The Observation Deck

Well, unfortunately it seems that kitchen counters do not age well, like a fine wine, or a well-made cheese. And while some would delight in the 1960s-era laminate counters in my kitchen, I'm not so fond of retro that we'd keep them forever. So it's time for them to leave, to be replaced by something a bit newer.

So the first thing we're wondering about is which kind ... we're leaning between corian and quartz. For some reason, granite just doesn't do anything for us. Sure, it'll help the resale value, but frankly, we're planning on being here a long time. I could care less about the resale value, because I wasn't raised to buy a house, live in it a few years and keep trading up until I get that dream McMansion in the far 'burbs. Nope I chose Lakewood to be my home and where I raise my family ... not to be a way-station.

So we like corian and quartz (and quartz mostly because it was ranked the best in Consumer Reports, and it's frankly, not that much more expensive than the Corian we like).

Does anyone have any experiences pro/con with either of these??

And secondly, does anyone have any recommendations for any companies that do kitchen remodeling? We'll likely replace our too-small kitchen sink at the same time, which might make it a bit more difficult of a job for companies that just do counters and nothing else. Of course, price-wise, we're tempted by Lowe's ... but I don't feel too good talking to the teenager there who's experience is limited to taking orders and cleaning the various countertops they display. I'd like to talk to someone who actually KNOWS what they're talking about.

But then I'm also worried that one of the big companies would scoff at such a small job, and instead focus on the people who are spending $85,000 to renovate their entire kitchens (and frankly, for that much money, just get rid of your house and go buy a new one!).

Any ideas??

c. dawson wrote:... we're leaning between corian and quartz.

I built my kitchen using roughsawn Cherry that I milled myself. I also used Cherry plywood for the cabinet cases - kitchen cabinets are the absolute easiest cabinets to build; plywood boxes with hardwood face frames attached, then attach door and drawer fronts of the style you want with European hardware - that's how decent cabinets are built. The junk you buy the big box stores is made from using flakeboard/pressboard cases. As soon as moisture gets to the bases, they fall apart. They are not meant to last long. But I suppose you don't care about my opinions on that...

I topped my cabinets with Corian. The quartz variants are nice too. My parents used that. I believe the Corian requires a bit more maintenance than the quartz. You need to clean and polish it (the Corian) often if you want to keep it shinny. It is a little softer. Which can be a good thing because a glass won't break as easily if you bang it. Granite, which can often be cheaper than the man made materials, is quite hard and will break things. It's is also much harder to repair and chips easily. Corian and the other man made materials can be repaired easily.

Just make sure the cabinets can support it. Especially if you decide granite. You must have proper support otherwise when everything settles, a crack might develope. Because granite is usually cheaper than the made materials, don't discount it.

BTW, the man made stuff like Dupont's Corian is fabricated and installed by basically one company here in the Cleveland area, he is over on w.150th near I-71. The man made granite stuff is mostly done by a company out of Canada - they measure, pre-cut/pre-fab it, then install it. Home cheapo and blowe's use the same people.

c. dawson wrote:Sure, it'll help the resale value, but frankly, we're planning on being here a long time. I could care less about the resale value, because I wasn't raised to buy a house, live in it a few years and keep trading up until I get that dream McMansion in the far 'burbs.

Most Americans don't think that way. That is why big box kitchens sell even though you most likely will outlive them... Americans no longer know what quality cabinets and furniture are. Don't get me started...
If you plan on staying in your home a long time, I would be very leary of the big box cabinets.

That said, you have to get what you can afford and sometimes the big box press board stuff is it. There is always the do-it-yourself route. It is a huge job though. There is a reason why people pay big money for quality (truly) custom cabinets. BTW, the stuff at the the big box stores is not custom cabinets. They are all the same produced in a factory (most likely near Ashtabula), how is that custom?

c. dawson wrote:Does anyone have any experiences pro/con with either of these??

I like Corian better. It's personal preference really. Both are durable. With both, you have to constantly be aware of scratches, stains, and heat. Much more so than you are now with your Formica.

c. dawson wrote:And secondly, does anyone have any recommendations for any companies that do kitchen remodeling? We'll likely replace our too-small kitchen sink at the same time, which might make it a bit more difficult of a job for companies that just do counters and nothing else.

Not really. I've always heard very very good things about Breits Kitchens (216.651.5800 5218 Detroit) and there's always Wright Kitchen over by the scooter store. Keep in mind though, even though they might say 'custom cabinets', even these small custom cabinet shops are primarily selling prefabricated, or semi prefabricated, cabinets. However, these are typically built better than those of the big box stores.

BTW, some of these places will just deliver the cabinets and allow you to install them. That may be an option for you.

