The Observation Deck

Demro’s Curfew Passes Unanimously

The City curfew law had not been changed since 1965, but citing changes in society and safety within the city, Councilman Ryan Patrick Demro recently strengthened the law. Demro requested that the legislation be fast-tracked in anticipation of the summer months. That change won unanimous passage in City Council on Monday and the new law takes effect immediately.

[i]“It was time for city hall to get proactive about crime and mischief in our communityâ€Â

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Demro’s Curfew Passes Unanimously

Will it actually be called "Demro's Curfew", or will it have an ordinance number?

So now the question becomes....will this actually be enforced?

Yes it will be enforced.

at least it was enforced last night. picking up my best friends 14 year old brother after he was busted wasn't fun haha

Bryan:

Enforcement requires manpower.

When the community and elected officials send the police a message of political determination, respect and adequate support for the fair, equal and respectful treatment of all under the law, I have no doubt we will see enforcement.

That said, you should know one of the trespassers I spoke with in Jim's photograph from Harrison School was arrested the next week for curfew violation with three others.

Again, I believe it is critical for all of us to understand the police can only do what is possible with the manpower at hand. They are doing a mighty job, I believe, under circumstances that will require an infusion of considerable cash to achieve the proactive force required to ramp-out quality of life enforcement and crime stopping.

I see in another post one of Ivor's peeps got popped.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

The kid could have been coming home from a Bible study group and wearing a suit and tie. The police force must treat all violators equally in enforcement of the curfew. And it's always easy to be cynical. Let's hope the low-maintenance low-hanging fruit are not the only ones plucked off the streets for curfew violation, due to the manpower shortage and attempt to show raw numbers.

Kenneth Warren

[quote]It was time for city hall to get proactive about crime and mischief in our communityâ€Â

The law should be amended or erased. The police should only bust juveniles who deserve it.

When I was a juvenile sometimes I would walk home at 2 or 3 in the morning. But I didn't deserve to be hassled by the cops, because I was a good guy. I didn't curse loudly in public, spit on the sidewalk, litter, or commit random acts of theft, harassment, or violence.

Here is a story my grandpa told me recently. in the 1950s, after he'd gotten out of the army, he and some friends were roller skating late at night. They stopped at an all night diner. 5 cops came in. One of his friends hummed a few bars from the opening them of the show "Dragnet". The Cops threw them all in jail for the night. They let them out in the morning without pressing charges. It might have been what they used to call a "drunk tank".

So you see, even though they didn't do anything technically illegal, the authorities used informal discretion and authority. That's a large reason why things were more pleasant back then. But after World War II everyone started going to college and becoming lawyers, or more picky civil servants than had previously been adequate.

Instead of new laws and codes, we just need a few red pens. We just need to cross out most of the laws and statutes and codes written over the last 50 years. Some of the stuff about racism and sexual harassment is ok to keep; that is about it.

Councilman Demro:

To write quality of life legislation and not acknowledge the resources for enforcement must also flow is to act in bad faith.

I find your answer to Jeff's inquiry falls wide the mark.

As I read your answer, I see maximal political calculation and minimal street smarts.

Playing politics with the issue of critical safety at this time is not a winning solution.

Whatever management tools you imagine yourself deploying as Mayor, whatever scientific justification you might seek to qualify and defer the reckoning, 30 more men in blue with guns are needed, the sooner the better.

The longer we wait, the greater the need.

Kenneth Warren

I will be happy to support a police levy when it is demonstrated that the current force is being used to its fullest in the most effective way possible and that additional resources will solve the problems at hand. Its time for CitiStat to go citywide. Tom George needs to stop hiding and start facing the realities of effective management.

LET"S DEBATE...

Wow. Debates and study groups aren't going to rein in the chaos makers. Changes in curfew, additional laws are words on paper without the safety forces backing them up.

