The Observation Deck

Was the last five hundred years of European history a detour on the path to Dar El-Islam?

For those with open eyes:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB12Aa02.html

For those with eyes wide shut:

http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/cat ... &printer=y

For most of the last 500 years in Europe there were different laws for different blood and guild classes of White Christian Europeans. Marriages were frequently of convenience or compulsion. Divorce basically didn't exist as an accessible legal tool for most people until at least the early 20th century, so they stayed in abusive relationships.

Europe is too far away from Mexico for there to be a lot of Mexican immigrants. Fortunately Britain ruled large chunks of Asia and Africa for over a hundred years, so there are plenty of people from there who speak english better than many Clevelanders. Conversely, most Mexican immigrants speak better english than many young clevelanders after a few years here.

Europeans aren't at risk from violence from muslim immigrants. They're more likely to be violented up by white skinheads, soccer hooligans, punks, neo-nazis, etc. In America if you die violently it will probably be from a car accident or another not-Muslim American.

There are two explanations for Europes comparatively small military. The first is that the various members of Europe have been through way more war than us over the last 200 years: they know more about it than us: they have a more informed opinion about it than us. This informs the thousands of little nuances that make up culture and knowledge they take for granted and we cannot take for granted.

The second is that the United States' own obsolete military commitments to Europe pre-empt them from analyzing their own military needs objectively. If you want them to arm up, you'll have to close down all our bases there.

They like Butter more than Guns. It seems to work for them. Tourists go to Europe for the culture and architecture. When tourists come to the United States it is usually to visit parks or buy guns.

Here is some worthless historic trivia: During the 1930s Nazi Germany was the top export market for Hollywood movies. they were good movies: anyone could have a gun or a car or a horse and 300 acre ranch.



A strong military really can't prevent something like 9/11. It cannot outlaw the sale of microsoft flight simulator or plastic box cutters. We've spent the kind of money we spent during world war II occupying some pissant state like Iraq. Iraq was about as industrialized as Cuyahoga County 40 years ago. Iran is three times bigger than Iraq and borders Pakistan. If you invade Iran you will have muslims from all around Iran flocking to Iran like Pioneer hicks scrambled to Texas after Davey Crocket died at the Alamo.

Leaders of the church of England will try to raise hysteria because most members of the church of England don't care about the Church of England. They are trying to get more British folks to go to church, but the explanation of the moral superiority of British Christian Culture is that most members are smart enough to take most of the stuff in the Bible seriously. There's plenty of violent or nonsensical stuff in the bible: we've just advanced to the point of not taking it seriously.

I have not read the Sheehan book but have read the review of it.
I dont think you need to be an expert historian or philosopoher to see why, after the tens of millions of dead in the 20th cent, Europe abhors war as immoral and futile.
We lost 3000 people one day and justified anything we wanted to do in the aftermath because "that changed everything". After Stalin, Hitler, two world wars and so many smaller ones that killed at least 10,000 times that many, didnt "that change everything" for Europe?

Dee Martinez wrote:I dont think you need to be an expert historian or philosopoher to see why, after the tens of millions of dead in the 20th cent, Europe abhors war as immoral and futile........ After Stalin, Hitler, two world wars and so many smaller ones that killed at least 10,000 times that many, didnt "that change everything" for Europe?

Yes, it did.

The Germany of WW1 was ideologically not very different from Nazi Germany. A German victory in WW1 would have meant a German dominated world little different from a Nazi dominant world.

I use to think WW1 was avoidable and unnecessary. It was neither. Although in reading about the slaughter of 40,000 men in one day at the Somme I think after the war was won they should have shot all the generals.

Europe could easily have surrendered to Hitler or Stalin. The iron will of Churchill saved the world from National Socialism and the wisdom of Truman saved it from International Socialism.

But, you are correct that Europe is worn out. Given the choice between fighting to save its civilization or letting waste away they have chosen to let it waste away.

One of the conceits of civilization is that civilized people think that the clock only runs forward. Fifty years from now Europe will be little different from Afghanistan under the Taliban. The people know it, they just don't care.

"Wasting away"? Because theyre not spending every waking moment terrified of, and trying to blow up, Muslims?
Europe has chosen peace and economic development over dead bodies. As was brilliantly laid out in a NYT Sunday Magazine piece a few weeks ago, there are three 'brands" in the world economy today, the US, China, and a unified Europe. Each of the three leaders is looking to make deals with client states. Europe is doing quite well in the competition.
The European countries are using their money to build their economic brand rather than pouring it into bombs like the US.
European "success" may not look exactly like the US version (neither does China's), but theyre happy with it, and theyre competing quite well with us.

Dee, I read that article too. It was very interesting. We are definitely NOT the economic super power we once were.

ANother book that someone suggested to me about Europe and Islam is "While Europe Slept-- How radical Islam is destroying Europe from Within" by Bruce Bawer. She told me that it was a very interesting read.

