by this. The primary stroke center
continues as will pediatrics unless long term stay is needed.




.

Mr. O'Bryan

1% of 34,000 ER visits annually (CCF numbers) is 340, NOT 34.

Bill

Bill Call wrote:

Bill Trentel wrote:

Bryan Schwegler wrote:
This is all about profits for the Cleveland Clinic, Lakewood Hospital already has been merged with Fairview now it is just a matter of slowly extracting services from the former Lakewood Hospital until there is nothing to close. From a P.R. stand point this is genius, slowly dismantling it over several years will prevent the political fire storm that would result from closing it today.

Your analysis is spot on.

The expanded Fairview Hospital and new Avon Lake Hospital will continue to syphon off business from Lakewood Hospital. The Clinic envisions Lakewood Hospital as:

1. A place to dump non-paying customers
2. A combination nursing home/out patient facility that will serve as a feeder to
Fairview Hospital and the new Avon Lake Hospital.

I understand why the Clinic wants that program. I don't understand why Lakewood Hospital wants it.

I suppose if Lakewood Hospial continues to have 1,700 employees the financial impact will be negligible. However, I suspect that hundreds of employees will soon be working somewhere else. The Clinic has enough political sense to cut the jobs slowly and as part of a "repositioning" of Lakewood Hospial instead of an actual decommissioning.

Hospital and City of Lakewood reports used to provide detailed employment and financial information. The quality of the information has degraded over the last few years. It is now mostly worthless. No numbers, just puffing. Just an accident?

Bill,
If you exchange the higher paying medical professional jobs for lower paying nurses aids I amagine the income tax hit to the city will be quite large. Also figure in the additional safety forces overtime and equipment costs the city will have to transport to Fairview or Metro.


Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:Mr. O'Bryan

1% of 34,000 ER visits annually (CCF numbers) is 340, NOT 34.

Bill

The article states 'less than 1%'. How much less is open for speculation, unless you've seen hospital records.

Bill Trentel wrote:
Bill,
If you exchange the higher paying medical professional jobs for lower paying nurses aids I amagine the income tax hit to the city will be quite large. Also figure in the additional safety forces overtime and equipment costs the city will have to transport to Fairview or Metro.


Bill

Bill(s)

Let me get this straight. neurosurgery doctors and nurses get paid how much less, than
general nurses?

If serious trauma happen, which last year was 25 times. You would be stabilized if needed,
and then transported to Fairview. Please note not necessarily with city equipment.

Now while we should be happy that there was only 25 serious trauma cases last year.
Which would seem to underline what our mayor has said. Less accidents, less shootings,
less stabbings, less rape etc. It seems that some are looking to make Lakewood sound
less safe than the mayor currently claims. I think we need to give the mayor his kudos for
the reduction in serious trauma.

34,801 ER cases out of those 25 were trauma
Newspaper article was wrong! Go figure. Should have read less than 1%, not 1%.

Mr. Trentel
I thought you at least were a stickler for facts.

While I realize that Bill Call is more like myself, preferring to shoot from the hip.

Read it here for yourself.

Notice To The City Of Lakewood.
http://www.lakewoodhospital.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=K5MdYuHVsQ4%3d&tabid=3337

Full Disclosure
The Cleveland Clinic is the Observer's largest advertiser, supporting all of our papers. I
am also on the Citizen's Advisory Board, though I do not attend meetings. Lakewood
hospital did save my life. They have never told us what to run or what not to run. They
have been 100% helpful in all discussions looking into their financing, if they should pay
taxes, and what their plans are with Lakewood and other hospitals. They have completely
opened their books to the Observer when we asked.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Bill Trentel wrote:
Bill,
If you exchange the higher paying medical professional jobs for lower paying nurses aids I amagine the income tax hit to the city will be quite large. Also figure in the additional safety forces overtime and equipment costs the city will have to transport to Fairview or Metro.


Bill

Bill(s)

Let me get this straight. neurosurgery doctors and nurses get paid how much less, than
general nurses? If serious trauma happen, which last year was 25 times. You would be
stabilized if needed, and then transported to Fairview. Please note not with city equipment.

Now while we should be happy that there was only 25 serious trauma cases last year.
Which would seem to underline what our mayor has said. Less accidents, less shootings,
less stabbings, less rape etc. It seems that some are looking to make Lakewood sound
less safe than the mayor currently claims. I think we need to give the mayor his kudos for
the reduction in serious trauma.

