So, How Much Do They Make?

[Bill Call]

The question was raised in another post about how much they make.

Here is a list of total wages and benefits paid to the top 150 or so City employees. Keep two things in mind. One, the total does not include the cost of all benefits. Fire and Police employees also have retirement health care "premiums" paid by the City. Two, since this list was compiled there have been double digit increases in pay and benefits. Add another 20% or so to the numbers you see. Three, some sick time accrues and can be paid upon retirement

Also keep in mind that under the Fire Departments DROP program a firefighter can collect his pension while still collecting a paycheck and earning future pension credit. The pension payments are placed in escrow. I was told that those payments can continue for 5 years, after which time the employee must retire.



135,197.98
126,592.00
123,641.63
122,420.45
121,302.94
124,965.91
119,715.45
119,267.34
118,181.83
117,422.93
109,684.92
117,100.54
114,687.88
111,397.60
110,819.75
110,510.34
112,652.47
111,898.94
111,801.36
107,456.14
103,755.60
110,544.29
110,184.08
106,147.41
104,896.82
105,832.58
109,016.74
105,114.37
103,744.59
103,700.02
105,353.86
99,726.91
106,881.57
102,952.57
104,717.81
98,263.15
102,588.94
102,040.75
98,145.82
100,632.23
98,665.52
94,230.56
100,950.84
101,745.75
98,689.83
96,476.24
93,279.59
95,142.32
91,437.72
92,431.41
91,113.66
91,992.04
90,736.65
93,242.04
90,698.80
89,450.81
95,548.39
90,097.18
93,658.31
95,753.06
96,645.54
95,026.84
96,688.45
94,679.20
92,593.72
92,928.27
92,079.83
95,627.60
88,468.47
92,586.74
89,240.61
88,177.19
92,926.03
93,424.63
92,001.32
95,384.28
91,776.52
93,246.88
91,904.43
91,647.57
91,752.56
95,882.61
90,329.02
91,305.55
90,927.37
92,584.28
92,629.61
92,359.18
91,145.67
91,776.96
92,477.42
92,133.59
89,813.98
93,177.71
92,190.58
89,566.54
90,251.27
85,687.46
91,216.03
89,401.86
91,863.79
90,989.46
90,055.49
92,355.92
90,557.33
91,698.59
90,721.08
85,083.73
88,469.31
88,795.65
84,417.98
90,142.23
89,739.28
90,502.36
88,685.35
87,198.38
90,906.43
90,907.99
88,120.99
89,276.96
88,843.45
89,336.54
89,003.01
90,782.54
86,538.56
86,424.02
88,683.81
83,398.96
87,782.48
87,899.75
87,955.23
86,121.86
86,084.93
86,184.73
82,646.54
85,708.12
79,414.09
85,492.15
82,112.72

[Danielle Masters]

Thanks for the info Bill. I guess you can make decent money in the public sector and the benefits aren't too bad either. And we wonder where all the money has gone.

[Bill Call]

... I guess you can make decent money in the public sector and the benefits aren't too bad either. And we wonder where all the money has gone.

I don't think most people realize how well public sector employees are paid. Parasite cities like Washington D. C. or Columbus can afford to be very generous to public employees, they just seize more money from fly over country. Most other cities must depend on their own resources to fund city operations.

Over the last 30 years government unions have used binding arbitration as a tool to wring more and more from local governments. A system designed to ensure fairness to the employee has degenerated into a government run spoils system. That system transfers money once used on infrastructure and development into a wage and benefit super fund.

Taxes continue to rise and yet less gets done.

The problem for communities like Lakewood is that employee wages and benefits are increasing faster than revenue. Each raise requires cutting infrastructure and development budgets. Deteriorating infrastructure and lack of development cause a further decline in population a further decline in development and ultimately a decline in revenue. The cycle feeds on itself.

Rising real estate values have allowed Lakewood to delay the day reckoning. With real estate values set to plateau or decline the revenue crisis will become acute. The 50% increase in the income tax rate proposed by the Mayor will not even be enough to cover the raises promised to City employees. Then what happens?