Ken, I guess that means that Mr. Demro would rather talk about law enforcement than lead the fight to provide it. And it really is a shame, because if you really wanted to use this as a campaign issue, you could turn it into an absolute winner:

First, you give recognition to the need for emergency increases in Police staffing. Safety is enhanced and all the citizens of Lakewood love you for the bold dynamic leadership you displayed. Once safety is restored, you demand the studies and inquiries. If those find, many months down the road, that the safety crisis was a result of mismanagement, VOILA, you're doubly the hero as you point to the exigent need created by a predecessor. If there is no such finding, then VOILA, you're still winner for having anticipated the need and found the solution. A win-win for the astute politician.

Frankly. I'd much rather solve the problem and then debate its causes which necessitated taking proactive, bold steps in leadership. So let's have a debate....by all means. The person that will win that debate will be the leader who can proclaim that a summer of chaos was averted by their strong, effective leadership. Absent that, after the studies and political finger pointing, there is only one huge loser...Lakewood and its citizens whose safety was less of a concern than the attraction of using that issue, rather than its solution, as a campaign tool.

Jeff

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Jeff,

I will be happy to support a police levy when it is demonstrated that the current force is being used to its fullest in the most effective way possible and that additional resources will solve the problems at hand. Its time for CitiStat to go citywide. Tom George needs to stop hiding and start facing the realities of effective management.

LET"S DEBATE...

Ryan

Instead of the constant chant of "let's debate" Why not let us know what you have acquired to prove it is not effective? This is not a game we play, some of us take to the streets practicing what we preach.

Last night Ken, Slife and I hit the streets with Dan telling us the nice and horrible parts of his recent visit to the Left Coast. To paraphrase. Dan when asked what he learned on the trip, "Only two options left, Lakewood or a twenty acre farm, right now I prefer Lakewood. The coasts are no longer viable options."

Numbers from you I would like to know, as this is Demro's Law. What prompted this change? Graffiti? Crime? Basketball? It would be interesting to see through Citistat, what are the percentages of calls now answered? Crime, Domestic, Nuisance, Curfew? It would also be interesting to see how many "criminals" come from Lakewood or outside of Lakewood. My bet, outside coming in.

Ryan, last night was quiet, mostly domestic, and curfew. We wondered allowed how can we burden police with more laws to enforce with the same human power?

When you answer a serious inquiry from a voter and leader in this city with, "The mayor is hiding. Let's debate!" It sounds dreadfully political. This leads citizens and voters to think you care more about the game of politics, over the security and interests of the city. We both know that is not trues, but perception is everything.

I was impressed with how quiet the streets were last night. I was also thinking back to when I had free roam of the city, and through that learned to respect people's property in exchange for my freedom of travel.

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Jim

It's pretty simple. Two steps. With an optional bonus round.

Step one, determine whether there is a safety problem. If none exists, fine. If a problem is present (as demonstrated by the need to change curfews), proceed to step 2.

Step two: Solve the problem identified in step one, by providing the necessary wherewithal to protect the residents and their property.

Bonus round: Study, debate, dissect, and analyze the causes in Step 1 that necessitated Step 2.

In a situation involving the safety of the residents, it is far more important to first resolve that issue than it is to analyze why it occurred.

Jeff

And it just occurred to me you could add an audience participation round. The citizens could vote on which was more important to them....the person who identified and solved an emergency problem, or the person whose study explained why it occurred....

Jeff Endress wrote: If a problem is present (as demonstrated by the need to change curfews), proceed to step 2.
Jeff

Jeff

Am I missing something?

I am being told things that do not always add up.

This is why I am interested in why we need to protect ourselves from our children.

FWIW


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Jim/Ken/Jeff,

I would really be interested to know what qualifies you to make the judgement that we need more police? I have not seen you at any of the budget hearings over the past four years. The Police Chief did not make any requests for increased staffing during those hearings, nor did the Mayor. So what is really at hand here??

