Denying a child's right to an education....because of hair?

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 pm

I saw this story on MSNBC earlier today....

Boy rejected from school because of long hair

I know how much my parents have given up for the simple reason that my brother and I could get a good education here in the United States. Maybe some people don't understand how blessed children are here.

I think it is a human right to be able to attend a public school and receive an education. Why is this kid being denied that right? Because his heritage and religion asks for him to wear his long hair? THIS IS KINDERGARTEN, NOT PRINCETON!

I just don't understand it. I believe a dress code is not necessarily a bad thing, but I believe that no one should be denied their education because of the length of their hair.

I'd be interested to hear what the rest of the posters have to say about this one.

Stan Austin · Post by **Stan Austin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:04 pm

If it's for religious reasons, then long hair is ok. If he's a surfer dude, get it cut.

Missy Limkemann · Post by **Missy Limkemann** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:17 pm

you know I dont know how I feel about this. I can see both sides, but there is that nagging part of me that says where do we draw the line with what we can and cant do. If I want to let me son grow his hair long, but it is nice and kept up and clean what is the problem? Now if this is his religion, and this is his life style then he should be allowed to do what he wants. Homeschooling almost sounds good these days...LOL.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:19 pm

Stan Austin wrote::mrgreen: If it's for religious reasons, then long hair is ok. If he's a surfer dude, get it cut.

Keep your peace sign down, you might get expelled from school!

I hope the family sues the hell out of the district. This country was founded on the very issue of allowing religions to be practiced. it was also founded on the idea that state and church should be separated. School Boards and Religion should be separated too.

I'd completely understand this if it was a private religion-oriented kindergarten. But this is the same as if the Lakewood School Board ruled that muslim females could not wear head dresses. It's simply unconstitutional to make such a ruling.

This school district is taking this child's constitutional right away from him. His right to practice his religion and pursue happiness is being taken away. The family has every right to fight this ruling so that their child can keep his long hair and attend school.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:43 pm

If his religion said don't wear shoes is that ok too? I think it is tough to mix school dress code and religious beliefs sometimes.

How do you test sincerity? If kids can get out of swimming class by claiming they can't get their clothes wet, what happens to the kid that has a sudden conversion? Does the student have to pass some litmus test to get the pass?

This isnt a free for all, there need to be some controls. If the rules there to protect the majority step on the minority's religious beliefs, maybe home schooling isn't a bad option. I know plenty of Christians who do it because they feel some public schools don't fit their beliefs (some science, social issues, teen pressures, etc)

I think the responsibility of teaching a child needs to be placed on the parent and not the government. The government provides one option but it cannot fit into everyone's beliefs, so other options must be created by the parent, not the government. Thats why I support the voucher programs. The government isn't good at much, so lets take some of the pressure off.

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:50 pm

Well, here's a topic that I feel quite strongly about, being involved as I have been with education, and with Native American issues in the Cleveland area for many years.

Those unaware would need to learn a bit about the history of what happened to hundreds of Native children around the dawn of the 20th century, who were taken from their parents and put into boarding schools, made to remove their traditional garmets, lose their long hair, and were taught to forget Native ways, and to live in uniforms and styles as the dominant culture dictated.

This is a well-documented and, in my opinion, very sad story, and is near to the hearts of many Native Americans; whose families long remember so many attempts to destroy their traditional way of life.

Yes, wearing one's hair long is indeed a part of Native beliefs. As for the religious aspect, I believe that it would be safe to say (as a general observation) that whether some Native Americans were Christianized or not- in large part, their entire lives were, and are, considered to be religious in character. In Native culture generally, one does not separate the spiritual from the secular. All things intertwine.

Therefore, as I am certain that this particular school will quickly learn, they will need to allow for this particular hair issue, as other schools around the country are learning to adapt to other aspects of religious/cultural diversity with their other students.

Thank goodness we live in a present age where these kind of things can be discussed, and where more and more aspects of diversity are being supported by the laws of the land.