[Charyn Compeau]

One small point -

You start with an examination of 30 years and then interget a comment about taxes rising and nothing more being done for the incremental increase in tax dollars.

Some tax increases are necessary due to inflation and the resultant increase in goods and services.

Certainly we wouldnt feel it proper to pay our average employee 10k a year (or whatever the amount was 30 years ago) - and similarly the cost of gassing up the city vehicles and other direct putchases has increased as well.

This is not to say that your examination of the return for our tax dollar isnt necessary - just that there are things to keep in mind.

I would also submit to you that those numbers are misleading because they do include benefits but not all benefits and we have o way of knowing which benefits are included and which are not.

I would much prefer to see these types of things broken down by category with a comparison to private sector jobs included. Then we could really have an interesting debate!

But then again if wishes were horses....

Charyn

[Charyn Compeau]

One small point -

You start with an examination of 30 years and then interget a comment about taxes rising and nothing more being done for the incremental increase in tax dollars.

Some tax increases are necessary due to inflation and the resultant increase in goods and services.

Certainly we wouldnt feel it proper to pay our average employee 10k a year (or whatever the amount was 30 years ago) - and similarly the cost of gassing up the city vehicles and other direct putchases has increased as well.

This is not to say that your examination of the return for our tax dollar isnt necessary - just that there are things to keep in mind.

I would also submit to you that those numbers are misleading because they do include benefits but not all benefits and we have o way of knowing which benefits are included and which are not.

I would much prefer to see these types of things broken down by category with a comparison to private sector jobs included. Then we could really have an interesting debate!

But then again if wishes were horses....

Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

One small point -

Some tax increases are necessary due to inflation and the resultant increase in goods and services.



But then again if wishes were horses....

Charyn

Bill

To build on Charyn's point.

While the list looks like, OK pay. It would be interesting to see it in some sort of context.

How are these pays figured?

Doesn't the city offer incentives and pay raises based on education, time working, etc. If this is true, which I believe it is, and if this city is at the crossroads many wake to make it out to be, do we not want the smartest brightest people working for us?

Just curious.



.

[Bret Callentine]

do we not want the smartest brightest people working for us?

That is nice, but I don't necessarily want to be paying someone a higher salary to round up stray shopping carts just because they have a masters degree.

In private industry, furthering your education is a requirement for moving forward in your career, but it sometimes also necessitates that you advance to a new position.

I'm for job security, but if the choice is between keeping someone on the highest end of the pay scale or hiring someone new at a lower pay scale, I'd have to look long and hard at the extra value the existing employee is providing.

The raise should be a reward for your ability to do more, better, faster, not just a handout for staying on the job.

But I'm with Charyn, to make any sense of the numbers we would have to examine the entire spreadsheet of what they represent.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the city's budget?

[Jeff Endress]

Both Jim and Charyn offer interesting inquiries. But, I have another interesting question.

Bill likes to put forth numbers, and to criticize the pay levels as being too high. A lot of discussion regarding feeding at the public trough. But, here is my concern:

If city employees are overpaid, if teachers are overpaid, what would you suggest would be a proper compensation level? How would you determine that level? It's all well and good to set forth a concern over the extent of payroll, but that, in and of itself is a very hollow inquiry. What are appropriate levels of compensation and why?

Jeff

[Charyn Compeau]

Jeff:

The department of labor offers a wonderful tool that allows you to enter all of the job description, or the job standards if none exists, and your geographical location in order to determine the average wage for such positions in the area.