A co-worker just did his kitchen using cabinets he ordered from Breits. They were custom built to his specs. He is anal about these things like me and he was very happy with the workmanship of the cabinets he ordered. He was also happy with the way Breits was willing to work with him on the project. Also, I know somebody who did the same thing with Breits probably about 30 years ago and the cabinets are still hanging strong.

c. dawson wrote:Of course, price-wise, we're tempted by Lowe's ... but I don't feel too good talking to the teenager there who's experience is limited to taking orders and cleaning the various countertops they display.

You know the old adage, you get what you pay for... if you are the kind of person who doesn't notice flaws in a finish, crooked cabinet doors, rough rolling drawer slides... that kind of thing, you may be perfectly happy with a big box kitchen. For a few years anyway...

c. dawson wrote:But then I'm also worried that one of the big companies would scoff at such a small job, and instead focus on the people who are spending $85,000 to renovate their entire kitchens (and frankly, for that much money, just get rid of your house and go buy a new one!).
Any ideas??

I suspect right now they are looking for work.

c. dawson wrote:Nope I chose Lakewood to be my home and where I raise my family

c., that is your choice. You have to live with that. We can't help you...

The above are just my opinions. Worth every penny you paid.

Thanks Joe!

We're actually going to keep our cabinets, which are made out of real wood, and while older, fit the architectural style of our house. If anything, we'll give 'em a fresh coat of paint. The countertop is pretty deplorable, so that needs replacement.

My biggest fear is finding a company or contractor that will do a good job and not charge me an arm and two legs, spread the job over many weeks, and ultimately do a bad job. I've been checking Angie's Lists, and there's an awful lot of negative reports out there for kitchen remodeling!

One thing you may consider is just doing a portion of the counter in a stone, because in spite of what you hear on the house porn shows, bad things can happen with big slabs of stone. Granite tiles are not a bad compromise and you can easily install them yourself.

A lot of older homes used to have a portion of a counter in granite that was considered the "baking" area.

Every counter you choose is going to need some upkeep - except formica - but it has its own set of problems. There are some new formica finishes that are pretty nice - that look like granite (and better than Corian, IMO). Corian has a lot of good qualities.

I also love finished cement counters, but these are tricky to do yourself and they also can crack.

You have the benefit of living in a city that has registered contractors listed on its web site and if you have a problem with one of those contractors, you have a better chance of getting your dispute settled that working with an outside contractor.

Even if you do the work yourself, please make sure you get all of the required permits. It isn't difficult and having Lakewood's inspectors involved is a good thing.

Habitat for Humanity has a store that has all sorts of things. We have found that when it comes to all things plumbing, Lowe's is better than Home Depot. Do shop the smaller stores to see if they will match or better prices. Price stuff online!

You can easily be your own contractor and hire the sub contractors to help with the parts of the job you can't do yourself, but really there's a LOT you can do yourself.

And if you decide you need a pale yellow kitchen sink, drop me a line.

c. dawson wrote:My biggest fear is finding a company or contractor that will do a good job and not charge me an arm and two legs, spread the job over many weeks, and ultimately do a bad job. I've been checking Angie's Lists, and there's an awful lot of negative reports out there for kitchen remodeling!

Sorry I guess I misunderstood your post. It lead me to believe you were looking at cabinets as well (reference to Lowe's). Above makes me think you are looking to do a whole kitchen, so I'm still confused...

Anyway if all you are looking for is counter tops, tell the guy that at Lowe's or the people at the place off I-90 and Clague, or the place on West 150th (before I-71) that's all you want. They should be able to handle removal of the old and put down the new. It's a simple job as long as you current cabinets will handle it. One caveat is code. You might have problems with your plumbing and electrical if you involve the city...

If you are looking for someone to do this kind of work for you, or the ugly stuff you don't want to take on, PM me. I'll give you the name/number of a guy who does just about everything. He's a certified mechanic, plumber, electrician, blah blah blah. He has been working on Lkwd homes since the 70's. He knows them in and out.

He is the ONLY person I trust to do the things I don't want to do myself. He is honest with you and a straight shooter; no bs from him.

I believe the place on West 150th is Wood Dimensions. A friend of ours works there. His counter and sink are Corian, all one piece.

I will also recommend Wood Dimensions, They have a long standing employee base and their work is all over the country in hotel chains. Locally they do small jobs as well as million dollar jobs.

I've not heard of Wood Dimensions before ... do they just do fabrication of counters, or will they do installation as well? Or would I have to find my own contractor to actually do the installation?

c. these are the people i refer to in paragraph 4 of my op.

They used to be the only company around who did the fabrication for Dupont (Corian) and so on. It may be their contract prohibits them from selling directly to you. Who knows. Call them.

I kinda remember too their counter top part of the business was not Wood Dimensions but called something else.

Good luck.

They will do design fabrication and installation, the products for counter tops could be exotic wood, Formica, Corian or stone.