So, if in truth the war against jihadism is to be a war against Islam, what do proponents here on the deck of such an idea propose?

The Churchill analogy might be a good basis: total war requiring total sacrifice. Although this ideological view might also analogize the benefits to the Brits of having a US ally that didn't have its economy ravaged by actual dropping bombs. Today, our current war is supported by purchase of our debt and dollar denominated oil sales to the very countries that will have to be defeated completely to win such a war.

***

So, given this gloss, and given the inherent suppositions, and folding in the requirement for total compliance to these views on the part of the US citizenry, it seems reasonable to suggest what timeline will be required to insure:

(1) compliance of all US citizens; temporary dictatorship
(2) complete shift to war economy
(3) complete shift away from having our enemies finance war said economy
(4) sacrifice of standard of living temporarily to enable defeat of 1.5+ billion Islamic absolutists bent on converting non-believers
(5) implementation of violent means to irrevocably defeat Islam; probably ten-twenty 1-5 kiloton nukes would provide salutary effects
(6) forced conversion of remaining Muslims to some other religion or humanist belief system

finally,

(7) provisions for unknowable blowback and economic dislocations
(8) restoration of US Republic after temporary dictatorship
(9) big parade

***

I have yet to read a single article on how Islam is to be defeated by anybody who advocates that in fact it is Islam that *must be defeated*.

Draconian solutions are ramified by implying that the threat is such.

Whereas cowardly implying the threat is such without having the cajones to specify the plan for victory seems incredible.

To me, jihadism is completely separate from islam or the muslim religion. We've had smaller scale religious terrorism here in the states and no one has outright gone after Christian Evangelicals and proposed to drop nukes on large concentrations of them. Like Christianity, Islam has some seriously radical factions that should not be identified with the whole Muslim religion or culture.

Germany got suckered into WWI by its alliance with the Austro-Hungarian empire, which no longer exists.

Napolean was not technically a socialist or communist. Socialism and Communism didn't really exist yet. But the United States essentially fought on his side by fighting England during the war of 1812. We fought the war of 1812 against England because English ships were doing the same stuff to us that French ships were doing to us in the Caribbean during the 1790s.

It must make the United States look better to make Europe out to have all these modern problems. Whatever those problems are. How many Muslims live in Europe? How many immigrants live in the United States?

Europe is in better shape than us because they need less oil per capita than us. Their currency is also growing, so they can afford to pay more for the oil.

It could be argued that the U.S. currency should be worth more because we have more Freedom and Tax cuts and looser labor laws than Europe. But somehow Europe has less debt and produces more tangible goods and services to trade. Even though they have less trade and less freedom and less tax cuts.

It took a lot of strong lobbying by our Saudi Arabian allies to prevent the Mideast Oil exporters from trading more heavily in Euros a few months ago. The potential difference in what we would pay for oil if this would happen is probably less than we've spent occupying the middle east, but that is ok, because our top military guys and top contractors deserve the work: they believe in Freedom and Tax Cuts.

There is a trend in Europe to resist mideast cultural influence. I don't know if it is conservative or liberal. Some of them also see Christianity as a Mideast influence. They are exploring their European heritage by reviving Odinism or Paganism. Then there are people like Burzum.

It is good to see the conservatives in this country embracing Christianity. Christianity has the 7 deadly sins. Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride. The Post-Industrial Economy has been all about promoting these sins. It is about outsourcing manufacturing to spend more on advertising. In the past advertising existed at a modest level: It was paid for by profits from gains in productivity made through technology and on the job learning. In the Global era this is the opposite. American Consumerism promotes each of these sins.

Watching tv teaches people to Envy. And there are ads for Viagra, Levitra, and breast implants almost every hour.

American Consumerism is more deadly than lead poisoning. It damages or deranges a significant percentage of people from all economic classes. Just hang out at Tower City for a while and you will see. The Rich aren't spared either: The latest generation of Hilton heirs are total trash. That is why we need immigrants to own motels and hotels and convenience stores. Conservatives blame these defects on Liberals, then borrow money to invade Iraq after Saudi Arabians from Afghanistan fly jetliners into buildings: That is the sin of Wrath, and possibly Pride.

ryan costa wrote:Germany got suckered into WWI by its alliance with the Austro-Hungarian empire, which no longer exists..

You are wrong about World War I.

The Germans wanted the war and did everything in their power to start it. They forced the hand of Austria Hungry to force the and of Russia to force the hand of France to force the hand of England.

The Kaiser had grand imperial ambitions and realized that Germany would be relatively weaker over time. His Army chief of staff, Moltke, agreed. World War I was Moltke's war.

This short article describes the events in a nut shell:

http://www.thetrumpet.com/print.php?q=1594.0.75.0

Just ignore the last few paragraphs.

ryan costa wrote:It must make the United States look better to make Europe out to have all these modern problems. Whatever those problems are. How many Muslims live in Europe? How many immigrants live in the United States?.