It is true that not all Native American men wear their hair long, just as it is that you or I have our own differences. For those who choose to follow the traditional way though, there needs to be reasonable and respectful allowance made.

In my opinion, it's simply the right thing to do.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:58 pm

The whole thing is really pathetic, but perhaps I am biased. I have a son with extremely long hair. He is a straight A student and has never caused any problems. I just don't see what the big deal is especially since this is part of that poor boys culture. Having spent several years in Arizona I saw what the Native Americans have gone through and the sad conditions they live in and it is so sad. I do hope that that little one can go back to school, it's the right thing to do. And personally I don't feel that his hair style does any harm.

Bret Callentine · Post by **Bret Callentine** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:04 am

any system that can not bend, will certainly break.

this goes for a system of rules as well.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:41 pm

Deja Vu - Any of you oldsters?

Stan - You forgot the 70's man?

Far out!

Stan Austin · Post by **Stan Austin** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:22 pm

Sharon-- It was the '60s. The surfers shudda had their hair cut :wink:

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:46 pm

http://web.mit.edu/career/www/guide/dress.html

I don't think public schools should ban long hair, but I don't think there is anything wrong with preparing kids for the reality of adult jobs.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:11 pm

Ryan Salo wrote:http://web.mit.edu/career/www/guide/dress.html

I don't think public schools should ban long hair, but I don't think there is anything wrong with preparing kids for the reality of adult jobs.

Times have changed. I've known several men that work adult jobs with long hair, tattoos and who don't generally look conservative.

Oh and one reason I have against forcing children to fit some perfect superficial mold is that we are teaching them that what is on the outside is more important than the inside. Also I hear all this "prepare them for the real world", how about let them be kids. I am in no hurry to have my kids grow up. I'd like them to be kids. Experiment with their clothing, let them express themselves. I know that my parents never worried about how I dressed and I was a good kid. I looked like a freak but I never ditched school, not one day. I was an honor student and was never arrested or got into any trouble. I get so sick of people be prejudiced. They are just kids, let them be kids and when it's time they will become adults.

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:13 pm

I think that Ryan makes a great point though. Getting students ready for the world of competitive employment was extremely important to me, as a former special class teacher.

In addition to appropriate grooming, and dressing tips, the issue of body language in an interview situation can be crucial, as well.

For example, no crossing of one's arms, no fidgeting or scratching, good posture, no"dead fish" handshakes, good eye contact, and measured speaking all help with the interview process, as does acting out potential questions and answers ahead of time in role-play situations. Whether they should do so or not, employers often size up candidates within the first few seconds of meeting them.

Having a practice job application in the back pocket, with references and employment history already written out (and permission asked and given to use references chosen!) is also important, so that one can speedily fill out and respond to information requested.

All that pointed out though, employers are not supposed to discriminate, so the theoretical prospective employee dressing according to their religious or cultural background should be OK for consideration, so long as they were neat. Issues like long hair and food were solved long ago with nets, etc...

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:59 pm

This is absurd. What difference does it make whether or not he has long hair? Religion or not, if it doesn't affect the ability of other students to learn, who cares?

I think 5 is a tad young to worry about preparing him for his first job interview.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:45 am

Brad Hutchison wrote:This is absurd. What difference does it make whether or not he has long hair? Religion or not, if it doesn't affect the ability of other students to learn, who cares?

I think 5 is a tad young to worry about preparing him for his first job interview.

Well said Brad. I get so tired of hearing that dress codes or conservative uniforms are going to make students smarter or well behaved. I don't buy it. No one in any of AP classes in high school was distracted by my pink hair, it didn't stop any of us for scoring well on our AP exams. I agree with teaching about job interviews and body language, but someone can still be well groomed with long hair. And that's the last I am going to say because we all have our ideas about what kinds of clothing and hair styles we deem appropriate and I doubt anyone will be changing their minds anytime soon.