34,801 ER cases out of those 25 were trauma
Newspaper article was wrong! Go figure. Should have read less than 1%, not 1%.

Mr. Trentel
I thought you at least were a stickler for facts.

While I realize that Bill Call is more like myself, preferring to shoot from the hip.

Read it here for yourself.

Notice To The City Of Lakewood.
http://www.lakewoodhospital.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=K5MdYuHVsQ4%3d&tabid=3337

Disclosure
In a moment of full disclosure: The Cleveland Clinic is the Observer's largest advertiser,
supporting all of our papers. I am also on the Citizen's Advisory Board, though I do not
attend meetings. Lakewood hospital did save my life. They have never told us what to run
or what not to run. They have been 100% helpful in all discussions looking into their
financing, if they should pay taxes, and what their plans are with Lakewood and
other hospitals. They have completely opened their books to the Observer when we asked.

Mr. O'Bryan,
So the difference between the .01% (340 people) and the less than .001% (25 people) are what kind of cases?... I like most citizens only have the numbers as reported in the SP/PD. If the numbers where as off as you report and are as stated in the letter to the Mayor you would have thought the CCF would have had them change the article between its two publications of the information. We must remember the CCF is going to paint this REDUCTION in services in the most positive light. We need independent study of the effects pros and cons.

I appreciate the discloser of your financial ties to the CCF. Do you have plans for an Avon Observer? Toby and the CCF have a check waiting with your name on it.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:Mr. O'Bryan,
So the difference between the .01% (340 people) and the less than .001% (25 people) are what kind of cases?... I like most citizens only have the numbers as reported in the SP/PD. If the numbers where as off as you report and are as stated in the letter to the Mayor you would have thought the CCF would have had them change the article between its two publications of the information. We must remember the CCF is going to paint this REDUCTION in services in the most positive light. We need independent study of the effects pros and cons.

Bill

I am not sure how enlarging a hospital, adding more but different services indicates a loss
of service? Now I am sure we lose some aspects, but all of our needed services are still
here. I think we are getting more better paying jobs, and maybe some residents.

But you are correct an independent study might be in order. In the end Lakewood owns
the hospital, The Clinic, is merely our tenant.

But I am curious, why do we as a city, selectively ask for transparency, and accountability?

Bill Trentel wrote:I appreciate the discloser of your financial ties to the CCF. Do you have plans for an Avon Observer? Toby and the CCF have a check waiting with your name on it. Bill

Bill

Man, you are really going O'Bryan/Call on me.

Each Observer is Independently owned, one of our philosophies is that each paper has to
be owned by someone living in that community. So Toby would have a check ready for an
Observer owner in Avon, and yes it is waiting. But that would help get the city's word out
without bias or control, and underwrite conversations like this one about/against The
Cleveland Clinic, like this one. That is a bad thing how? But it is not called the Observer
out there. Observer is a Cuyahoga County wide effort, outside of the county they are
called different names.

One of the things I appreciate about our relationship is how little they ask, but are always
willing to help us start a program, or get people involved. Considering how big they are, it
is amazing to me, how good they are to deal with. I have "financial ties" with every
medical system in town including Parma General, if we are speaking of advertisers or
clients, the Clinic is the least demanding.


.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bill

I am not sure how enlarging a hospital, adding more but different services indicates a loss
of service? Now I am sure we lose some aspects, but all of our needed services are still
here. I think we are getting more better paying jobs, and maybe some residents.

But you are correct an independent study might be in order. In the end Lakewood owns
the hospital, The Clinic, is merely our tenant.

But I am curious, why do we as a city, selectively ask for transparency, and accountability?

.

I contend that the end use (maybe if we're lucky) of the former Lakewood Hospital (now part of Fairview Hospital) will be similar to that of the former St. John's Hospital. I would think the few bed-pan changers at that facility make far less than the medical staff at St. John's Westshore. Or we could end-up like St Alexis, we are always looking for more green space.

I also contend that this whole process is like watching a well done magic trick. Watch this hand Fairview hospital expansion oh-ah, while all the real magic is going on in the other hand, with the real job and service movement is going from the former Lakewood Hospital to the New Avon Hospital.