Here is a sampling:

Occupation Hourly Rate Yearly Avg

Financial managers $42.68 $88,774.40

Administrators, education and related fields $41.75 $86,840.00

Elementary school teachers, exc. postsecondary $37.91 $78,852.80

Lawyers $37.40 $77,792.00

Secondary school teachers, exc. postsecondary $35.68 $74,214.40

Administrators and officials, public administration $31.69 $65,915.20

Prekindergarten and kindergarten teachers, exc. postsecondar $30.77 $64,001.60

Police and detectives, public service $23.99 $49,899.20

Firefighting occupations $18.58 $38,646.40

Bus drivers $17.94 $37,315.20

Secretaries $15.89 $33,051.20

Receptionists $13.14 $27,331.20

Dispatchers $12.50 $26,000.00



This is a quick survey of the published average wages (most recent verified data in Dec 2004 so this is a couple years old even) for the Cleveland/Akron metro area. These are averages in the sense that they include all tenures and do not distinguish between various levels that may occur within positions.

This type of research would provide a good starting point for such discussions as it does reflect the average, and therefore reasonable expected, wages for the area. More specific data is readily available to those with the time and inclination to find it.

Please also note that these figures do NOT include any benefits data and are strictly based upon wage payments. Benefits may add anywhere from 10 to 20k to the value of the job and should be examined closely for their contribution to a complete compensation package.

HTH-
Charyn

[Jeff Endress]

Charyn

Appreciate the data. And I think that's part of my point. It is meaningless to simply throw out the numbers without a comparison to similar pay scales. It almost invites a citizen/taxpayer to make the comparison to their own salary/benefits and (perhaps) resent that their city employees are doing better, salary-wise. Reminds me of the Congregation that had a heated discussion about the purchase of a parsonage for the Pastor, which basically ended with a feeling of "why should I pay for my pastor (employee) to live in a nicer home than mine".... without an inquiry into the market forces at play.

Jeff

[Bill Call]

Administrators, education and related fields $41.75 $86,840.00

Elementary school teachers, exc. postsecondary $37.91 $78,852.80

Lawyers $37.40 $77,792.00

Secondary school teachers, exc. postsecondary $35.68 $74,214.40

Administrators and officials, public administration $31.69 $65,915.20

Prekindergarten and kindergarten teachers, exc. postsecondar $30.77 $64,001.60

Police and detectives, public service $23.99 $49,899.20

Firefighting occupations $18.58 $38,646.40

Bus drivers $17.94 $37,315.20

Secretaries $15.89 $33,051.20

Receptionists $13.14 $27,331.20

Dispatchers $12.50 $26,000.00

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Are you sure these are the numbers you want to discuss?

[DougHuntingdon]

Bill you may be interested in this.

This is what more accountable and transparent cities do, to use their own wording:

http://www.citywindsor.ca/000810.asp?id=2545

Look for the pdf link

Doug

[Jeff Endress]

Doug

Remember thatthese are in Canadian Funds....adjust for the exchange rate. Remember to that Canada has Nat'l Health Care...I don't know how our fine system would fit into the mix.

Jeff

[Charyn Compeau]

Bill:

It is a starting point (althought I am wondering if those figures reflect annualized number for teachers...)

These are not the perfect commparison numbers beucase they do cover this entiire metro region; however, it would be a very good place to start.

And while I might look more deeply into figures that you post, that doesnt mean that I would be unwilling to admit that our payroll figures are higher.

For example - perhaps we are spending 25% more than the area average for a dispatcher.

That may not mean that the dispatcher is overpaid. That would mean we need to ask WHY the rate is what it is . Perhaps that person has more responsibilities than others in the same category.

But if after examination we can find no reason for extreme discrepancies it comes down to is this person in this position worth it.

I dont fear the examination. I just want to make sure we compare apples to apples.

Charyn

[DougHuntingdon]

Jeff

The point was the TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY...not whether their city's workers are paid more or less than ours, not which country has a better hockey team or health plan, not whether or not the loonie is worth almost as much as the US Dollar www.xe.com

Do we have such transparency and accountability with the library? If so, please provide the link for our benefit. (I'm not doubting its existence.) Keep in mind, for comparison purposes, that the Lakewood Public Library does not include a woodcarving museum in the basement.

Note that obviously Canadian citizens still pay for city employees' healthcare, just not as directly as we do. There's no free breakfast, even if it includes Canadian bacon.

Doug