It's not a matter of how many there are but who they are. The Muslims of Europe are not interested in assimilation or becoming more Westernized. They don't want to become Europeans they want Europeans to become Muslims.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019903.php

Each year larger and larger areas of Britain are becoming miniature caliphates:

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioW ... 7UYtk1zFPQ

ryan costa wrote:Europe is in better shape than us because they need less oil per capita than us. ..

No they are not. Do the math:

http://www.demographia.com/db-intlppp-regiona.htm

The United States exported $1.6 trillion dollars worth of goods and services last year. That's almost as much in exports as Germany produces.

ryan costa wrote: In the Global era this is the opposite. American Consumerism promotes each of these sins.

Watching tv teaches people to Envy. And there are ads for Viagra, Levitra, and breast implants almost every hour.

American Consumerism is more deadly than lead poisoning. ..

I don't understand this aversion to consumerism. The American people live in nice houses, have nice cars, enjoy cell phones, i phones, i pods, on line chat, you tube, you porn and you name it. So what?

Some people have a romantic view of poverty. It's like Algore visiting the backward areas of Bulgaria to visit people still living without central heat or running water and exclaiming "What a wonderful way to live!". What he means is that it's a wonderful way for YOU to live.

Which in a round about way brings us back to 21st Century Europe as 15th Century Afghanistan. The Europeans are reproducing at less than the replacement rate. In a few years 70% of the children in England will be the children of Muslim immigrant whose hearts and minds are in the 15th Century.

Civilization is only one generation thick.

It is the contemporary magnitude of consumerism that has this rotting effect on 5 or 10 or twenty percent of the population. It isn't about political ideology. Most of the conservative chickenhawks over 55 in government were suburban kids who grew up watching too many movies.

But Bush says Iraq was the Challenge of this generation, like World War II was before. Puny states like Iraq and the Taliban don't compare to the industrial superpowers that Germany and Japan were. But if that is his commitment he should realize there's no point in keeping the bases in Europe and East Asia open: He should close them and open bases in the MidEast and Nigeria for the next 60 years. that is the platform his party should take to voters.

A lot of the immigrants to England aren't even Muslim. There are plenty of Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Chaldean Catholics, Jains, Bahá'í, etc. Most of the Muslims quickly become as agnostic or secular as Christians there. This rush to sustain or increase the population is a result of Globalism thrusting the image of enormously overpopulated asian countries into so many policy makers minds.

World War I was more complicated that than. Russia scared the hell out of everyone. The Great Game was a contest between Russia and Britain to see who could get the most of Asia throughout the 19th century. The system of alliances kept shuffling.

Central Heating is great. Factories employing Americans to make all kinds of furnaces are great. Engineers and hack mechanics and hack electricians designing all sorts of new furnaces are great.

I don't see any magazines about designing and using and configuring these vital appliances at the check out line. I don't see magazines about any useful machinery, vocations, professions, performing arts, local amateur sports, industry, crafts, anything at the checkout lines. I don't run into people talking about any of these things, except occasionally people over 70. all I see are magazines about celebrity gossip, celebrity news, and celebrity speculation.

When you dig up small city newspapers or college newspapers from 40 or 50 or 80 years ago there are ads in them for all kinds of goods produced in town, and all kinds of different shops in town. It was like there was more going on, and things were less absurd.

I could almost swear that twenty years ago you would find at least a few serious magazines on most checkout aisle newstands. popular mechanics, popular science, national geographic, Nature, Discover. anything.

When I lived in columbus all the new houses and apartment buildings I encountered were big and flimsy and smelled like glue. I could probably puncture the walls from the outside with a baseball or punch.

Germany is a small place relative to the U.S. Any comparisons between the two of us must be made proportionately. Comparisons between us and the total European Union are more accurate, but must also be considered proportionately. Total exports are not so important as how they relate to total consumer debt, government debt, and balance of trade: that's why our currency is sinking.

The subprime mortgage crisis and looming credit card default crisis are simply a result of modern consumerism. This might be hard for you to understand because you are more intelligent that average and take this for granted. Most mortgage defaulters and credit card defaulters were simply doing what they've always been trained to do.

Watch any MTV "reality" programming or just hang out in the McDonaldses.

The militant muslim youth in Europe are a minority of the muslims in Europe. All of the Muslims I've met here so far are decent people. We need them to replace the Americans corrupted by the modern magnitude of consumerism into urban trash or reverted to some kind of neo-rednecks in the the suburbs.

Europe won't be overwhelmed by muslims. It is ok: the north African muslims, arab muslims, Iranian Muslims, Pakistani muslims, Indian Muslims, and bangladesh muslims end up not liking each other. The West Indy Christians balance it out.