Where is your data? What says that we need more police? Why isn't it the strategy that should change? I am not insisting that I know the answer, as I continue to investigate the problem. I am still trying to figure out how you get to the conclusion you do so quickly.

Secondly, if you find the mayor to be such a great a non-political leader, where is he in this discussion? Or should I expect to get answers from surrogates as usual? If he feels that we should increase staffing levels in police, why did he wait until crime reached these critical levels to address it?

Also, curfew is not a NEW law Jim. It was an existing one that I strengthened. It was done with the complete support of the Lakewood Police Department. Officer Ciresi testified that it would allow our force to clean kids out of the parks and off the streets earlier and would allow them to focus on more serious crime. In addition, it doesn't matter whether the crime comes from Lakewood or Cleveland, the victims are always Lakewoodites and it needs to be fought either way. Blaming our crime on Cleveland might help you build the Lakewood brand, but it doesn't do much for the residents of Baxterly Avenue that feel terrorized these days.

I know that some of you view the pocketbook of the Lakewood taxpayer as an endless tax pit, but wantonly suggesting tax increases gets us nowhere at this point. Somebody is gonna lose soon, will it be the schools with an impending operating levy? To me it doesn't make sense to suggest a solution such as increasing taxes without examining the data.

Youth curfew laws are "feel good" laws that make people think something is being done to curb crime. In fact, there is NO evidence that curfew laws reduce crime.

They are a politically expedient action that take advantage of false perceptions.

http://www.youthtoday.org/youthtoday/Nov06/front2.html

http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v1n2/males.html

http://www.cnn.com/US/9806/10/teen.curfiew/index.html


Even the legality of curfews has been challenged:

http://www.aclu.org/crimjustice/juv/10190prs20030123.html


While my own children are subject to a much more strict, parent-enforced curfew, I can't say I'm too impressed with this new law. It strikes me as posturing and a mere band-aid.

If crime is up in Lakewood, and I'd like to see figures backing that contention, you can be sure juveniles are not the main instigators of crime. What are we doing to crack down on adult offenses?

Ryan

I cannot speak for Ken and Jeff. Actually I think we are on different sides of the table on curfew. I want parents to be responsible for their bad kids, not all of society and our police.

As for my data, it comes from years of being on the streets, talking with police, other cities and applying common sense. It comes from walking the streets of Tremont, Cleveland Height, Rocky River, Parma, Old Brooklyn, Harvard, etc until late and night and talking to people. I have to be honest, I am not a councilman, nor professional. But you are, where are the facts you want to site, where are the documents?

I am more than curious why Basketball Hoops are removed than a month later we start an initiative to get kids off of streets. It seems like one could cause the other. Why build courts, if we are not going to equip them? Why teach kids to exercise and do things, to lock them up?

You as a councilman and mayor candidate you tell me there is waste and laziness in the police department. As a resident that has three businesses in your ward, and city you are running for mayor, maybe you could explain.

I hate the idea of a police levy. I have disagreed with Ken on this for more than a year. However I do not see the answer to the problem locking down law abiding citizens in their homes. Unlike some running for office I think the streets are safe with a major exception for those coming into Lakewood to rob, steal and create chaos not my neighbors.

As you mentioned building the brand, many times it is repairing the brand when zealots get things painfully wrong. Which is the better brand builder? We are locking down our city and law abiding citizens and getting ready to study the effect of crime on our community. Or, Lakewood hires 30 police add 9 police per shift, starts residency incentives, and upgrades technology.

Just think, who ever the mayor is, "Yes we like Lakewood safe and decided to get in front of the current crime stats being reflected in Cleveland, Rocky River, Avon Lake, etc. Lakewood is a walkable community, the citizens wanted to make sure it is a safe walkable community. Lakewood Police are dedicated, so we thought it was time we give them as much support as the skate park." Talk about brand building.

I am not anxious to spend my money in the government, really I am not. But it is far cheaper and more effective to be ahead of the curve on this, then wait. I only need two things from city hall, safe and clean.


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