All I'm really asking is that the CCF fulfill the contractual agreements it made to the citizens of Lakewood. The problem is that the CCF's goals are to maximize profits and the goals of our city leaders, to serve the citizens and protect our assets are opposite one another. Limiting the accessibility to their facilities by Medicaid, Medicare, uninsured and the under insured and chasing the good paying – privately insured to the sprawling suburbs will make them more profitable. Our city leaders should be looking help ensure the health and safety of the citizens of Lakewood. And protecting our public asset Lakewood Hospital (the building) seeing that it remains a viable service provider to the citizens of Lakewood.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:I also contend that this whole process is like watching a well done magic trick. Watch this hand Fairview hospital expansion oh-ah, while all the real magic is going on in the other hand, with the real job and service movement is going from the former Lakewood Hospital to the New Avon Hospital.

All I'm really asking is that the CCF fulfill the contractual agreements it made to the citizens of Lakewood. The problem is that the CCF's goals are to maximize profits and the goals of our city leaders, to serve the citizens and protect our assets are opposite one another. Limiting the accessibility to their facilities by Medicaid, Medicare, uninsured and the under insured and chasing the good paying – privately insured to the sprawling suburbs will make them more profitable. Our city leaders should be looking help ensure the health and safety of the citizens of Lakewood. And protecting our public asset Lakewood Hospital (the building) seeing that it remains a viable service provider to the citizens of Lakewood.

Bill

Bill


And in the end I have no guarantee from anyone, and one would ask does anyone?
But I have never heard described what you are describing or are afraid of. And I know
lots and lots of people in the Clinic system from janitors to VPs. Most relationships
from before the Observer.

I see no way that Avon Lake gets our services, and the Clinic fleas. Le's be honest the
Clinic owns Huron Road Hospital, which is managed to suit that community. So even if
that was our worse case scenario it is pretty damn good. I would like to believe that
I have a pretty good take on this one.

I think for Lakewood to have a Clinic Hospital gives us a pretty good chance for tomorrow.

I can think of many, many less favorable relationships.

What I see going on with the Clinic is specialization for each hospital. So that Fairview is
the cancer hospital. Lakewood is Diabetes, neuro, stroke and rehab. With the cost of the
I am not trying to make excuses for them, bu it makes sense to specialize facilities. It
also makes sense to make sure they can continue to give the community what it needs.

I believe the "packaged term" is "centers of excellence." I think, or hope it is better care
for all once you can be diagnosed.

.

The CCF is a not for profit entity, or at least the IRS thinks so.

So why would they do anything to maximize profits, when they don't have any. All they can do with their money is put it toward improving their service.

I think the assertions here that CCF is doing anything to maximize profits is written from a position of profound ignorance. How hard is it to look this stuff up before shooting from the lip? I will, for a very reasonable price, sell you some stock in CCF and you can collect the dividends.

Will Brown wrote:I think the assertions here that CCF is doing anything to maximize profits is written from a position of profound ignorance. How hard is it to look this stuff up before shooting from the lip?

I think this analysis is actually is spot on. Lakewood Hospital is being positioned by the Clinic as a center some specialties - Neurology, Orthopedics, Diabetes, and Geriatrics. Fairview will specialize in other areas.

Please at least read the document Jim posted before commenting further.

http://www.lakewoodhospital.org/LinkCli ... tabid=3337

There is not an overall reduction in services at Lakewood Hospital - there is expansion in some areas, reduction in others.

My wife just had a large brain tumor removed at Lakewood Hospital - not at the main campus, not at Fairview - at Lakewood. At Lakewood because Lakewood is the Clinic's center for Neurological Care. She received fantastic care from a highly skilled, life-saving staff that isn't going anywhere.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Let me get this straight. neurosurgery doctors and nurses get paid how much less, than
general nurses?

See this:

http://www.cleveland.com/medical/index. ... ood_1.html

Suppose the story was: Clinic to transfer services from Fairview Hosptial to Lakewood Hospital and invest another $75 million in new construction at Lakewood Hospital.

Do you suppose people ar Fairview would be enthused about the change?

Why does the Clinic refuse to invest any money in Lakewood unless the the Lakewood Hospital Foundation empties its treasury?

The bottom line is that the Clinic intends to slowly convert the hospital into a nursing home. Is that good for the City?

The City made a mistake in choosing the Clinic over the University Hospital system. As part of the Clinic we are one of many Clinic facilities on the Westside. If Lakewood Hospital were part of the University system it would be there premier facility on the Westside.

Is it too late to change?